1. britain4

    OP britain4 GBAtemp Regular
    Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Messages:
    250
    Country:
    Hey guys

    Got a few 60gb PS3s now that have never been YLOD repaired, and I’ve removed the IHSs on and done the thermal paste. All run comfortably under 60c on both chips in GTA5 at 35% ish fan speed when set using Webman.

    Also have my main, reballed one I’ve been using for a couple of years now.

    Common knowledge is that these get the YLOD from running too hot and the solder balls cracking - are they still likely to eventually get the YLOD even running at 60 instead of 70s - 80s like an untouched one? Anyone ever had one fail (that wasn’t reflowed) running at these temps?

    Anyone ever had a reballed one with lead solder go?
     
  2. pure3d2

    pure3d2 Member
    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2016
    Messages:
    13
    Country:
    United States
    The solder balls don't crack. That's a BS assumption made by people without a background in engineering years ago that people just keep repeating and parroting.

    Consoles reballed with leaded solder still fail after a few months to a year.

    The issue is the bad NEC TOKIN capacitors near the XELL and RSX chips (4 on the top and 4 on the bottom of the board, 8 total).
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  3. DinohScene

    DinohScene Feed Dino to the Sharks
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2011
    Messages:
    19,973
    Country:
    Antarctica
    darkangel5000 and pure3d2 like this.
  4. smf

    smf GBAtemp Psycho!
    Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    3,768
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Except nvidia did have issues at that time which required them to change video chips on many PC based systems due to thermal shock and they had to fix the problem first. I'm not saying that there isn't a problem with capacitors as well, but it's not a smoking gun of "newer gpu's don't have the problem, so it must be the capacitors".
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  5. DinohScene

    DinohScene Feed Dino to the Sharks
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2011
    Messages:
    19,973
    Country:
    Antarctica
    360 is plagued by the heat issues as well. the solderballs crack after repeated heat/cooling cycles.
    So yeh, lead free solder does indeed have something to do with it.

    As for the PS3, if after a reball, the console still YLODs, it's usually the caps or a far more serious problem like a dead RSX etc.
     
  6. smf

    smf GBAtemp Psycho!
    Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    3,768
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    My understanding is it's the substrate to the carrier that is often the problem, reballing just masks that.

    Keeping the temperature constant is one way round it. I had an 8600GT in a laptop and that died when it was about 4 years old, I had it replaced and the new one has lasted ever since.
     
    pop13_13 likes this.
  7. pure3d2

    pure3d2 Member
    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2016
    Messages:
    13
    Country:
    United States
    Are you referring to nVidia's "bad bumps" fiasco? I wasn't aware that the bad bumps affected the RSX. The bad bumps were on their 65nm and 55nm chips, not their 90nm chips (RSX in the PS3 phat). Source: https://semiaccurate.com/2010/07/11/why-nvidias-chips-are-defective/

    These bumps are not the same as the solder balls. They're the tiny (100 microns thick) solder balls which connect the die to the PCB substrate on a flip-chip.

    It was in fact the newer chips which had this issue, which nVidia had to spend about $200 million for replacements.
     
    pop13_13 likes this.
  8. DinohScene

    DinohScene Feed Dino to the Sharks
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2011
    Messages:
    19,973
    Country:
    Antarctica
    I did modify both the 360 and PS3 models that I got to have a more adequate airflow in the console haha.
    Stock design is rubbish.
     
  9. pop13_13

    pop13_13 Advanced Member
    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2020
    Messages:
    60
    Country:
    Slovakia
    And you will just temporarly fix this by heating it...

    But I still don't get it, why do you need a reball, if cracked solder can be fixed by melting it and letting it solidify again.
     
  10. smf

    smf GBAtemp Psycho!
    Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    3,768
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    It's probably most effective applying heat from underneath the cpu & that requires you to remove the chip from the motherboard and reball it.

    AFAIK It's like a sandwidth. You have something like heat spreader, paste, wafer, balls, carrier, balls, motherboard. I think it's impractical to reball the wafer directly.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  11. britain4

    OP britain4 GBAtemp Regular
    Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Messages:
    250
    Country:
    I forgot all about this thread! I have been reading recently about the situation with the caps on these causing the YLOD. Very interesting stuff and the cap fix looks totally doable.

    Wonder how many of these have been thrown out over the years over a red herring instead of a relatively easy permanent fix.

    Unsure if the 360 RROD issues are caused by the same thing or are they actually the BGA or flip chip at fault?
     
    pop13_13 likes this.
  12. pure3d2

    pure3d2 Member
    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2016
    Messages:
    13
    Country:
    United States
    iirc, 360 RROD was caused by bad solder balls (they lowered QA standards to get as many units out as possible--remember it took a good 6 months before you could go to a store and pick up a 360?). Louis Rossmann says it's because the 360's nVidia's flip-chip had issues.
     
    pop13_13 likes this.
  13. SundayWarrior

    SundayWarrior GBAtemp Regular
    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    109
    Country:
    Russia
    Old X360 have different issue - chip detachment from the substrate. Original ps3 good console, only NEC token is problem (and thermal paste under ihc ofcourse).
    Next revision ps3 fat with low bild cost not so good.

    Ps. Change fan to cechl model - most effective and silent
     
    pure3d2 likes this.
  14. pop13_13

    pop13_13 Advanced Member
    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2020
    Messages:
    60
    Country:
    Slovakia
    Wasn't the GPU from ATI?
     
  15. pure3d2

    pure3d2 Member
    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2016
    Messages:
    13
    Country:
    United States
    Oh yeah you're right. ATI was in the 360's GPU and nVidia was in the PS3's RSX.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted
Loading...

Hide similar threads Similar threads with keywords - delidding, lifespan,