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  1. I'm NOT a Trump supporter - I accept the general consensus that Biden won the 2020 election fairly

    194 vote(s)
    67.1%
  2. I am a Trump supporter - I *refuse* Biden's presidency claim, Trump actually WON

    29 vote(s)
    10.0%
  3. I am a Trump supporter - I acknowledge that Biden won, but *THE LEFT CHEATED* so it's illegitimate

    14 vote(s)
    4.8%
  4. I'm a Trump supporter but I believe in the general consensus that Biden won the 2020 election fairly

    14 vote(s)
    4.8%
  5. Other (don't care / don't waste my time with stupid polls)

    38 vote(s)
    13.1%
  6. 289 voter(s)
  1. Foxi4

    Foxi4 Cynical Absurdist
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    When you dismantle something, you tend to end up with base elements. I doubt the intention was to completely and utterly shut down heavy industry over the course of the next 30 years, but that ended up being the result. Neither here nor there though, it has little to do with Trump.
     
  2. smf

    smf GBAtemp Psycho!
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    It was always going to happen, if you want low inflation then you need to make things cheaper and rightly or wrongly you do that by finding a poor country with lower working standards and wages and paying them to do it (or importing illegal immigrants from a poor country and paying them barely nothing).

    The US did that too but Trump wants to reverse it, which sounds great on the surface but it's likely going to bankrupt the US if he actually achieves it.

    It needs someone who can handle nuance, not someone like Trump
     
    Last edited by smf, Nov 20, 2020
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  3. notimp

    notimp Well-Known Member
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    Here is a potentially foolproof way to forge the next election outcome.

    There are some forms of epaper, that could be inductively charged, and maybe even programmed to change the ballot number in a set time interval.

    If those numbers dont get checked against a register (as Team Giuliani suggests), but are only spot checked for a 'freak' bunching up of one number, have your guy at the voting booth, feed that into a vote scanner every 10 minutes.

    Have an emergency switch that deletes the content of the epaper, and let it auto destroy after 12 hours.

    And the only problem left to be solved in hardware is, how to get the chip and the transistors on the epaper small enough for them to fit through the document scanner.

    Also, why isnt the document scanner one way, with a lock and a bag attached at the bottom?

    Hm... Some of those schemes could be juicy, if you just add a little creative thinking.. ;) I mean with all the vote checkers in the US not knowing what they are supposed to do or not...

    (Does it scale though...? ;) Lets say one person does that every 10 minutes for 12 hours = 72 votes. Yeah, not bad. :) edit: But doesnt scale enough. (Made a slight calculation error the first time around. ;) ))

    edit -Ideally have the entire sheet made of paper and only the number part replaced by eInk. Would probably look better. And it doesnt need to look totally convincing to the machine if they are storing OCR data only. ;) (They probably also store an image.. ;) )

    And you are still up against statistical sanity checks.

    edit: Here - proof of concept for your next voter fraud scheme ;) :

    ---

    Did some more theory crafting on that. ;)

    Problem laid out by Team Giuliani was, that in some districts, the same voting ballot numbers would show up 'ten minutes after the first time - they showed up' in logs, which to them indicated, that ballots might have been fed in loops - multiple times. Which according to them also lined up with them recording 'voting precessing spikes' around 4 am in the morning. ;) (At least in some cases.. ;) )

    Why ten minutes though? This might be connected to the second conspiracy they spun up, which was, that 'entire batches' were recycled.

    So scanners probably are one way - with a bag and a lock attached at the bottom - but it was alleged, that they were 're-fed' after 10 minutes.

    But that would lead to the entire batches ballot numbers at least showing up twice - which would be highly suspect, and immediately point at the issue.

    If only 'some' ballots 'showed up for a second time' according to their numbers, its probably an OCR error, that propagated down to the logs? :)

    Hey - when they dont give any specifics, its actually fun, to puzzle together the rest in your mind...

    *hint**hint* ;)
    ----------------

    Only fact check with details I've found is this: https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/11/19/fact-checking-the-trump-campaigns-wild-press-conference/

    Which is highly suspect. Basically says not to worry - its a clerical issue. And doesnt differentiate between undercount and overcount. If you have overcount vales of 40-200% (and 40% apparently happened in some districts before) - I'd like to know the reason for it. But as Giuliani only dropped it as a byline - amongst 50 other more easily debunkable statements... Couldnt have been that important, ey?

    I mean if their best bet was to go in on 'Venezuelan communists manipulated our voting machines', god have mercy....

    edit:

    Found the source for the 300+% overvote. As you indicated, its debunked.
    https://web.archive.org/web/2020112...h-hyped-affidavit-features-big-glaring-error/

    -----------


    Haha, this is flipping great!

    Smartmatic story (in the so far unreleased affidavit) includes results being fed into a 'national monitoring room' in Venzuela, brought to you by Smartmatic - which allowed the president to monitor and change district outcomes in realtime.

    src:
    h**ps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_p1sonhp-k

    "Stark similarities" to the situation in the US were alleged by Powell - so the followup question is -- how many of Dominions voting machines were connected to the internet?... ;) (0? Well great, that takes care of 'stark similarities')

    Also according to Powell Smartmatic had to take the entire internet down in Venezuela to make the voting machines 'change over'. (What? Even in regimes like that - internet is only taken down to suppress news propagation and organizing.)

    Arguably allegedly (?) when that military official heard of 'glitches' in several Dominion voting machines that 'stopped the voting' for a certain time - he was reminded of his time in Venezuela when the President had to 'take down the internet - to change smartmatic voting results'? That the stark 'similarities' connection? ;)

    Also according to Powell Smartmagic built an elaborate system that allows you to disassociate identity verification data (thumbprint) from voting data, and manipulate one independent of the other. Yes, thats called a computer.... Also, thats by design (id gets discarded, vote is kept, so voting is thereby anonymized). Gotta love people speaking with authority on things they dont understand, not being questioned on it by the journalists interviewing, because they also dont understand a thing about those things... *sigh*
     
    Last edited by notimp, Nov 20, 2020
  4. omgcat

    omgcat GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    just add up the votes man. 157 vs 24+14+10 = 157 vs 48. or another way to look at it is 48/(157+48)= 23.41% for trump and 76.59% for biden.

    if we add the "don't care votes" those percentages drop a little for both candidates.

    however this is also an interesting topic. in a few senate races across America, there were shadow candidates that shared extremely close names with the democratic candidate thus splitting their vote.

    for example:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/20/florida-election-trump-senator-rodriguez/
     
    Last edited by omgcat, Nov 21, 2020
  5. Foxi4

    Foxi4 Cynical Absurdist
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    I mean, the last name here is "Rodriguez" , it's not exactly uncommon for a Latino. It's on the level of "Smith". Sounds a little conspiratorial, if you ask me. This is not evidence of a shadow candidate, it's evidence of sour grapes. If +/- 2% of voters voted "for the wrong candidate" based on the last name alone, I would question whether they should be voting at all. If you confuse "Jose Javier" with "Alex", maybe staying home is a better choice.
     
  6. smf

    smf GBAtemp Psycho!
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    Unless you know what the logs are supposed to contain, you can't really tell what it is going on.

    Maybe they get logged at multiple stages, so all numbers are in there multiple times.
    Maybe there were errors and they had to be retried committing to the data base.
    Maybe they were holding the piece of paper with their thumb over part of the number.
    Maybe the number they are seeing in the logs is not a ballot number.
    Maybe Rudy can't read.
    Maybe Rudy just made it up.

    I worked on software that did real time data analysis, it went through QA and went live without anyone noticing that the data volumes involved meant that if the system failed for any reason (power/network outage/etc) it would not catch up. I figured out a way to make it quicker, but in the mean time there was lots of records being processed at odd times of the day when nothing should have been happening.
     
    Last edited by smf, Nov 21, 2020
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  7. stanleyopar2000

    stanleyopar2000 Dirty Weeb ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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    "I Love Democracy."
     
  8. omgcat

    omgcat GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    an investigation is happening, the potential shadow candidate used an address in palmetto that he doesn't live at, which is a 3rd degree felony in Florida. The guy is a ghost, did no campaigning or anything.

    in fact, he doesn't even live in the district he was running for.

    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article247288694.html

    Alex got 6k votes when the difference between José and Ileana was 34 votes. if even 50 out of the 6000+ people confused the candidates names it swung the election.
     
    Last edited by omgcat, Nov 22, 2020
  9. urherenow

    urherenow GBAtemp Psycho!
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    do you understand what you're talking about? Obviously not. The number of democratic voters in those two states combined outnumber the number of republican voters in more than 30 other states COMBINED. Without the electoral college, the other state's votes wouldn't matter a damn bit.
     
  10. D34DL1N3R

    D34DL1N3R Nephilim
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    Okay. Let's put it another way for your simple mind. If there are more people in the United States that would vote for a Democrat President, then there should be a Democrat President as the people have spoken. It doesn't matter where the people are located, as long as all people are heard. Do people in those two states not have the freedom to take the side they wish, just like the residents of any other state? Why does location matter? Take the residents of those two states and spread them out anywhere in the US you'd like. Close those two states down, and relocate everyone to red states. Does that change their votes? Lmao. C'mon. Stop playing idiot for arguments sake. Why would the votes for any other states not matter without the electoral? That is complete nonsense. Like I said, relocate all those people and the vote does not change. Period. Fact.
     
    Last edited by D34DL1N3R, Nov 24, 2020
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  11. Foxi4

    Foxi4 Cynical Absurdist
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    The vote would absolutely change. The popular vote is irrelevant in the context of U.S. elections, what matters is the ratio of votes in individual states, since that's the basis for choosing electors.
     
  12. 0x3000027E

    0x3000027E GBAtemp Regular
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    Yes, this is correct, I am not sure what the other gentleman is going on about.
    Please not another "The electoral college is a system of Apartheid" debate; surely we are past this?
     
  13. Foxi4

    Foxi4 Cynical Absurdist
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    People have a hard time understanding that the United States are a federal republic - as the name implies, the country consists of individual states united under one federal government. Each state votes on an individual basis. Putting all the votes in one basket automatically nullifies state rights and institutes mob rule - the large states would dictate policy encompassing smaller states from now until the end of time. The system works perfectly fine as it is and keeps a delicate balance of power in the union.
     
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  14. Xzi

    Xzi GBAtemp's Resident Plok Expert
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    IF electoral college votes had kept pace with population as they were meant to, then the system would be working perfectly fine. The EC was essentially meant to be a representative form of what you call "mob rule" all the same. Aside from that, it was meant as a safeguard to prevent a person with neither the temperament nor the intelligence for the position from becoming president. Obviously it failed in that duty in 2016, so the entire institution has proven itself to be vestigial at best.
     
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  15. Foxi4

    Foxi4 Cynical Absurdist
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    Considering the fact that Donald Trump is a billionaire (I don't know too many rich fools) and the first president in decades who hasn't started any long-term international conflicts, and in fact did his earnest to withdrawal forces from the Middle East (like his predecessor had promised over a decade ago), I'll have to disagree with both statements, but I suppose these things are in the eye of the beholder.
     
  16. Xzi

    Xzi GBAtemp's Resident Plok Expert
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    Oh are we still in fantasy land? Or did you really not see his taxes that got leaked a while back? He's several hundred million in debt, or at least he was before he started profiting from the presidency. Probably made up about 100mil of it so far, at best. I'd say he's just a shitty grifter, but he got you hook, line, and sinker even though you aren't American. So I guess he's a half-decent grifter. :ha:

    Obama did start (or aid) in an international conflict, but it certainly wasn't long-term by any definition. And Trump did make moves abroad, such as abandoning our decades-long allies to death, or worse, rule by Putin.

    Bullshit. There are just as many troops out there, they simply moved from Iraq/Afghanistan to Saudi Arabia and the like to guard oil fields. GWB would be proud.
     
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  17. Foxi4

    Foxi4 Cynical Absurdist
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    I'm sure I'll see Donald Trump in the queue to pick up his unemployment check in the near future if you are correct, but I have a sneaking suspicion that I'm the one who's right, and I'd be willing to bet on it - it's a fairly safe bet on my part. As for President Obama, my memory is not hazy in regards to his military record - he ran on the "get our troops home" platform and yet authorised sustained troop deployment in Syria, with clear intentions of regime change. His "peace keeping" mission in Libya quickly turned into a regime change one as well. His administration approved a grand total of 506 drone strikes in seven different countries (that we know of) - under Bush that number was 50. I have no idea what metrics the Nobel Peace Prize Comission factors in their decisions, but Donald Trump is infinitely more deserving of it then Obama ever was. The divisions Obama created in the Middle East can only be rivaled by the divisions he created at home.

    EDIT: To explain the President financial situation a little bit better, his businesses generate a lot of operating income, it just happens to be non-taxable income as he's been offsetting losses made decades ago against his current filings, as he's done for many years. He also has a sizable stock portfolio and a large number of assets, valued at around $3.6 billion. Even if you were to offset all of his "debt" against his wealth, he'd be sitting comfortably at anywhere between $2.6 billion and $1.1 billion. He's not losing his shirt, he simply hires clever accountants.
     
    Last edited by Foxi4, Nov 24, 2020
  18. D34DL1N3R

    D34DL1N3R Nephilim
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    Except the conversation was about what would happen if there was no electoral. Next time please read the context of things before posting. K? Thanks. So no. The popular vote, which is what was being referred to, would absolutely not change.
     
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  19. gregory-samba

    gregory-samba GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    The Trump tax leak is probably simply fabricated as it did come from the leftist media.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    Each State gets representation under the Electoral College. If we voted with the popular vote certain states wouldn't be fairly represented and contrary to popular belief we do not live under a democracy, but a constitutional republic made up of 50 states and some outlying territories.
     
  20. Foxi4

    Foxi4 Cynical Absurdist
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    Even in the absence of an electoral college, states reserve the right to "vote" one way or the other - the votes of individual citizens play no part in the selection process on a federal level, they only on the state level. Choosing the president by means of a national popular vote would require amending the constitution, and "red states" will never approve such a change since it goes directly against their interests. Any changes to the constitution require approval of 2/3rds of the states, so your hypothetical question is a thought experiment and not a plausible scenario.
     
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