PS3 Hackers able to sign code (and more)!

SifJar

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thedicemaster said:
sifjar: there is still a way for them to block homebrew, although it's tedious work.
they just have to make a whitelist of all currently existing legit ps3 software, and block anything signed with the old(current) key that isn't on this whitelist.
not that it would help them much for the ps3's that are already at people's homes, because for those some hacker would just make a firmware update without the whitelist.
True, I guess that's possible, didn't think of that. I'd suck as a technical adviser for Sony
tongue.gif


Anyhow, considering fail0verflow can sign pretty much anything, they'd be able to sign a firmware update without that and problem solved
smile.gif
And I'm pretty sure they can sign stuff really early on in the boot process, before Game OS is even loaded, along the lines of BootMii for the Wii. They can update the earliest updateable portion of the boot process. Because no updateable code can be run before that, it can't check a whitelist, and MUST boot that signed code. Whatever way you look at it, the PS3 is blown wide open now.
biggrin.gif
 

person66

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SifJar said:
My guess is that decent games for the PS3 will sadly trail off now. Considering it will most likely be SO easy to pirate games from now on, in a way that cannot be prevented with updates, why would companies keep developing games? At least with the Wii, Nintendo can try to prevent piracy with each update, blocking exploits etc., but in this case there is no exploit as such, nothing to block.
There are still decent Xbox games aren't there? And pirating will be a pain on the ps3, seeing as some games could be up to 50gb in size.

I guess I have mixed feelings about this, I'm excited for all the homebrew and such, but I hope that people who cheat online will get banned, no one likes playing with cheaters.
 

SifJar

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person66 said:
SifJar said:
My guess is that decent games for the PS3 will sadly trail off now. Considering it will most likely be SO easy to pirate games from now on, in a way that cannot be prevented with updates, why would companies keep developing games? At least with the Wii, Nintendo can try to prevent piracy with each update, blocking exploits etc., but in this case there is no exploit as such, nothing to block.
There are still decent Xbox games aren't there? And pirating will be a pain on the ps3, seeing as some games could be up to 50gb in size.

I guess I have mixed feelings about this, I'm excited for all the homebrew and such, but I hope that people who cheat online will get banned, no one likes playing with cheaters.
It'll be much easier to pirate than Xbox I'm fairly sure, no hard-mod needed here.
 

nl255

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person66 said:
SifJar said:
My guess is that decent games for the PS3 will sadly trail off now. Considering it will most likely be SO easy to pirate games from now on, in a way that cannot be prevented with updates, why would companies keep developing games? At least with the Wii, Nintendo can try to prevent piracy with each update, blocking exploits etc., but in this case there is no exploit as such, nothing to block.
There are still decent Xbox games aren't there? And pirating will be a pain on the ps3, seeing as some games could be up to 50gb in size.

I guess I have mixed feelings about this, I'm excited for all the homebrew and such, but I hope that people who cheat online will get banned, no one likes playing with cheaters.

That just means it will be easier to rent and rip rather than download. No big deal as you can get a 2-3 day rental fairly cheap most places.
 

mercluke

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SifJar said:
Someone asked at the end of the talk "Where does the number come from?" and their response was "We're quite sure, but we think the southern hemisphere"
tongue.gif

no, they asked where the psjailbreak came from...

also
CODE//chosen by fair dice roll
//guaranteed to be random
 

kaputnik

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Rydian said:
http://www.osnews.com/story/22073/Why_N:wtf:...im_Sony_Answers


The last quote in the article is kinda interesting:

QUOTEPlease be assured that SCE is committed to continue the support for previously sold models that have the “Install Other OS” feature and that this feature will not be disabled in future firmware releases.

Is it coincidental that they changed their mind about that right after Geohot released his exploit? Otherwise I'd say it's a quite strong indicium suggesting that they removed OtherOS support because of their fear of exactly what has happened now with PSJB and its clones, and nothing else.
 

DeltaBurnt

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ThePowerOutage said:
First off, you guys do realise that piracy will wait a while? I mean, failoverflow aren't releasing their stuff for a bit and it will take a while for people to reverse or replicate the steps for piracy.
Second, the presentation kept in pushing the point that all PS3 out AT THE MOMENT are vunrble, implying that new PS3s may come with this parched.

Not really...we already have many different homebrews that allow for piracy. There just have to be some edits and signing the packages (or signing something that will install packages that aren't signed).

I'm not saying we'll be pirating by the end of the year, but it won't take another year.
 

jalaneme

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SifJar said:
jalaneme said:
doyama said:
2) The hack cannot be 'patched' by any means by firmware updates

are you 100% of that statement, you should know what sony is like with their firmware updates, it's a cat and mouse game for them!

Yes it is 100% true. It is impossible for Sony to change their private key, it would render every piece of software to date useless. They could add a second key I guess, but to maintain support for current software, they would have to retain the ability to run code signed with the old key, and therefore homebrew could still be signed with the old key, and this would be entirely pointless. They can NOT stop code signed with the current key from running, that would break everything currently in existence for the PS3. There is no way for them to patch it. If they could, of course they would, and it'd be cat and mouse until the PS4 is out, but they can't. Especially this late in the PS3's life. If it were a few months after its release, perhaps they could try and recall all units and software, but even then, it'd be a complete pain in the ass. Now, there is no chance.

My guess is that decent games for the PS3 will sadly trail off now. Considering it will most likely be SO easy to pirate games from now on, in a way that cannot be prevented with updates, why would companies keep developing games? At least with the Wii, Nintendo can try to prevent piracy with each update, blocking exploits etc., but in this case there is no exploit as such, nothing to block.

yeah they said that about the jailbreak and look what happened to that, but anyways i can't wait for the homebrew scene to flourish i won't be pirating on the ps3 i will still buy games all i want is XBMC to be ported and i can then retire my old xbox 1 plus i hope to see other useful stuff out of this aswell, lets just hope sony don't intervene this time. (we can only hope)
 

Midna

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mercluke said:
SifJar said:
Someone asked at the end of the talk "Where does the number come from?" and their response was "We're quite sure, but we think the southern hemisphere"
tongue.gif

no, they asked where the psjailbreak came from...

also
CODE//chosen by fair dice roll
//guaranteed to be random
That's from xkcd, mate
random_number.png
 

--=ZerO=--

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thedicemaster said:
they just have to make a whitelist of all currently existing legit ps3 software, and block anything signed with the old(current) key that isn't on this whitelist.

They could blacklist the unwanted homebrew too. Nintendo does this on the Wii. But it's pointless... Sony is f***** up!
tongue.gif
 

DarkSzero

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thedicemaster said:
sifjar: there is still a way for them to block homebrew, although it's tedious work.
they just have to make a whitelist of all currently existing legit ps3 software, and block anything signed with the old(current) key that isn't on this whitelist.
not that it would help them much for the ps3's that are already at people's homes, because for those some hacker would just make a firmware update without the whitelist.
I was thinking that this could be a way for Sony to fix this mess, however I just came to the conclusion it won't work.
Sony has to make a patch for this new version with the new public key and the whitelist and everything else. Since we have complete control about everything now, we could modify this patch so it still has the RNG bug, providing what we need to discover the new private key
 

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BortzANATOR said:
Hahaha here comes the pirate ship.
Honestly has the PS3 really fallen to the hackablily level of the Wii?
I would say MORE so, since with the Wii you at least have to use an exploit of some kind to run code in the first place, if you actually have the PS3's keys though you can simply sign the software and install whatever you want, assuming I understand this correctly..
 

Trygle12

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Nope... this is going to have dire consequences for the free PSN system.
From a simple application of an easily obtainable cheat device combined with a free online play network means that there will be very little stopping the griefers and the cheaters online. I am not sure of Sony has had a method for banning PS3's but it will probably be futile with the amount of access given from the hack.

Had Sony had a bit better encryption maybe then their entire system wouldn't be under such a risk.

Sony had better ramp up security measures... but right now it's a daunting task. They already have one of the biggest nukes on their security.


PSN games and the PSN online games are the biggest things at risk right now.
I'd doubt many future pirates have a Blu-Ray burner ready to go in the event that you can (will) burn Blu-ray games for the PS3.

The Wii and 360 had pretty sizable leads for their market to take a hit in the long run. The Wii had a decent lead along with a mainly casual centric based market. This is also why I feel there is less of a "Hardcore market" but I have no evidence to back that up.

The 360 had a year head-start and requires hard-modding and a paid subscription model to fully enjoy the system. Hacking is limited to those that wish to mod their 360 and those that are willing to risk being banned from Xbox Live.

The PS3 had the least marketshare. Had the least cheaters. Now it has nothing. All the nifty features from before will be ripped to shreds (Ehh... on second thought... Maybe not "ripped to shreds" and more "severely stunted".

Free PSN is going to be affected by this, probably be made more tedious and less user friendly.(Worse case scenario is that they start charging money to play online.)
Countless updates for legitimate users that will do nothing more than waste time. (Guaranteed or double your wasted time back!)
PSN games are going to be the hardest hit when piracy fully comes out. Those are small games and fully reside in the HDD, meaning that those games will require no special hardware to pirate. (If my understanding is correct, the files themselves require some modification due to how the PS3 associates files from other users. But since these keys have been broken, it probably won't need much.)

PS3 is going to be taking a heavy, heavy hit.
...and it's all Sony's fault. This is such an odd feeling. I've never been this disappointed with a system being hacked.


I'm glad for the home-brew, but I am saddened by the amount of vulnerabilities that will make the rest of the functions take a huge hit. Might as well take the good with the bad as we all wait for the inevitable.


I mean we all saw it coming... but I never thought it would be as big as this.
 

Elaugaufein

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What is with the doomsaying over hacks ? There are now all of 0 completely piracy secure consoles this generation. When things started all of them were secure. Its still a level playing field. If game makers want to abandon the PS3 its not like there's a secure system for them to move too (the closest thing is the 360). And I say this is someone who buys games even though I have a bunch of hacked systems (I like the convenience and having emulators is pretty nice too), I'm aware enough to know that if I want more games I like I need to buy the current ones that I like.

About the only real problem is online cheaters (which I admit is bad, cheating in online games (without prior agreement from all parties) is just poor form*).

* In all honesty I don't actually care about it personally, I pretty much play only Turn-based RPGs of which maybe 1 in every 50 has multiplayer, and maybe 1 in every 10 of those has multiplayer thats is either necessary for completion or not completely identical to in game battles just verse other people anyway), but I still don't like stomping all over someone else's fun for no reason.
 

Trygle12

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jalaneme said:
Trygle12 said:
(Worse case scenario is that they start charging money to play online.)

based on what? why do you think they will charge for online?

The money would attempt to be a deterrent. When people have something they invest in, they are less likely to take a risk with it.
A pay system will also require authentication and a method of distinguishing PS3s and user accounts reliably(if done correctly).

It would also recoup the losses from having a sudden spike of people on the PSN playing more games. This last bit is assuming that piracy becomes rampant.

No one knows how rampant piracy will be or how Sony will react...

...but I think it's clear that ... for Sony at least... they are going to start feeling queasy.
 

jefffisher

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everyone is forgetting that those guys don't support piracy and they probably wont release the actual signing method, who knows how long until someone who actually wants piracy and cheating figures the same thing out.

the main concern should be people being able to resign retail games to run from burnt discs on unmodded systems and selling them to unwary suckers.
 
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