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[POLL] U.S. Presidential Election 2016
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Voting for someone you don't want to be president is wasting a vote.
Hear, hear. If one has any preference between Trump and Clinton, then it's a binary choice between those two candidates.
See above.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/11/29/us/30abortion-clinic-violence.html
See, it's because of disgusting cases like this that America needs to control its boarders as who gets it. It's not "Christianophobia", it's having control. Entirely different.
The US are pretty much ruined and other countries are going the same route unless they take a stand.
While no less tragic, that's still only 11 deaths over a 22 year period. Crazed Muslims matched that toll when there were four terrorist attacks within a single week in Germany last July.
That's language for you. Though I thought tolerance was synonymous with allowing, not accepting. I tolerate that behaviour, as in, I'm not wanting to actively dissuade it. I'm intolerant of that behaviour, as in, I want to actively dissuade it. I mean, I hear people say "I tolerate it, but I don't like it". Gives a sense of "I'm being patient and understanding to that particular thing", yeah? Though there is that extra baggage of judgement that's usually meant when calling someone "intolerant" that isn't necessarily there in that definition. hmm...anywho, sorry for the side-tracking, I just enjoy discussing language.
Last edited by osaka35,
@Lacius By "making the decision to immigrate unwillingly" I meant that they were forced to flee from their home country for whatever reason. They could've stayed in their homes and possibly die in a skirmish or they were downright chased out of their homes, so they made the decision under pressure.
Whether the story is a hoax or not is not for me to judge, it was reported by prominent papers in the UK, although upon closer inspection it is very likely that this might be some stupid troll printing out leaflets to incite racial tension - there's apparently a 4chan thread suggesting that that's the case, but who can you really believe on the Internet at this point?
As for adapting versus adopting, I live in the UK where you get to hear story after story about a clashes due to racial tension, and the blame is on both sides. I see racists doing their racist spiel, I also see muslims doing their muslim spiel. I don't expect them to throw away their culture, I expect them to follow the law of the land, and that is not always the case, which rapidly builds resentment. What they do in their own homes is entirely up to them - that's none of my business. That being said, shared spaces should be treated as wholely secular.
My take on this is very simple - I have nothing against muslims, so long as they live peacefully with their neighbours and integrate with their communities. This often isn't the case, not in the UK and not in the U.S., from what I'm seeing, and it's not just muslims - it's everybody. The fault is on both sides and the solution is somewhere in the middle. Muslims aren't the first to cause racial tension, you mention it yourself.
Take the example of ghettos. Racial segregation still ripples across time even today - like attracts like, people live in small, isolated and homogenous communities and as such perpetuate certain behavioural patterns which aren't always good. There's a reason why ghettos have higher crime rates, and it's not because "blacks live there", it's because that's ghetto life. They have less employment opportunities, lower standard of life, lower level of education and all the bad role models you could think of. The model of "getting somewhere" is dealing drugs, and since drugs are illegal, there are only two ways "gangstas" can end - in prison or dead, be it due to getting shot by a cop or due to black on black violence and gang warfare. There's a reason why there is no such thing as an "old gangsta" - it's because you get shot or locked up. This in turn leads to broken families, and broken families raise broken children. The U.S. hasn't even broken that vicious cycle yet, and you've had half a century to deal with it - what chances do you think you have with integrating an even more different culture into the fold?
There is a large divide between how radical muslims and westerners see the world, and that gap needs to start closing. A racist Brit will look at a muslim and think "terrorist", a radical muslim will look at a British woman and think "harlot" - that's just the way it is. I am very fortunate to work in an environment where people of many different ethnicities that have managed to integrate work together, but I have also seen the opposite - poorer neighbourhoods with strong lines of division based on race, and it's not a pretty sight. How to solve it is beyond my competence, but I suppose that time is our biggest ally - with each passing generation we'll learn how to co-exist better.
As for the extreme right, I think we're having the wrong political conversation in the world today. I would like to believe in some degree of innate human goodness. Each side of the political spectrum, whether we believe it or not, wants to improve the country it's from - we necessarily have to give it that benefit of the doubt. I might not come across this way very often, but I honestly believe that whatever ideals you represent, you represent them because they could lead to some form of good - to your community, your country, if you're greedy it might be yourself, but in general people don't do things that their moral barometer indicates as evil - that would make them psychopaths. We cannot have a healthy political conversation until we acknowledge that fact and stop thinking of each other as enemies of the state. I *hate* the left, I think most left-wing ideas are utopian and counter to human nature, but I acknowledge that the left believes what it believes because they think it's good for all of us. That idea isn't prevalent in today's climate, and that's damaging.
I hate to bring it up because it always derails discussion, but Nazi Germany wasn't established because one generation of Germans consisted of psychos. They were fed up of being poor as dirt and vulnerable after WW1, they felt pressure of embargoes and reparations under which they couldn't get up and they lashed out, willingly. They became monsters because the situation called for it, they honestly believed it was the right thing to do, at least initially. Nobody is born hateful or racist, those ideas are fed, and I would like to know where they're coming from, because there is an underlying cause. There is some bone of contention that we can't see right now that causes this, and maybe a 100 years from now it will be obvious, but we need to get there faster than that. I don't want to think that the alt-right exists because they're insane - I want to know what they're really saying, what's the actual problem that caused them to be the way they are that they maybe don't know how to verbalise or aren't aware of.
Whether the story is a hoax or not is not for me to judge, it was reported by prominent papers in the UK, although upon closer inspection it is very likely that this might be some stupid troll printing out leaflets to incite racial tension - there's apparently a 4chan thread suggesting that that's the case, but who can you really believe on the Internet at this point?
As for adapting versus adopting, I live in the UK where you get to hear story after story about a clashes due to racial tension, and the blame is on both sides. I see racists doing their racist spiel, I also see muslims doing their muslim spiel. I don't expect them to throw away their culture, I expect them to follow the law of the land, and that is not always the case, which rapidly builds resentment. What they do in their own homes is entirely up to them - that's none of my business. That being said, shared spaces should be treated as wholely secular.
My take on this is very simple - I have nothing against muslims, so long as they live peacefully with their neighbours and integrate with their communities. This often isn't the case, not in the UK and not in the U.S., from what I'm seeing, and it's not just muslims - it's everybody. The fault is on both sides and the solution is somewhere in the middle. Muslims aren't the first to cause racial tension, you mention it yourself.
Take the example of ghettos. Racial segregation still ripples across time even today - like attracts like, people live in small, isolated and homogenous communities and as such perpetuate certain behavioural patterns which aren't always good. There's a reason why ghettos have higher crime rates, and it's not because "blacks live there", it's because that's ghetto life. They have less employment opportunities, lower standard of life, lower level of education and all the bad role models you could think of. The model of "getting somewhere" is dealing drugs, and since drugs are illegal, there are only two ways "gangstas" can end - in prison or dead, be it due to getting shot by a cop or due to black on black violence and gang warfare. There's a reason why there is no such thing as an "old gangsta" - it's because you get shot or locked up. This in turn leads to broken families, and broken families raise broken children. The U.S. hasn't even broken that vicious cycle yet, and you've had half a century to deal with it - what chances do you think you have with integrating an even more different culture into the fold?
There is a large divide between how radical muslims and westerners see the world, and that gap needs to start closing. A racist Brit will look at a muslim and think "terrorist", a radical muslim will look at a British woman and think "harlot" - that's just the way it is. I am very fortunate to work in an environment where people of many different ethnicities that have managed to integrate work together, but I have also seen the opposite - poorer neighbourhoods with strong lines of division based on race, and it's not a pretty sight. How to solve it is beyond my competence, but I suppose that time is our biggest ally - with each passing generation we'll learn how to co-exist better.
As for the extreme right, I think we're having the wrong political conversation in the world today. I would like to believe in some degree of innate human goodness. Each side of the political spectrum, whether we believe it or not, wants to improve the country it's from - we necessarily have to give it that benefit of the doubt. I might not come across this way very often, but I honestly believe that whatever ideals you represent, you represent them because they could lead to some form of good - to your community, your country, if you're greedy it might be yourself, but in general people don't do things that their moral barometer indicates as evil - that would make them psychopaths. We cannot have a healthy political conversation until we acknowledge that fact and stop thinking of each other as enemies of the state. I *hate* the left, I think most left-wing ideas are utopian and counter to human nature, but I acknowledge that the left believes what it believes because they think it's good for all of us. That idea isn't prevalent in today's climate, and that's damaging.
I hate to bring it up because it always derails discussion, but Nazi Germany wasn't established because one generation of Germans consisted of psychos. They were fed up of being poor as dirt and vulnerable after WW1, they felt pressure of embargoes and reparations under which they couldn't get up and they lashed out, willingly. They became monsters because the situation called for it, they honestly believed it was the right thing to do, at least initially. Nobody is born hateful or racist, those ideas are fed, and I would like to know where they're coming from, because there is an underlying cause. There is some bone of contention that we can't see right now that causes this, and maybe a 100 years from now it will be obvious, but we need to get there faster than that. I don't want to think that the alt-right exists because they're insane - I want to know what they're really saying, what's the actual problem that caused them to be the way they are that they maybe don't know how to verbalise or aren't aware of.
Do you think bombing them into the stone age, dragging them into conflicts and the crusades have anything to do with that? We've been f*cking with them since we've met them. Or was this a rethorical question?
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Not unless you live in a state where either one could win but in most states one of the two can't win so the point is mostly moot.
There is no such thing as "hebrew muslims" technically, unless you mean Saudi Arabia's bullshit, but yea, Israel is the reason all of this is happening.
Give it 20 years. The Afterthoughts of everything wrong with the world will be gone by then.
In 20 years will be too late, and i will be too old. In the next 20 years i cant imagine how many things will be ruined by these criminals. The people of ALL countries must fight now for freedom. Is for foolish to wait now that a criminal afterthoughts for his sins. If a people kill a member of your family you like to wait his afterthoughts of his action? This cant give back the lost people, cant give him back his life. No, waiting mean only that we follow their game!
All the jews are coming down with skin cancer, which is quite humorous. Apparently the movement to occupy Palestine with people from Poland and Russia is not so successful.
That's the funniest conspiracy theory I've ever heard, and I rarely encouter ones I've never heard before. Do you mean Polish Jews or just Polish people? Because believe me, nobody's in a rush to move to Israel where I come from. The country is over 95% Catholic for God's sake.
It's not a conspiracy theory. The People living in Israel today were not born there. They kind of just shipped in for the free money. Isn't that much obvious? Even their Prime Minister had to change his name twice because Netai wasn't made up and silly sounding enough. No, better make it Netanyahu, you Polish freak... that'll convince them!
His real name is Milikowski btw.
Last edited by Glyptofane,
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