[POLL] Have you had Covid-19 before?

[Lacius]

This is you interpreting data in favor of vaccines.
This is also you interpreting data in favor of vaccines.

I'm acknowledging scientific facts.

In both situations you approach the facts from different angles, to make it fit.

I don't go into situations with a preconceived notion in mind. My conclusions are 100% based on the evidence. You don't seem to understand that science doesn't have an agenda. The anti-vax movement, however, does.

I'm not pro-vaccine; I'm pro-science. The science just happens to back up the safety and efficacy of the vaccines.

A preferred (safer*) alternative to some, not all.

Getting vaccinated against COVID-19 is objectively and demonstrably safer than not getting vaccinated.

They are effective if you just ignore boosters, and the fact that they haven't fixed anything.

The vaccines have saved over 1.1 million American lives so far. If you are unvaccinated, you are significantly more likely get infected with COVID-19, and you are more likely to experience severe COVID-19 symptoms and death. The existence of boosters doesn't change anything.

Did you invest in Pfizer or any other of the companies manufacturing MRNA-based injections?

I'm not the one with an agenda. I accept the science wherever it goes, since I care if my beliefs are true.

 

[tabzer]

I don't go into situations with a preconceived notion in mind.

Well, excuse me for not believing you.

You don't seem to understand that science doesn't have an agenda.

Science doesn't have an agenda. Science is not telling me to get vaccinated or not to get vaccinated.

The companies that sponsor/fund scientific experiments and statistical reports to yield outcomes in support of their products do. That's a reality.

I'm not the one with an agenda.

Everyone has an agenda. I'm still wondering if you bought stock and are trying to rationalize your participation in the racket.

 

[Lacius]

Science doesn't have an agenda. Science is not telling me to get vaccinated or not to get vaccinated.

You are right, but science is telling you that the vaccines are safe and effective. The science is telling you that you are putting yourself and others at significantly higher risk by not getting vaccinated.

Everyone has an agenda.

The closest thing to an agenda I have is the pursuit of truth.

I'm still wondering if you bought stock and are trying to rationalize your participation in the racket.

Your question only serves as a distraction (nobody should be surprised that you're trying to change the topic), so I've ignored it. I see the vaccines as an issue of public health, not a "racket." For you to argue they're part of a racket, you need to provide evidence that they aren't as safe and effective as we know they are, and we're still waiting for you to do so.

 

[sley]

Yeah had it 2 times, luckily im young and also vaccinated so symptoms were very mild.
The first time was before I got vaccinated and I had a high fever for one night, the next day I already felt much better.
The second time was when I recently got the Omikron variant but I guess that since my vaccination was 4 months ago the symptoms were almost nonexistent.

About the topic above me:
Based on my experience and countless science reports vaccines are much safer than getting the virus itself and instead of arguing and throwing assumptions I'd try to get a healthy discussion going about what the statistics actually mean.

 

[Lacius]

Based on my experience and countless science reports vaccines are much safer than getting the virus itself and instead of arguing and throwing assumptions I'd try to get a healthy discussion going about what the statistics actually mean.

Looking at the most recent data I could find (January 1, 2022), which is out of Switzerland, we can see the following:

• Approximately 88.4% of those who died of COVID-19 in Switzerland around January 1 were unvaccinated.
• Approximately 9.7% of those who died from COVID-19 in Switzerland around January 1 were fully vaccinated but hadn't received a booster.
• Approximately 1.8% of those who died of COVID-19 in Switzerland around January 1 were vaccinated and boosted.

These numbers mean someone who is unvaccinated is over 48 times more likely to die from COVID-19 than someone who is boosted. Someone who is fully vaccinated but not boosted is more than 5 times more likely to die from COVID-19 than someone who is boosted.

I think the numbers speak for themselves, but some people care more about being anti-vax than about what the science has to say.

I would have used numbers from the United States, since that's where I'm from, but I couldn't find much that was as recent as the data from Switzerland, and I wanted to be fair.

 

[Ferris1000]

I never had Covid and let me tell you a Secret how to avoid getting infected.

1. Avoid going partying
2. Always wear your Mask when you go outside and change it daily.
3. Avoid going outside/shopping for no reason
4. If you go shopping keep your Distance (A lot of People think that wearing a Mask is enough and doesn't keep the Distance)
5. Wash your hands.
6. Always think that everybody else is infected (triggers to be more careful)
7. Don't trust anybody who says that he is healthy.

If you still manage to get infected do one thing: >Stay at Home<

Being vaccinated doesn't Protect you from getting and spreading Covid, don't let tell anybody tell you otherwise.
A lot of People think that if they are Vaccinated they are fine and don't have to care about anything.
If someone ask me, the vaccinated People are more Dangerous than People that are not, because they thing that they are Protected.

 

[Lacius]

I never had Covid and let me tell you a Secret how to avoid getting infected.

1. Avoid going partying
2. Always wear your Mask when you go outside and change it daily.
3. Avoid going outside/shopping for no reason
4. If you go shopping keep your Distance (A lot of People think that wearing a Mask is enough and doesn't keep the Distance)
5. Wash your hands.
6. Always think that everybody else is infected (triggers to be more careful)
7. Don't trust anybody who says that he is healthy.

If you still manage to get infected do one thing: >Stay at Home<

These are all good pieces of advice, but getting vaccinated should be near the top of the list, if not at the very top.

 

[Ferris1000]

I'm not telling anybody to get or get not Vaccinated but the Vaccine doesn't Protect you, it only lowers the chance to Die

 

[Lacius]

I'm not telling anybody to get or get not Vaccinated but the Vaccine doesn't Protect you, it only lowers the chance to Die

The vaccine decreases one's chances of getting infected. If you're less likely to get infected, then you're less likely to spread the disease. If you suffer a breakthrough infection, however, you can still spread the disease about as much as someone who was unvaccinated.

Probably most importantly, getting vaccinated is very likely to reduce the severity of your illness if you get infected. It will significantly reduce the odds of ending up in the hospital and/or dying.

Getting vaccinated should be at the top of your list. You shouldn't take a stance of "I'm not going to mention the vaccine one way or the other" just because some people have made the issue political or controversial.

Being vaccinated doesn't Protect you from getting and spreading Covid, don't let tell anybody tell you otherwise.
A lot of People think that if they are Vaccinated they are fine and don't have to care about anything.
If someone ask me, the vaccinated People are more Dangerous than People that are not, because they thing that they are Protected.

The vaccine is not 100% effective, but it does reduce one's odds of getting infected and spreading the disease. As you've already mentioned, it also reduces one's odds of getting seriously ill from the disease.

The people who are vaccinated are definitely not "more dangerous" than the unvaccinated.

 

[sarkwalvein]

Looking at the most recent data I could find (January 1, 2022), which is out of Switzerland, we can see the following:

• Approximately 88.4% of those who died of COVID-19 in Switzerland around January 1 were unvaccinated.
• Approximately 9.7% of those who died from COVID-19 in Switzerland around January 1 were fully vaccinated but hadn't received a booster.
• Approximately 1.8% of those who died of COVID-19 in Switzerland around January 1 were vaccinated and boosted.

These numbers mean someone who is unvaccinated is over 48 times more likely to die from COVID-19 than someone who is boosted. Someone who is fully vaccinated but not boosted is more than 5 times more likely to die from COVID-19 than someone who is boosted.

It is exactly at this point, with these numbers, that I would say the booster should be a decision/option like the seasonal flu vaccine; not something virtually imposed. I myself would still get the booster, but I don't think taking measures that segregate people for not getting the booster is justified anymore, I consider the social divide and unrest that comes from such measures worse than the alternative (of not letting some people to have somewhat increased risk and having instead increased social unrest).

PS: but of course these numbers should make you get complete vaccination at least once.

 

[Ferris1000]

@Lacius
I think you don't understand what I meant.

Most People are just Stupid, that's why a lot of People think that if they are vaccinated they don't have to wear a Mask or keep the Distance anymore and go back to their old life.

Every time I go shopping for Food People do the Covid Sandwich, They don't keep their Distance and cough.
Sometime I have the feeling that I'm invisible.

My Point is, being Vaccinated is not an excuse to feel save and get others in danger

BTW: checking the Numbers of infected and Death Rate: The Death Rate goes Down but the Infection Rate is the Same if not Higher (Depending on the Country)

 

[sarkwalvein]

BTW: checking the Numbers of infected and Death Rate: The Death Rate goes Down but the Infection Rate is the Same if not Higher (Depending on the Country)

Yep, that's the way it's been lately. Lot of infections, low hospitalization number, low death numbers, most hospitalization and fatalities coming from unvaccinated.

And yes, people are not as careful as before... I am not sure it is due to them getting vaccinated though, I think they are just fed up, this has a psychological toll.

 

[Lacius]

@Lacius
I think you don't understand what I meant.

Most People are just Stupid, that's why a lot of People think that if they are vaccinated they don't have to wear a Mask or keep the Distance anymore and go back to their old life.

Every time I go shopping for Food People do the Covid Sandwich, They don't keep their Distance and cough.
Sometime I have the feeling that I'm invisible.

My Point is, being Vaccinated is not an excuse to feel save and get others in danger

BTW: checking the Numbers of infected and Death Rate: The Death Rate goes Down but the Infection Rate is the Same if not Higher (Depending on the Country)

You and I are in agreement that a lot of people aren't being careful anymore when they should still continue to wear masks, etc., and being vaccinated isn't an excuse to not use common sense, but the unvaccinated crowd seems to be more egregious about it than the vaccinated crowd. You remember the maskholes from before the vaccines became available? Those are largely the people who are unvaccinated and overwhelming hospitals now.

It is exactly at this point, with these numbers, that I would say the booster should be a decision/option like the seasonal flu vaccine; not something virtually imposed. I myself would still get the booster, but I don't think taking measures that segregate people for not getting the booster is justified anymore, I consider the social divide and unrest that comes from such measures worse than the alternative (of not letting some people to have somewhat increased risk and having instead increased social unrest).

PS: but of course these numbers should make you get complete vaccination at least once.

Regardless of how people feel about vaccine requirements (I'm generally for them, depending on the logistics), the vaccine should be something that everyone chooses to do. Being unvaccinated now in 2022 can't be described as anything other than selfish, not to mention counterproductive.

 

[Ferris1000]

the biggest Problem is that the Government, they are lying to People and now they are trying to force People to get vaccinated.

The Government should have act early on but they did not, just remember People like Trump who said: "Covid is a Hoax it's a Scam" and then he wanted People to take a Drug which actually was a Scam.

I Remember when Covid just started to Spread, I called the Health Origination in the Country I live and ask them if they provide everybody with Free N95 Masks but they told me that it's enough to just wear a cloth on my Face.
I asked them if they are Stupid or what, but they said that the Doctors Recommend so which is completely BS and I knew it because I read a lot about Covid early on to protect myself.

Now they are making Stupid Rules that come and go like tested, vaccinated or cured to go to certain shops or events and if a big sale comes they dismiss the Rules because "Money is more important" which makes me very angry.
But they also allowed Festivals and Concerts to Continue again.

I have the bad feeling that Covid will never Stop, unless everybody realize that we have to act, now.

 

[Lacius]

the biggest Problem is that the Government, they are lying to People and now they are trying to force People to get vaccinated.

The Government should have act early on but they did not, just remember People like Trump who said: "Covid is a Hoax it's a Scam" and then he wanted People to take a Drug which actually was a Scam.

I Remember when Covid just started to Spread, I called the Health Origination in the Country I live and ask them if they provide everybody with Free N95 Masks but they told me that it's enough to just wear a cloth on my Face.
I asked them if they are Stupid or what, but they said that the Doctors Recommend so which is completely BS and I knew it because I read a lot about Covid early on to protect myself.

Now they are making Stupid Rules that come and go like tested, vaccinated or cured to go to certain shops or events and if a big sale comes they dismiss the Rules because "Money is more important" which makes me very angry.
But they also allowed Festivals and Concerts to Continue again.

I have the bad feeling that Covid will never Stop, unless everybody realize that we have to act, now.

The government should require vaccination for certain privileges, like being able to use public transportation. There's a precedent for this, and these kinds of vaccine mandates have been shown to reduce the spread of disease.

Before omicron, cloth masks were shown to offer a reasonable degree of protection (even 50% efficacy was significant), and more importantly, mask mandates were shown to reduce the spread of disease.

 

[sarkwalvein]

The government should require vaccination for certain privileges, like being able to use public transportation. There's a precedent for this, and these kinds of vaccine mandates have been shown to reduce the spread of disease.

Before omicron, cloth masks were shown to offer a reasonable degree of protection (even 50% efficacy was significant), and more importantly, mask mandates were shown to reduce the spread of disease.

The recommendation should always have been FFP2/N95, or at least the reasons, advantages and disadvantages should have been clearly communicated.

When we even have a Maskgate here, you perhaps can understand people get annoyed with the government and their lack of transparency.

 

[The Catboy]

99% of the people who died right after getting vaccinated "cannot be evaluated" of it being due to the vaccine due to it possibly being a coincidence yet 110% of people who died while having coronavirus in their system are all corona deaths. This is an obvious double-standard.

Hi, please provide a source to this claim.

 

[stanna]

 

[stanna]

https://www.citizensjournal.us/gove...5ptBL.KFy2W8ctZjencg-1642435945-0-gaNycGzNCFE

 

[stanna]

Looks like SOME people have started to realise what's going on.

https://web.archive.org/web/2022011...-in-england-to-be-thrown-away-as-demand-falls