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  1. I'm NOT a Trump supporter - I accept the general consensus that Biden won the 2020 election fairly

    194 vote(s)
    67.1%
  2. I am a Trump supporter - I *refuse* Biden's presidency claim, Trump actually WON

    29 vote(s)
    10.0%
  3. I am a Trump supporter - I acknowledge that Biden won, but *THE LEFT CHEATED* so it's illegitimate

    14 vote(s)
    4.8%
  4. I'm a Trump supporter but I believe in the general consensus that Biden won the 2020 election fairly

    14 vote(s)
    4.8%
  5. Other (don't care / don't waste my time with stupid polls)

    38 vote(s)
    13.1%
  6. 289 voter(s)
  1. Xzi

    Xzi GBAtemp's Resident Plok Expert
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    No, but you will possibly see him try to flee the country to avoid criminal charges, and you will definitely see him in court regardless. Even if nothing at all comes from the federal level, New York alone is ready to stick a pineapple up his ass, metaphorically speaking.

    And I'm guessing Trump approved more, or you would have cited his numbers too. :lol:

    The only people who continue to insist Obama was divisive are racists. The dude was possibly the most moderate, centrist president in history. He walked on eggshells the entire time as the first black guy in the White House. Not to mention: all these nitpicky things you've cited were what conservatives liked most about Obama at the time. I can't say for certain if Obama did all of it to appease them, but I can say for certain that is the reason he did some of it.
     
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  2. Foxi4

    Foxi4 Cynical Absurdist
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    That's a bizarre fantasy, not to mention an unlikely one.
    He did, a lot more in fact, but he never ran on the "peace" platform - quite the opposite. The difference here is that he didn't go on military holidays across the Middle East with the intention to topple governments - he was finishing what his predecessor started, decisively.
    Obama was the race-baiter-in-chief and one of the most divisive presidents in recent history. Societal divisions only deepened under his watch - America was far more unified before he came into office than when he left it. Trump inherited this problem, he didn't cause it.
     
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  3. Xzi

    Xzi GBAtemp's Resident Plok Expert
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    Exactly, and that's how we can easily predict he would've started another long-term war in his second term. Well, that...and the fact that he asked about his authority to start bombing Iran's nuclear facilities, AFTER he had already lost the election. Dude is just another neocon like GWB, but he needed his first term to grift as much money from taxpayers as possible.

    By...being black? I don't remember him once mentioning race, outside of perhaps black history month or events like Trayvon Martin.

    You sure do have a selective memory. How exactly was birtherism not divisive? How exactly is racism not the problem here, and at what turn did Trump fail to tap into that racism?
     
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  4. Foxi4

    Foxi4 Cynical Absurdist
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    You have no evidence of that, it's a maybe at best.
    Oh, there are so many examples of Obama and his administration leveraging race to achieve political objectives. I seem to remember his Justice Department dropping cases of voter intimidation when the New Black Panther Party was involved. Obama has always maintained that the country was divided along racial lines, and the policies of his administration reflect that.

    Obama's warm relations with Cuba led to large-scale repression of Cuban dissidents, resulting in over 9000 (ha!) arrests in Castro's regime. Legitimising the regime must've been very popular with Cuban Americans, I'm sure - that explains why they started siding with Trump all of a sudden when Biden entered the race this year. Obama even upgraded their interest sections to full-blown embassies - how nice. If Trump is "best buddies" with Putin, Obama was BFF's with Castro.

    At the same time, he refused, or made it as difficult as humanly possible, to enforce immigration policy when it comes to the border with Mexico, culminating in DACA. The result is a giant mess at the border - Joe knows who built the cages, and so does Obama.

    You're also correct about cases of alleged persecution of black suspects by the police. Obama was always first in line to shed a tear on television whenever a tragic incident had occurred, even before all facts were known. He created an illusion of the police ganging up against black people when statistics don't support the existence of any substantial bias in encounters with officers.

    He was partisan, not a moderate - it was his way or the highway. If his ideas couldn't get support, he famously said that he had a phone and a pen, and was happy to use both. Trump isn't innocent in this regard, but it was Obama who normalised the practice of the executive overstepping its bounds.

    The notions of "systemic racism" or "unconscious bias" gained prominence under his watch, not Trump's, and there's little evidence to support either. According to surveys around 60% of Americans agree that race relations have suffered, not improved under Obama, and I tend to agree, but that's a large subject better-suited for another thread. With that said, a Biden presidency looming over the horizon forecasts a return to the same failed policies of pandering and race-baiting.
    Birtherism was always about the eligibility to run for office and never about Obama being black. According to Biden, he was a "good black" anyway - I quote, "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man" - truly a wordsmith-elect. The DNC absolutely used race as a cudgel during Obama's presidency, any criticism of the President was always met with the lazy excuse of "well, you're saying that because you're a racist". As far as I'm concerned, Obama could've been a purple unicorn, that wouldn't change my opinion of his presidency, which was poor.
     
    Last edited by Foxi4, Nov 24, 2020 - Reason: Improved formatting
  5. gregory-samba

    gregory-samba GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    Obama treated blacks like they were inferior and basically told them they were entitled to other peoples things. It's about the same as the Liberals claiming minorities couldn't figure out how to obtain an ID, register to vote and show up to the polls to vote. That's racist as fuck. Obama just treated minorities like they were owed something and couldn't possibly fend for themselves without Government assistance.
     
  6. Xzi

    Xzi GBAtemp's Resident Plok Expert
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    Oh of course, everybody remembers Obama's famously all-black cabinet and black vice president! :rolleyes:

    Fundamentally different nations with fundamentally different circumstances. The US had been sabotaging Cuba for decades, it was long past time to normalize relations with the country, and Castro was on his death bed. Putin only wants the collapse of the USA.

    Oh how horrible, you mean he didn't immediately separate and deport every family that tried to cross the border for any reason?

    Incorrect, Republicans started pushing the unitary executive theory hard during the GWB years, both Obama and Trump simply ran with the power they were given. The difference was in the way they used it. Most of Trump's executive orders were objectively malicious, things like allowing the hunting of endangered species or the drilling of oil on national parks land. All he ever did was destroy what others had built, and he was most envious of the things Obama had done in particular.

    It never would have gained the slightest bit of traction if Obama wasn't black, and you know it. Matter of fact, Trump tried it on Ted Cruz during the primary and everybody just laughed it off, though he did of course eventually still lose (because he's Ted Cruz).
     
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  7. Foxi4

    Foxi4 Cynical Absurdist
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    Why would you undercut your own argument? You've just said that Trump briefly showing birther sentiment in regards to Obama was racist and immediately followed it up by saying that Trump was asking the same questions in regards to Cruz, who's very clearly white. I don't care about "traction", that's not what we were talking about.
     
  8. Xzi

    Xzi GBAtemp's Resident Plok Expert
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    It was used on Obama first because he knew he'd find an audience willing to accept the claim as fact, even with no evidence. He didn't care if it worked on Cruz or not, there's practically no fear of the "other" when it comes to Canadians.

    Coupled with the whole "Mexican caravan" thing, it was all just the Southern Strategy reborn once again.
     
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  9. Foxi4

    Foxi4 Cynical Absurdist
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    Not a very good save IMO, but you do you. Seems to me like race didn't play a role at all, but people see what they want to see in allegations like this.
     
  10. smf

    smf GBAtemp Psycho!
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    Reasonable people do that. Treating things as fake news because they don't support your argument is a sign of weakness. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really affect the argument.
     
  11. Foxi4

    Foxi4 Cynical Absurdist
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    It does, actually. In fact, it dismantles it completely.
     
  12. smf

    smf GBAtemp Psycho!
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    Not especially, only if you don't understand human behavior. Racists don't always act racist & they can do the same things towards other people for other reasons.
     
  13. Xzi

    Xzi GBAtemp's Resident Plok Expert
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    And how many white presidents did Trump have the opportunity to accuse of being born outside of the US? It's not like he had any less evidence to base those accusations on than he did for Obama. Your assertion seems to be that it's, "just coincidence," and that's a massive stretch at best.
     
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  14. Foxi4

    Foxi4 Cynical Absurdist
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    I prefer to use the term "politically expedient". You keep cutting the branch you're sitting on - you just said that you have a sample size of 1, which makes it completely non-representative. That's neither here nor there though, your explanation simply doesn't seem convincing to me.
     
  15. smf

    smf GBAtemp Psycho!
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    How many white supremacist groups does Trump need to support before you accept it?

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...tral-park-five-us-election-2020-b1426977.html
     
    Last edited by smf, Nov 24, 2020
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  16. Foxi4

    Foxi4 Cynical Absurdist
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    One would be a good start. Throughout his presidency he's repeatedly denounced racism of any kind, as well as violence. I also don't seem to remember him endorsing any particular organisations by name, not even his most vehement supporters like the Proud Boys. I do remember both Obama and Biden endorsing black supremacists though, including the New Black Panthers and the race hustlers from the Nation of Islam who have very little to do with actual Islam - Louis Farrakhan or Al Sharpton, to name two controversial figures.
     
    Last edited by Foxi4, Nov 24, 2020
  17. Xzi

    Xzi GBAtemp's Resident Plok Expert
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    You're right, it's a moot point. Firstly, because Trump was already soundly defeated as a result of his divisiveness, and secondly, because it feels like trying to convince you that water is wet. By now, you've seen Trump supporters' three favorite flags on proud display nearly as many times as I have, I'm sure. There might've been some sliver of ambiguity about their views on race in 2016, but by the time this year rolled around they had been full mask off for a while (spreading hatred, stupidity, and a virus all at once).
     
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  18. CPG

    CPG dingus
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    i believe kanye won, yall are just mean :(
     
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  19. Foxi4

    Foxi4 Cynical Absurdist
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    Ye 2024, we'll get'em next time.
     
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  20. smf

    smf GBAtemp Psycho!
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    Trump has said lots of contradictory things, it's part of his strategy to make everyone think he stands what what they want. It's why he ends up going to church once a year for a photo opportunity.
     
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