PocketPair reports and details the alleged infringed patents from The Pokemon Co. lawsuit

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Back in September of this year, news broke out about Nintendo / Pokemon Company would sue the creators of Palworld, PocketPair, for an alleged patent infringement from PocketPair's part.

The details about said lawsuit were scarce, other than the companies suing PocketPair, and it wasn't until today, November 8th, 2024, that PocketPair themselves released a short but detailed report about the current state of the lawsuit, and which specific patents from Nintendo and The Pokemon Company were the alleged infringed ones when it came to Palworld.

The alleged infringed patents from the Pokemon Company are the following:
  • Patent No. 7545191
    [Patent application date: July 30, 2024]
    [Patent registration date: August 27, 2024]

  • Patent No. 7493117
    [Patent application date: February 26, 2024]
    [Patent registration date: May 22, 2024]

  • Patent No. 7528390
    [Patent application date: March 5, 2024]
    [Patent registration date: July 26, 2024]
To summarize them, basically it all boils down to aiming and sighting directions in a virtual space, and riding objects in ground and aerial spaces.
According to PocketPair, both Nintendo and the Pokemon Company are seeking 5 million yen as well as late payment damages to each company, meaning 5 million to Nintendo and another 5 million to Pokemon Co. (plus the late payment damages).

As a closing statement, PocketPair assured that they "will continue to assert their position in this case":

PocketPair said:
We will continue to assert our position in this case through future legal proceedings.

Please note that we will refrain from responding individually to inquiries regarding this case. If any matters arise that require public notice, we will announce them on our website, etc.

:arrow: Source
 

ZeroFX

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Yes, it would be great if more people were actually interested in understanding better, wouldn't it?

You are responsible for enforcing your own patent rights. Even if you did pay to get a patent and a huge company infringed upon it, you would have to pay your own lawyers to go after them, and that would get hugely expensive, very fast.

There is certainly a case to be made that patents are pretty much only tools for major corporations now.
aw crap.
 

pogisanpolo

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Followed the Japanese tweet for a bit, and unlike the last post on this topic by Palworld, which was overwhelmingly negative against Palworld, reactions overall seem to be mixed, leaning towards neutral. Some posts are even openly voicing support for Pocketpair this time.
 

Kwyjor

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The patents, the one thing that could actually protect their ideas, weren't filed until 2024 though.

If they actually gave a crap about protecting their idea, they would've filed them before the idea was copied.
They can't just file whatever they want, whenever they want; the patents have to have support in the document they filed in 2021. It is very routine that one application can be the basis for multiple patents - the key limitation is that they will all ultimately expire 20 years from the initial filing at the latest.
 

Vetusomaru

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Funny how everyone whines about AI art "stealing other people's creations" and yet they defend Palworld that uses AI art generators to ripoff Pokemon 3D models without even trying to make them look different. Also they ignore that Nintendo is fine with other companies copying their games as long as they don't use Nintendo characters. This is why Nintendo and Pokemon Company never sued any Pokemon clones all these years no matter how popular these clones are. By the way the "they're afraid of competition" is laughable when Pokemon is still the most profitable IP all over the world surpassing even Disney franchises.
 
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MarkDarkness

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Funny how everyone whines about AI art "stealing other people's creations" and yet they defend Palworld that uses AI art generators to ripoff Pokemon 3D models without even trying to make them look different. Also they ignore that Nintendo is fine with other companies copying their games as long as they don't use Nintendo characters. This is why Nintendo and Pokemon Company never sued any Pokemon clones all these years no matter how popular these clones are. By the way the "they're afraid of competition" is laughable when Pokemon is still the most profitable IP all over the world surpassing even Disney franchises.
The Pokémon catching concept itself is ripped off from both Dragon Quest and Shin Megami Tensei. So... yeah. Unspooling this kind of thread can get complex real fast.
 

lordrand11

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5 million yen is 30,000 dollars. 30,000 dolars is nothing. Just for comparison, Billy Mitchell is suing Karl Jobst for 450,000 dollars. Interdasting.
Correct, if they get them to instead not take this to court and pay them it's admission of guilt by default and would be semi-costly to the Palworld devs the longer the lawsuit continues for.

Personally given the lax descriptions in their patents I would push for the court system, especially if I can find multiple video games issued well before the patent that have similar mechanics and systems.
 
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Cacho

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I really enjoy Nintendo games, but stopped playing the new games after Sword and Shield. I really don't like Palworld, but this lawsuit, is absolute crap. Completely ridiculous on Nintendo's part, and I hope they get counter sued with this.
 

Thulinma

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What baffles me is how the entire process seems to work.

If video games patents are to be allowed, I think that at the very least they should require the entire composition to be included, a comprehensive description of how the entire game works from top to bottom, otherwise we end up with scenarios like this, fucking patents about video game mechanics that serve no purpose when seem in isolation other than restrict what other people can do with their own games.

Although a far better option would be to just ban them entirely.
You're confusing copyright and patents here somewhat. "The entire composition" would be an "original work", which is protected by copyright.
Patents, instead, protect "novel solutions to problems". So for a patent to be granted, you need to describe a problem that exists, and a "novel" solution for that problem (one that has not been used before). In addition, the solution can't be obvious - it needs to have some level of "smartness" to it, or it won't be granted.
So, with video games, the only thing you could patent to begin with, would be very specific mechanics.

The original idea behind patents was to encourage publishing solutions to problems for all to see, so that everyone benefits from them, with as "reward" for the inventor a time-limited exclusivity on selling products that include this invention.
Of course, this is not quite adequate anymore in today's day and age: specifically in the software world, new "inventions" are made and then become irrelevant again (because something better comes along) within just a few years.

For reference, Europe (and probably some other places, I'm by no means an expert on the subject) hasn't allowed software patents for some time. Technically no places should accept patents for anything that isn't physical. However, it has been commonplace to "make physical" software solutions by writing patents in the form of "suppose you have a machine that can run arbitrary instructions, and that you write instructions such as the following...". Now the patent is not about the instructions by themselves, but about a physical machine that just happens to have very specific instructions to run. Yeah, that sounds kinda stupid, and is exactly why Europe decided not to allow that nonsense. (Of course, the instructions themselves are still protected by copyright, but not the "idea" behind the instructions. If you write different instructions that have the same end result, you're not violating the copyright of the original instructions at all.)

In general, you're absolutely right it's been time for some serious IP rights reform. Copyright has protections that are way too strong for how long it lasts (over a hundred years, depending on jurisdiction!), and no longer really ensures artists are rewarded for their efforts but instead mostly serves big corporations. Patents no longer encourage inventions but instead slow them down. Trademarks are the only ones that are still somewhat sensible and up-to-date with what makes sense in the modern world, but way too cumbersome to be practically useful for small players that are not big corporations.

Hopefully that shed some light on how the entire process works!
 
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Guacaholey

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so we're claiming that nintendo never expected anyone to (try to) copy pokémon and make a better version of it now?
From their perspective, yeah. Nintendo and it's fans have this asinine idea that they're the most revolutionary company ever.
 

mousefitzgerald

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Funny how everyone whines about AI art "stealing other people's creations" and yet they defend Palworld that uses AI art generators to ripoff Pokemon 3D models without even trying to make them look different. Also they ignore that Nintendo is fine with other companies copying their games as long as they don't use Nintendo characters. This is why Nintendo and Pokemon Company never sued any Pokemon clones all these years no matter how popular these clones are. By the way the "they're afraid of competition" is laughable when Pokemon is still the most profitable IP all over the world surpassing even Disney franchises.

I've never actually seen any proof that they did use AI art. When I ask for it, people always just show me some post the CEO or whatever he is made on twitter years ago where he was just trying out some trendy AI pokemon generator.

I agree he could've used this to get ideas, or someone on staff could've even, but to say that they definitely used AI to ripoff the models (as opposed to just plain out ripping them off) is speculation at best and defamatory at worst.

Nintendo is definitely a company that has, for years, tried to control all its own press, and how you are able to use their games:

-Remember them adding "tripping" when they heard people were playing smash bros competitvely?

-Remember them shutting down some old Smash bros tournament for a game they haven't supported in like 10 years?

-Remember them wanting 60% of all streaming revenue from people streaming their games?

-How the list of games they'd "allow" you to stream was a small one consisting only of older games?

-Remember all the fan games they've shut down? Particularly the interesting pokemon ones?

It seems far more likely to me that Nintendo saw palworld make 6 gorillian dollars in one month when it released and started to trying to figure out how to shut it down. They do not want anyone actually being able to compete in the space they, in their minds, founded. The minute someone actually showed up and started getting the same love they used to get for their pokemon games back in the days of blue/red - emerald/ruby I can't imagine there weren't people in management looking for any way they could to "punish" them. They just had to wait for the patents to go through, and the legal counsel to be free to file the complaints.
Post automatically merged:

For reference, Europe (and probably some other places, I'm by no means an expert on the subject) hasn't allowed software patents for some time. Technically no places should accept patents for anything that isn't physical. However, it has been commonplace to "make physical" software solutions by writing patents in the form of "suppose you have a machine that can run arbitrary instructions, and that you write instructions such as the following...". Now the patent is not about the instructions by themselves, but about a physical machine that just happens to have very specific instructions to run. Yeah, that sounds kinda stupid, and is exactly why Europe decided not to allow that nonsense. (Of course, the instructions themselves are still protected by copyright, but not the "idea" behind the instructions. If you write different instructions that have the same end result, you're not violating the copyright of the original instructions at all.)

It would be so funny if Nintendo caused the Japanese judicial system to reform IP against this kind of nonsense.

From their perspective, yeah. Nintendo and it's fans have this asinine idea that they're the most revolutionary company ever.

Nintendo used to be very revolutionary! Most people alive today that play their games likely wouldn't recognize just how revolutionary they were at the peak of the 90's "home entertainement system" craze.

Though the most interesting thing they've done in the last 10 years is probably touch screens (kinda cool?) and controllers you don't have to hold your hands together to play with (very cool and ergonomic).

You could say motion controls should be added to that, but I seem to remember motion controls existing before and I have yet to play a game where they consistently work right and are preferable to anologue sticks in 99% of situations.
 
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Hidori

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Why are these even patents?
"The option to change the ui during a battle"
Then you should be sued by Dragon Quest's creators too.
With sony basically patenting savestates, it looks like big gaming houses are really trying to expedite the remake of the 80s videogame market crash.
 
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mousefitzgerald

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Why are these even patents?
"The option to change the ui during a battle"
Then you should be sued by Dragon Quest's creators too.
With sony basically patenting savestates, it looks like big gaming houses are really trying to expedite the remake of the 80s videogame market crash.
Sega, Sony, and Nintendo would much rather burn the industry down and rule over the ashes than let anyone else eat their lunch.
 
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Spider_Man

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Late payment fees when nintendo took all this time to try make up their excuses what they're filing for.

And then generically summarises as any other generic game.

When in the real world what nintendo are pissy over is that its got out there before they had chance to launch their pokeshite online game.

When will people wake up and see nintendo for what they are, fucking cheap cunts that reap more profits sprouting shit to their legal dogs and corrupt judges to sue millions.

Didn't they rape enough out of its fansheep releasing the crap pokemon titles and tech demo's.
 

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