PCSX2 emulator developer explains GPL code-related info regarding AetherSX2

pcsx22.png

The new AetherSX2 emulator made waves across the emulation scene when it was quietly announced to the world. It promised PlayStation 2 emulation on Android, and with good performance to boot, which left many wondering how this emulator came to be, especially after the release of DamonPS2, which used another PS2 emulator's code--PCSX2--without complying with GPL licensing, and even selling the software for profit. One of the developers from the PCSX2 team decided to look into the matter and release an explanation that clarifies some details about the mysterious new AetherSX2 emulator.

As it stands, PCSX2 is open source and complies with GPLv3, with three instances of code that are part of the software: debugger code from another emulator--PPSSPP, the FreeType library, and libmpeg2. With AetherSX2 presumably using the code from PCSX2, it would need to remove those GPL bits of code in order to not have any issues upon release. Fortunately, the two dev teams got in contact, and it appears that the remaining code won't be a problem by the time AetherSX2 is made publicly available. The FreeType OSD and PPSSPP debugger aren't used, as AetherSX2 has its own OSD and does not make use of any of the debugger code. Meanwhile, while it does use libmpeg2, the developer has stated that it'll be simply replaced by FFmpeg, meaning the entire project will be LGPL and in the clear.

The existence of these 3rd party GPL parts means that PCSX2 as a combined works needs to comply to the GPLv3 license but our source code that we own remains LGPL. By distributing the code when requested we comply with the GPLv3 license. See the GNU FAQ here and here. If these mentioned libraries are removed, the entire project would become purely LGPL licensed.

These concerns of course extended out to this new emulator, and we had to reach out about it to Tahlreth. After a good discussion with him about these issues, we have been assured that it will no longer be a problem by the time the emulator releases. Right now the only piece of GPL code they need to contend with is libmpeg2, which can be replaced with FFmpeg, which is under the LGPL license; this is something we planned on doing in the future, since libmpeg2 is over a decade old. As for the aforementioned debugger and Freetype code, they no longer exist. Aether has its own OSD and no debugger, meaning the emulator will be entirely LGPL.

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the_randomizer

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I swear all this thread is 90% of the people shitting on PCSX2, thinking somehow that people can obviously program a better PS2 emulator. Oh wait, I remember, they can't.
Either use the real hardware, or do research and actually follow the PCSX2 development and learn something.

You'd think people bitching about it were anti-piracy :rolleyes:

Funny though, I've been able to use PCSX2 fine for several years, must be peoples' machines being potatoes. Maybe instead people can try the development builds? You know, the ones that are up to date?

"PS2 emulation is shitty" is objectively bullshit. Maybe don't use low-end AMD CPUs? What next, people are gonna say Zsnes is still the king of Snes emulators? x3
 
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I tried PS2 emulation when I got my gts450, and tested it with FFX. It sucked. Then I got a 1060 6GB like 6 years later and tested the latest pcsx2 again with the same game. Still laggy and choppy bullshit. And both times my pc was up to snuff. I'll try pcsx2 again when I get home, but I'm not expecting miracles. The PS3 emulator has had better progress in my opinion.
my old gtx 660 and my old i5/i7 even older systems (athlon 64 x2) played ffx flawlessly and ive never had a problem with it, the game is playable flawlessly till the end
pcsx2 1.6.0 has come a long way since back in the days of 0.9 sounds like a user error and the game upscales amazingly also the ps3 emulator now boots all games but alot of games are graphicly fucked
 
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I swear all this thread is 90% of the people shitting on PCSX2, thinking somehow that people can obviously program a better PS2 emulator. Oh wait, I remember, they can't.
Either use the real hardware, or do research and actually follow the PCSX2 development and learn something.

You'd think people bitching about it were anti-piracy :rolleyes:

Funny though, I've been able to use PCSX2 fine for several years, must be peoples' machines being potatoes. Maybe instead people can try the development builds? You know, the ones that are up to date?

"PS2 emulation is shitty" is objectively bullshit. Maybe don't use low-end AMD CPUs? What next, people are gonna say Zsnes is still the king of Snes emulators? x3
ahha zsnes i used to run on my old amd x5 -133 cpu lol
 
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the_randomizer

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I don’t get this take. I have PCSX2 running on my i5 6500 running integrated graphics with 2x resolution and it runs great. I was surprised when people say that PS2 emulation is hard :unsure:

Exactly, people in this thread are clearly getting off to bitching about PS2 emulation being "shit" because you know why? They're dead wrong and they can't prove it.

Emulators aren't the issue, it's their PCs that suck.
 

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Yep... This game runs perfectly fine.. No problems what so ever! </sarcasm>



So Obviously I have a horrible horrible computer </sarcasm>

View attachment 287326
You need to be using an RTX 3080 so you don't run into well documented bugs. It's not like games have run perfectly well on 8+ year old hardware. It's your fault the emulator that needs hacks to make things work has bugs.
 
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People may already have a PC for other reasons. Anyway, how much will cost you to play Rule of Rose on your OG hardware?

IMO, the best solution quality wise is indeed a HDD modded PS2 fat. Not the solution I use tho, I don't love PS2 as much as needed to commit myself to this solution, most people just want to play a handful of games easily. Emulation give people just that.
Сheck ps2 scene, you can mod with hdd\sdd some slims; play games through lan from pc; run games from usb in NoRmAl speed already. Many things changed.

Btw pcsx2 when I have 4 core pc play most of games in full speed (With really old hardware). In 2020 I try it in new 8 core pc and have slowdowns in same games... Progress :D
But yeah, many things was added and support library become bigger.
I love emulators, use them all (And yes, I have consoles too)
 
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Anyway, how much will cost you to play Rule of Rose on your OG hardware?
I'm pro-emulation but i'm going to break this down for you because now you're clearly bullshitting.

First, assuming that we're not speaking about backups, the game's price will be the same everywhere

Now, the price of a second hand PS2 is around 35/40 €, slightly less for the slim model at least in my country.

If you bot a phat, add in the cost of a HDD adapter. You can either go for the official one (around 30 €) or get a cheap counterfeit adapter on Aliexpress (10 €)

IDE Hard Drives are dirt cheap. Let's say 10/20 € for a decently sized one

This is the bare minimum. Let's say you have a HDTV with SCART or Component support. Okay, let's add 30 € for a decent quality cable.

40+30+20+30 = 120 € for the real hardware experience. Going by the bare minimum (i have left outside of this line doublers and upscalers)

If you want to use an emulator, the bare minimum is 300/400 € for an APU powered PC + a controller or a USB adapter.

And i'm not taking these numbers out of my ass, i literally have a PS2 laying besides my monitor, complete with a counterfeit HDD adapter, a 80 GB IDE Drive, a Retrotink 2x and a Logitech Cordless Action controller. It has all costed me less than half the price of my Ryzen R5 3600 (and i'm talking strictly about the CPU here)

Don't bring up the price issue, an emulation user no way in hell will have the upper hand here, so shut the fuck up.
 
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Cris1997XX

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I'm pro-emulation but i'm going to break this down for you because now you're clearly bullshitting.

First, assuming that we're not speaking about backups, the game's price will be the same everywhere

Now, the price of a second hand PS2 is around 35/40 €, slightly less for the slim model at least in my country.

If you bot a phat, add in the cost of a HDD adapter. You can either go for the official one (around 30 €) or get a cheap counterfeit adapter on Aliexpress (10 €)

IDE Hard Drives are dirt cheap. Let's say 10/20 € for a decently sized one

This is the bare minimum. Let's say you have a HDTV with SCART or Component support. Okay, let's add 30 € for a decent quality cable.

40+30+20+30 = 120 € for the real hardware experience. Going by the bare minimum (i have left outside of this line doublers and upscalers)

If you want to use an emulator, the bare minimum is 300/400 € for an APU powered PC + a controller or a USB adapter.

And i'm not taking these numbers out of my ass, i literally have a PS2 laying besides my monitor, complete with a counterfeit HDD adapter, a 80 GB IDE Drive, a Retrotink 2x and a Logitech Cordless Action controller. It has all costed me less than half the price of my Ryzen R5 3600 (and i'm talking strictly about the CPU here)

Don't bring up the price issue, an emulation user no way in hell will have the upper hand here, so shut the fuck up.
YOU better shut the fuck up, because you haven't considered something: Most people ALREADY have a computer, it doesn't matter if it's old or new. Even low-tier PCs made in the last two years probably meet PCSX2's recommended specifications
 
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YOU better shut the fuck up, because you haven't considered something: Most people ALREADY have a computer, it doesn't matter if it's old or new. Even low-tier PCs made in the last two years probably meet PCSX2's recommended specifications
Well, PS2 is one of the best sellin consoles ever? Don't you think that people may have a PS2 already too?
 

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enjoy your terrible emulation experience and having to use hacks so games are even playable then.

You're exaggerating a lot.

->PCSX2 isn't that bad:

PCSX2 offers a good experience with most games with the Hardware Renderer. Years ago I played some games fine with my cheap laptop and today I can't find any unplayable game with my new Legion 5 laptop (Ryzen 7 4800H, GTX2060).

If the Hardware render have issues with some games, you can always use the much more compatible Software mode. You'll lose the HD rendering, but the image won't be worse than the real PS2 you prefer.

->Hacks are inevitable for very exotic hardware like PS2:

PS2's emotion engine behaves way different than a x86 CPU, with features with no modern equivalent and way faster data transfers with lower latency than our RAM.

Emulating all that right would make the emulator unplayable slow. Hacks are a reasonable solution.

Just check the game entry in the official wiki to see what the game needs.

->PCSX2 isn't the only emulator with hacks:

The great Dolphin emulator also has got hacks. "Store XFB to Texture Only", MMU off, the non-deterministic "Dual Core" mode... years ago, HLE audio was considered a unreliable speedhack compared to the slow LLE audio.

The same could be said of RPCS3 or PPSSPP.

The big difference between PCSX2 and Dolphin is in Dolphin's game.ini. The GC/Wii emulator can automatically disable problematic hacks in problematic games, so the hacks are pretty invisible for the users.

Although PCSX2 can auto-apply the CPU hacks, but GS (GPU) hacks must be enabled manually. That is because, until months ago, GS was a separated plugin.

But the situation may improve soon(ish) now the GS plugin is part of the emulator.

Dolphin had the luck the GC/Wii hardware (quite un-standard, but not as much as PS2) and most games doing normal things allow them to skip problems. If every GC/Wii game were like Rogue Squadron III: Rebel Strike, using crazy undocumented features MMU, BAT tables, Z-freeze... complex shaders like Metroid Prime 3... forced interlacinglike Dragon Ball Tenkaichi3... or relied in icache, GPU timings and hardware bugs like other games... Dolphin performance would fall dramatically and the only way to make it work decently would be with hacks and patches. Then, you would be thinking that Dolphin is hacky and terrible, despite doing its best.

Fortunately, most GC/Wii games don't do that. Unfortunately, that kind of things are more common in PS2.

->PCSX2 has been improving a lot during the last years

  • The OpenGL backend improved in speed and compatibility, becoming the best mode. Some of its improvements were ported to Direct3D11 mode.
  • Those improvements made some hacks unnecessary and were removed.
  • The Code clean-ups (plus the OpenGL mode) allow the team to port it to Linux again.
  • Then a Retroarch core.
  • And a native 64bits build (it's being polished)
  • Every month they fix more glitches and broken games, you can read about them in the official website blog
  • Weeks ago, they fixed the last unbootable games and it can run any game (although that doesn't mean flawlessly)

->PCSX2 can do much more than a real PS2:
  • Higher resolution, shaders, texture filters
  • Overclock to remove slowdowns
  • Automatic widescreen patches
  • 60fps hacks
  • Fully customizable controls, with any pads
  • Easy video/audio capture
  • Custom texture packs (in a fork)
  • Fast disk speed hack for lower loading times (although a modded PS2 could do the same, it's limited by the USB or LAN speed)
  • Easy cheat management (I guess a modded PS2 could so the same, it would be less practical)
 
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Desconocido90

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I don't like how they relicensed PCSX2 to LGPL. It will allow developers to create partially closed forks, avoiding sharing improvements by hiding them in closed libraries.

And that's pretty much what AetherSX2 is going to do. We won't see a retroarch core because they will keep the ARM JIT closed source.

It reminds me of the n64/PSX plugin situation...
 
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I don't like how they relicensed PCSX2 to LGPL. It will allow developers to create partially closed forks, avoiding sharing improvements by hiding them in closed libraries.

And that's pretty much what AetherSX2 is going to do. We won't see a retroarch core because they will keep the ARM JIT closed source.

It reminds me of the n64/PSX plugin situation...
there is a alpha retroarch core, but as the devlopers where saying if you look it up there is so much code that cant be swapped out to just create the core needs a massive massive rewrite, that just doesnt happen over night
 

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I'm pro-emulation but i'm going to break this down for you because now you're clearly bullshitting.

First, assuming that we're not speaking about backups, the game's price will be the same everywhere

Now, the price of a second hand PS2 is around 35/40 €, slightly less for the slim model at least in my country.

If you bot a phat, add in the cost of a HDD adapter. You can either go for the official one (around 30 €) or get a cheap counterfeit adapter on Aliexpress (10 €)

IDE Hard Drives are dirt cheap. Let's say 10/20 € for a decently sized one

This is the bare minimum. Let's say you have a HDTV with SCART or Component support. Okay, let's add 30 € for a decent quality cable.

40+30+20+30 = 120 € for the real hardware experience. Going by the bare minimum (i have left outside of this line doublers and upscalers)

If you want to use an emulator, the bare minimum is 300/400 € for an APU powered PC + a controller or a USB adapter.

And i'm not taking these numbers out of my ass, i literally have a PS2 laying besides my monitor, complete with a counterfeit HDD adapter, a 80 GB IDE Drive, a Retrotink 2x and a Logitech Cordless Action controller. It has all costed me less than half the price of my Ryzen R5 3600 (and i'm talking strictly about the CPU here)

Don't bring up the price issue, an emulation user no way in hell will have the upper hand here, so shut the fuck up.
but the pc u spent money on emulates lots of systems and does alot more than a ps2, making the price comparison a pretty mute point lol :P pc still wins LOl
 
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