Extended Realities (VR, AR, MR)

PSA: Regarding buying a VR headset right now. (Updated)

Mama Looigi

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Sept. 28 2021

It is in everyone's best interest to avoid buying a headset right now.

Why?:
For the last few months, there has been patent after patent from Valve and Oculus for new VR headsets. Many third party companies are joining the VR industry and are working on releasing their own headsets. Oculus connect (The Oculus equivalent of a Nintendo Direct) is coming this October where they'll almost definitely be announcing a successor to the Quest 2, Valve has been filing patent after patent for over a year now for VR headset designs, new headsets are being prepared to be launched that are meant to be direct competitors to the Oculus Quest family. A lot of things are about to happen, and the VR industry is going to have an extremely exciting rest of 2021.

When should I start looking for headsets then?
The best time logically, would be after Q4 2021 passes. There is a 90% chance that by then, there will be something better than whatever you are currently considering.


That's all!
I am simply saying to not purchase a headset right now because there is a huge amount of announcements right around the corner.



* * *

Actually, one more thing regarding Facebook for now and for the future.
If you can't stand Facebook, if you absolutely hate it- then don't buy it. Wait and buy something else, you're just going to have to pay more. But for the average person, they don't give a shit about Facebook, they just want VR. This should be respected. Do not push your own morals on somebody and not let them enjoy that just because you don't like Facebook. If you said they were bad headsets, you'd be straight up lying anyway. Don't just immediately tell people not to buy them, let them see all the requirements and information and decide for themselves if they join the side of Oculus. There are people who won't care about privacy, and people who will only be able to afford Oculus headsets. We want more people to get in to VR, we can't push people away by having them look at their first headset, and start telling them all kinds of shit about stealing privacy.




Alright
Now I'm finished.
Thanks for reading.
 
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The Real Jdbye

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This is pretty much what I told someone the other day. There is just a lot happening in the VR space right now, and it's likely to be priced similarly to the current options, so it makes most sense to wait. But he didn't wanna wait, which I can understand. I mean I got the Reverb G2 because I didn't wanna wait for the DecaGear myself (though I had already pre-ordered the G2 and the DecaGear seemed a bit too good to be true so I was wary)
The thing with VR though is it improves at such a rapid pace you could be waiting for the next big thing for a decade or more. At some point you just have to decide that VR is good enough right now to spend your money. Also, a headset with better specs (higher resolution and refresh rate) is going to require more powerful hardware, and I'm already pushing the limits of what this one can handle with the G2.
It's safe to say though that it would be a bad time to buy an Index, considering how quickly the sticks wear out on that, hopefully the Index 2 will have improved sticks and also offer official replacement parts like they are doing with the Deck.
But it's just about as good a time to get a Quest 2 as ever. Nobody is going to beat that price.
 

Mama Looigi

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This is pretty much what I told someone the other day. There is just a lot happening in the VR space right now, and it's likely to be priced similarly to the current options, so it makes most sense to wait. But he didn't wanna wait, which I can understand. I mean I got the Reverb G2 because I didn't wanna wait for the DecaGear myself (though I had already pre-ordered the G2 and the DecaGear seemed a bit too good to be true so I was wary)
The thing with VR though is it improves at such a rapid pace you could be waiting for the next big thing for a decade or more. At some point you just have to decide that VR is good enough right now to spend your money. Also, a headset with better specs (higher resolution and refresh rate) is going to require more powerful hardware, and I'm already pushing the limits of what this one can handle with the G2.
It's safe to say though that it would be a bad time to buy an Index, considering how quickly the sticks wear out on that, hopefully the Index 2 will have improved sticks and also offer official replacement parts like they are doing with the Deck.
But it's just about as good a time to get a Quest 2 as ever. Nobody is going to beat that price.
Things do advance very quickly
Actually I think there’s a new and improved G2 model out now, or about to be out

If you wanna push your PC less, you can get the AMD FSR VR mod that works on pretty much any Unity game, it makes a really big performance difference

The “Index 2”

I really hope they do improve the build quality, it’s such a good headset. Only lacks in the durability and display department

I’d just advise not getting a Quest 2 until the Connect at the very least
 
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The Real Jdbye

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Things do advance very quickly
Actually I think there’s a new and improved G2 model out now, or about to be out

If you wanna push your PC less, you can get the AMD FSR VR mod that works on pretty much any Unity game, it makes a really big performance difference

The “Index 2”

I really hope they do improve the build quality, it’s such a good headset. Only lacks in the durability and display department

I’d just advise not getting a Quest 2 until the Connect at the very least
The G2 Omnicept? It's not for consumers though, it's kinda overpriced.
I didn't like openvr_fsr because the jaggies were super noticeable. And I can enable AA in the game but that comes with a performance hit too, so it's not ideal.

Yeah the Index headset seems great only the controllers are a bit lacking. They could improve the finger tracking, it's not reliable at all. And of course the aforementioned stick issues, plus the creaky triggers (not a huge issue but seems like an easy fix)
Index 2 should have higher resolution (at least 2160p but likely 2.5K or thereabouts to compete with the Vive Pro), maybe higher FOV? I guess we'll see. Hopefully wireless support, there's rumors that the next headset will be standalone which I don't mind as long as they support a proper wired DIsplayPort over USB connection instead of that streaming crap the Quest does. Adding DisplayPort over USB would've been so much better.

I don't think Facebook has a new headset coming out any time soon. They don't usually release new headsets that often and there's not a lot they could do to improve on the Quest 2 at this point, they would have to wait for more powerful SoCs. Maybe a slight revision with similar specs but higher FOV or other added features like face tracking is a possibility but I don't think they'd waste their effort making a slight revision, they'd rather put all ther work towards the next Quest model (which is likely a ways away, since the Quest 2 has not even been out that long)
I just don't think they'd put so much effort into making the Quest 2 the killer deal that it was if it's getting replaced soon anyway.

I don't thin
 
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Mama Looigi

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The G2 Omnicept? It's not for consumers though, it's kinda overpriced.
I didn't like openvr_fsr because the jaggies were super noticeable. And I can enable AA in the game but that comes with a performance hit too, so it's not ideal.

Yeah the Index headset seems great only the controllers are a bit lacking. They could improve the finger tracking, it's not reliable at all. And of course the aforementioned stick issues, plus the creaky triggers (not a huge issue but seems like an easy fix)
Index 2 should have higher resolution (at least 2160p but likely 2.5K or thereabouts to compete with the Vive Pro), maybe higher FOV? I guess we'll see. Hopefully wireless support, there's rumors that the next headset will be standalone which I don't mind as long as they support a proper wired DIsplayPort over USB connection instead of that streaming crap the Quest does. Adding DisplayPort over USB would've been so much better.

I don't think Facebook has a new headset coming out any time soon. They don't usually release new headsets that often and there's not a lot they could do to improve on the Quest 2 at this point, they would have to wait for more powerful SoCs. Maybe a slight revision with similar specs but higher FOV or other added features like face tracking is a possibility but I don't think they'd waste their effort making a slight revision, they'd rather put all ther work towards the next Quest model (which is likely a ways away, since the Quest 2 has not even been out that long)
I just don't think they'd put so much effort into making the Quest 2 the killer deal that it was if it's getting replaced soon anyway.
The Q2 actually has a lot of unused potential, they severely underclocked it though because they decided to only fit one measly fan in there, and any higher clock would’ve caused overheating.

I think they’ll keep the Quest 2 as their killer deal, and if they release a new headset, it won’t be incredibly cheap. It’ll be targeting the less casual VR fans or people who want to take the next step.
 

The Real Jdbye

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The Q2 actually has a lot of unused potential, they severely underclocked it though because they decided to only fit one measly fan in there, and any higher clock would’ve caused overheating.

I think they’ll keep the Quest 2 as their killer deal, and if they release a new headset, it won’t be incredibly cheap. It’ll be targeting the less casual VR fans or people who want to take the next step.
Maybe. Facebook's been neglecting that segment of the market for a long time though. They seem to be all in on affordable VR for the masses now. There hasn't really been a "high end" headset since the original Rift and that was only high end because it was the first of its kind. It could still happen though. I'd personally like to see what a headset from them targeted toward high end VR would look like.
 
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tech3475

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One thing to note, some places have started their Xmas returns period. So if buying as a gift, now could be an ok time to buy if you are concerned about potential launches.
 

The_Provider

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I was just thinking about getting an Oculus Quest 2 as soon as November hits. I'm going to watch that event tomorrow and think a little more before I go through with buying my first vr headset with the other things I would want in mind, thanks.
 
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MikaDubbz

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PSA: Do NOT buy a VR headset right now.

Fixed that for ya. Maybe one day VR will be the genuine future it's so promised to be. But for the foreseeable future, I see so little value in the prospect. Like, you spend one afternoon with VR, and barring an onslaught of must have experiences dropping soon here, that should really be all the VR experiences you need to witness firsthand for the time being. Give it another 5 or 10 years for both the hardware to progress and for a more solid selection of experiences actually worth playing to arrive; and maybe then it will be worth your time. But for now, I still just don't see enough there to convince gamers that it's the one and only way you need to play your video games.
 

Mama Looigi

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it's the one and only way you need to play your video games.​

See this is actually a bit of a misunderstanding a few people have
VR isn't meant to replace absolutely every other form of media, VR is being made to just be another medium for gaming and whatever else. Someone asked me once, "what would the point be in getting VR to play JRPGs? It wouldn't add anything to the experience"
And my response was... that those games weren't even made for VR, and that they shouldn't all be repurposed for that type of gaming. The end goal of VR is to be it's own thing, not to replace all other systems.

Also, there's quite a few worthwhile games to keep people coming back. It's just that everyone prefers different things. (Or they aren't doing a good job of searching for experiences)
 

MikaDubbz

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See this is actually a bit of a misunderstanding a few people have
VR isn't meant to replace absolutely every other form of media, VR is being made to just be another medium for gaming and whatever else. Someone asked me once, "what would the point be in getting VR to play JRPGs? It wouldn't add anything to the experience"
And my response was... that those games weren't even made for VR, and that they shouldn't all be repurposed for that type of gaming. The end goal of VR is to be it's own thing, not to replace all other systems.

Also, there's quite a few worthwhile games to keep people coming back. It's just that everyone prefers different things. (Or they aren't doing a good job of searching for experiences)
But that is part of my overall point. VR tries to position itself like it's a replacement for traditional gaming when it simply isn't. The quicker it embraces it's position as a side piece to traditional gaming, the quicker the zeitgeist will adapt to it actually having a place in modern culture. But for now, the medium so wants to somehow be that one and only place to game, while those of us with a proper understanding of the medium recognize that it likely will never actually be it's position in the gaming landscape, that it's frustrating that we even have to continue to deal with these needless growing pains. Can't we just skip to a decade from now where society has better recognized what place VR has in it, and we don't have to put up with these gasps for recognition every few months, as if VR is somehow going to truly replace traditional gaming.
 

Xzi

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VR tries to position itself like it's a replacement for traditional gaming when it simply isn't.
But it doesn't though. I've not seen a single advertisement to that effect, and I seriously doubt you have either. You need powerful gaming hardware to power the best VR experiences, so of course it's expected you'll use that hardware for traditional gaming as well.
 
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MikaDubbz

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But it doesn't though. I've not seen a single advertisement to that effect, and I seriously doubt you have either.
lol, advertisements are not what are influencing this perception here. Facebook buying up the first VR product to present itself for Two billion dollars, however, is one of those factors for sure that absolutely does influence that perception; it's not like anyone was trying to buy up Nintendo for even half as much when they were trying to make a name for console gaming back in the day with the NES/Famicom.
 

Xzi

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lol, advertisements are not what are influencing this perception here. Facebook buying up the first VR product to present itself for Two billion dollars, however, is one of those factors for sure that absolutely does influence that perception; it's not like anyone was trying to buy up Nintendo for even half as much when they were trying to make a name for console gaming back in the day with the NES/Famicom.
That might be something that's coloring your perception on this matter specifically, but most people do not see Facebook as some sort of authority when it comes to gaming. And even if they did, Facebook isn't trying to sell you VR as a replacement for all other types of gaming either. They're targeting a casual audience who are typically smartphone gamers.
 
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MikaDubbz

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That might be something that's coloring your perception on this matter specifically, but most people do not see Facebook as some sort of authority when it comes to gaming. And even if they did, Facebook isn't trying to sell you VR as a replacement for all other types of gaming either. They're targeting a casual audience who are typically smartphone gamers.
Authority or not, they invested 2 billion into the medium, believing it would be the next step forward for something. If you can support that, great, awesome. I can't. The thing they threw a ridiculous amount of money at, is far less impressive than the ushering in of traditional gaming, which no one threw even a fraction of as much money behind when it was just starting to put its feet on the ground.
 

Xzi

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Authority or not, they invested 2 billion into the medium, believing it would be the next step forward for something. If you can support that, great, awesome. I can't. The thing they threw a ridiculous amount of money at, is far less impressive than the ushering in of traditional gaming, which no one threw even a fraction of as much money behind.
Traditional gaming is already well-established, though. And buying out Oculus was more about buying out all the hardware patents, rather than anything having to do with games themselves. Recent attempts by big corporations like Google to enter the console race have fallen flat on their face, and attempts by Amazon to enter into game development/publishing haven't gone much better.

As much as I hate Facebook/Zuck, I still can't deny that they seized the right opportunity at the right time. They got in on the ground floor, and now they have a majority market share of VR. They can leverage that by selling to social media junkies (non-gamers), as well as casual gamers.
 
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MikaDubbz

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Traditional gaming is already well-established, though. And buying out Oculus was more about buying out all the hardware patents, rather than anything having to do with games themselves. Recent attempts by big corporations like Google to enter the console race have fallen flat on their face, and attempts by Amazon to enter into game development/publishing haven't gone much better.

As much as I hate Facebook/Zuck, I still can't deny that they seized the right opportunity at the right time. They got in on the ground floor, and now they have a majority market share of VR. They can leverage that by selling to social media junkies (non-gamers), as well as casual gamers.
I guess I don't get why VR gets a 2 billion dollar pass, while traditional gaming had to go through all those growing pains. Like if you're cool with VR, great, but I don't see why VR can't be judged for the 2 billion dollar investment that it was. It absolutely tried to be the next big chapter of gaming, and when that didn't quite work out, I see so many excuses and forgiving for the medium as if it didn't try to overtake the gaming landscape, when that's absolutely what it was trying to do, and failed so miserably at.

I have read in probably 4 or 5 different professional pieces of journalism over the last year alone that such and such innovation for the VR medium "brings us one step closer to Ready Player One." Am I the only one that not only is sick of this substance-less phrase, but also hopes to God that that isn't the avenue we're actually traversing down? I hope most gamers recognize that this isn't the ideal future for gaming that one shitty book and movie want so badly for us to believe in.
 

Xzi

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I guess I don't get why VR gets a 2 billion dollar pass, while traditional gaming had to go through all those growing pains. Like if you're cool with VR, great, but I don't see why VR can't be judged for the 2 billion dollar investment that it was. It absolutely tried to be the next big chapter of gaming, and when that didn't quite work out, I see so many excuses and forgiving for the medium as if it didn't try to overtake the gaming landscape, when that's absolutely what it was trying to do, and failed so miserably at.
I'm not giving Facebook a pass. If anything, their buyout of Oculus has been detrimental to the growth and improvement of VR overall, since they're using Facebook accounts and verification as a form of DRM, they're buying up exclusives, and they're pushing weak standalone hardware. There are two reasons why they paid so much for Oculus: Palmer Luckey was already close friends with Mark Zuckerberg, and Facebook saw it as their best (possibly only) opportunity to get a foot in the door in the gaming market. On that latter point they were probably correct, because traditional gamers want nothing to do with them.

Again though, Facebook is far from the only player in the VR gaming market, even if they have a majority market share. Sony, Valve, HP, and HTC are all still developing products, along with a bunch of other smaller startups. Additionally, most VR developers are lucky to get the same amount of funding/notoriety as indie devs in the traditional gaming space.

As for why traditional gaming had to go through growing pains, that should be obvious. It was a completely brand new medium, nobody had the slightest clue what good game design was in the beginning. Some people got lucky and hit a lot closer to the mark than others. And plenty of people made millions in the 70s/80s arcade craze anyway, well before obscene wealth hoarding was acceptable by law/society in general.
 
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MikaDubbz

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They are not the only player in the VR game, that's true. But we'd have to be pretty damn naive to pretend that they haven't been trying to position it as the next big chapter for gaming as a whole. And that goes far beyond Facebook. The VR World really wants VR in general to overtake gaming. Or at least, that is what they wanted. It does seem clear that we're moving beyond this "only VR" vision for the future of gaming. But we'd have to be super stupid and naive to pretend that there wasn't a strong recent push for gaming to move to be only VR.

I appreciate VR and recognize it will always have a side-place in the gaming landscape, but I'd also be lying to myself and you, if I said that there wasn't a recent clear attempt for VR to try and overtake the gaming landscape as a whole. I'd argue it was in vain from it's inception, but that doesn't make the effort any less obvious.
 

Xzi

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They are not the only player in the VR game, that's true. But we'd have to be pretty damn naive to pretend that they haven't been trying to position it as the next big chapter for gaming as a whole. And that goes far beyond Facebook. The VR World really wants VR in general to overtake gaming. Or at least, that is what they wanted. It does seem clear that we're moving beyond this "only VR" vision for the future of gaming. But we'd have to be super stupid and naive to pretend that there wasn't a strong recent push for gaming to move to be only VR.

I appreciate VR and recognize it will always have a side-place in the gaming landscape, but I'd also be lying to myself and you, if I said that there wasn't a recent clear attempt for VR to try and overtake the gaming landscape as a whole. I'd argue it was in vain from it's inception, but that doesn't make the effort any less obvious.
I just honestly have no idea where you're getting that idea from or what makes it so "obvious" in your mind. Facebook is targeting mobile gamers/non-gamers. Valve is targeting PC gamers. PSVR is targeting Playstation gamers. Not a single major player in the VR market expects their target audience to go "VR-only," and most of them even recommend you limit VR time to 1-2 hours per session. They all simply want to attract more people to their individual ecosystems, regardless of which type of gaming appeals most to them.
 
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