Homebrew Possibility of Sonic 3 and Knuckles in jEnesisDS?

[Azoth2090]

I think I may know of how to get S3&K to run. If there are any rom hackers familiar with the dis-assembly of Genesis roms, feel free to ask and see if we can get this running. I'm fairly sure it's not a 'hardware' problem, it's indeed just a size issue, so I think if you can disassemble S3&K and scrap all of the unnecessary info from the rom, specifically the Competition mode, level layouts from it and it's music, I believe the rom should be small enough then to run in the emulator.

 

[KazoWAR]

Also, if JenesisDS was ever updated to use Slot-2 RAM, it could just load the larger ROMs to that.

 

[Hero_Of_Fate]

I doubt JenesisDS will ever be updated, though. As we saw, they hired the guy who made it to do the emulation for Sonic Classic Collection. Probably told him to cut the development and they'd pay him handsomely if he let them use it.

 

[Azoth2090]

Also, if JenesisDS was ever updated to use Slot-2 RAM, it could just load the larger ROMs to that.


QUOTE(Herf_Fate @ Mar 4 2010, 11:33 PM) I doubt JenesisDS will ever be updated, though. As we saw, they hired the guy who made it to do the emulation for Sonic Classic Collection. Probably told him to cut the development and they'd pay him handsomely if he let them use it.

I said nothing about an update, just finding a way to scrub the ROM to Sonic 3 and Knuckles.

 

[Omega_2]

IIRC, Kazo, didn't you try something like that, scrubbing/trimming the rom?

 

[Azoth2090]

Well, it's very possible, cause I managed to run this earlier.

 

[Rayder]

I tried a bunch of various versions of S&K 2/3, none worked for me.

 

[Azoth2090]

Because that's not a clean rom, it's the S3K engine planted into Sonic 2, with stripped options, level seclect, music, 2P mode, I can guarantee stripping the competition mode from Sonic 3K would let it run on jEnesis.

 

[Omega_2]

then that's clearly hacking and not 'clearing out' useless data

 

[granville]

There was a hack of Sonic 3 and Knuckles that sought to eliminate the redundant data. The person got it below 3.5MB. Not sure where it went, it was on some sonic hacking site. I don't think it was ever completed.

 

[Juanmatron]

Sonic Classic Colection.

 

[injected11]

Because that's not a clean rom, it's the S3K engine planted into Sonic 2, with stripped options, level seclect, music, 2P mode, I can guarantee stripping the competition mode from Sonic 3K would let it run on jEnesis.

Was that done with a patch floating around somewhere, or did you make the alterations yourself? I loved Sonic 2 + Knuckles, and would really appreciate a patch link if it exists.

 

[laifuthegreat]

Sonic Classic Colection.

Actually, for some reason, jENESISDS runs the sonic games BETTER than classic collection. IT'S THE SAME EMULATOR SLIGHTLY MODIFIED. I thought they would modify it to make it BETTER! They only had to play one engine with it (which was slightly modded for each game), so they could optimize it. Instead, the framerate is slower on classic collection.

 

[RupeeClock]

Sonic Classic Colection.

Actually, for some reason, jENESISDS runs the sonic games BETTER than classic collection. IT'S THE SAME EMULATOR SLIGHTLY MODIFIED. I thought they would modify it to make it BETTER! They only had to play one engine with it (which was slightly modded for each game), so they could optimize it. Instead, the framerate is slower on classic collection.

FYI, Sonic Classic Collection is a discrete DSi game.
It doesn't announce it, but the game will emulate better when played on a DSi system. And it actually has to be a retail cart, not on a flashcart.

 

[monkat]

Sonic Classic Colection.

IT'S THE SAME EMULATOR SLIGHTLY MODIFIED. I thought they would modify it to make it BETTER! They only had to play one engine with it (which was slightly modded for each game), so they could optimize it.

I declare shenanigans. Unless jEnesisDS was released open-source under the BSD license, Sonic Classic Collection would also have to have been open source, as well as free to the public.

It is not in any way the same emulator. Both emulators are designed to run the same type of code, but they are not the same. It was a shame that the quality wasn't up-to-par, but that's life sometimes. It was probably a half-assed attempt to get a quick buck that failed, that's all.

 

[granville]

It is the same emulator. The author of JenesisDS is even credited in the staff list option on the main menu. Look for Stephen Dittrich as head programmer on that. That's the same person as Lordus, the programmer of JenesisDS.

There are a few key differences in the latest JenesisDS and SCC-

1- SCC fixes the sprite/background priority issues seen occasionally
2- in SCC the special stages in Sonic 2 and 3K no longer appear as a glitchy mess
3- in SCC, the Lava Reef boss scrolls correctly and isn't obscured by the lava anymore
4- in SCC, the sound effects and music aren't emulated at all, but each individual track and effect is held in its own file when you unpack and look at the rom data. It's streamed via the DS hardware now instead of being inside the rom emulated. This is why the game required a 64MB cartridge even though the entire Genesis Sonic game collection only takes up a couple of megabytes
5- large rom support which allows you to play S3K and S2K.
6- SCC has slightly different looking scaling. Still looks like crap, but is a bit better

I would surmise the speed loss to be something to do with the new features. No one knows for sure. But there is no doubt that it is the same emulator updated and packaged as a commercial game. There is overwhelming proof that it's the same thing. And Lordus never released the emulator open source IIRC. Even if he did, he has the right to withhold later versions.

About 2 years ago, i talked to Lordus but then he mysteriously disappeared. We all thought he just moved on with life or something, but when SCC was announced, it was a heavy suspicion that SEGA just contracted him to develop for them. It turned out we were right. You don't need any more proof than his name in the credits. After that, it's obvious the game is running on the same emulator slightly updated.

 

[YayMii]

6- SCC has slightly different looking scaling. Still looks like crap, but is a bit better

A few other points:
-in SCC, the HUD is fixed to the top-right of the screen
-in SCC, the horizontal scrolling works differently. It seems to follow Sonic (Go to the very left of a level. Move right, and move back. You'll notice the screen slowly scrolls, but the original doesn't scroll there).


Just a question: Is SCC actually faster on a DSi (using an actual cartridge)? And does the actual cartridge (on a DS phat or DS lite) run faster than a flashcart?

 

[Overlord Nadrian]

Is SCC actually faster on a DSi (using an actual cartridge)? And does the actual cartridge (on a DS phat or DS lite) run faster than a flashcart?

It runs faster on a DSi if you're using the retail cart. I don't know if it runs faster on a regular DS with a retail cart, but I suppose not.

 

[PoopaTroopa]

It is the same emulator. The author of JenesisDS is even credited in the staff list option on the main menu. Look for Stephen Dittrich as head programmer on that. That's the same person as Lordus, the programmer of JenesisDS.

There are a few key differences in the latest JenesisDS and SCC-

1- SCC fixes the sprite/background priority issues seen occasionally
2- in SCC the special stages in Sonic 2 and 3K no longer appear as a glitchy mess
3- in SCC, the Lava Reef boss scrolls correctly and isn't obscured by the lava anymore
4- in SCC, the sound effects and music aren't emulated at all, but each individual track and effect is held in its own file when you unpack and look at the rom data. It's streamed via the DS hardware now instead of being inside the rom emulated. This is why the game required a 64MB cartridge even though the entire Genesis Sonic game collection only takes up a couple of megabytes
5- large rom support which allows you to play S3K and S2K.
6- SCC has slightly different looking scaling. Still looks like crap, but is a bit better

I would surmise the speed loss to be something to do with the new features. No one knows for sure. But there is no doubt that it is the same emulator updated and packaged as a commercial game. There is overwhelming proof that it's the same thing. And Lordus never released the emulator open source IIRC. Even if he did, he has the right to withhold later versions.

About 2 years ago, i talked to Lordus but then he mysteriously disappeared. We all thought he just moved on with life or something, but when SCC was announced, it was a heavy suspicion that SEGA just contracted him to develop for them. It turned out we were right. You don't need any more proof than his name in the credits. After that, it's obvious the game is running on the same emulator slightly updated.

Wow. That is really awesome, and I did not know that. Thanks for showing me this, granville!

I wish I got a lucky break with Sega.

 

[Slyakin]

It is the same emulator. The author of JenesisDS is even credited in the staff list option on the main menu. Look for Stephen Dittrich as head programmer on that. That's the same person as Lordus, the programmer of JenesisDS.

-Snippy Snip Snip-

About 2 years ago, i talked to Lordus but then he mysteriously disappeared. We all thought he just moved on with life or something, but when SCC was announced, it was a heavy suspicion that SEGA just contracted him to develop for them. It turned out we were right. You don't need any more proof than his name in the credits. After that, it's obvious the game is running on the same emulator slightly updated.

Wow, Lordus got contracted to Sega? Amazing! I wonder if they threatened to arrest him...