Online Gaming Limited to 3 Hours a Week for Minors in China

[Xzi]

Because you have no sense of morality or justice.

No, because I'm unwilling to accept a bunch of corrupt oligarchs' idea of morality and justice. China is exactly what America will become if we continue to let corporations dictate the rules of our justice system.

Nor would I tolerate riots from the "right side".

No individual or group is on the right side of every issue, all the time. The only reason I was willing to overlook some riots on behalf of George Floyd is because cops had gotten away with so many murders prior without facing justice for their crimes, and nobody believed Chauvin would face justice either. When the people enforcing our laws themselves don't adhere to those laws, it should be a wholly expected outcome that people will lose faith in and stop respecting the system.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

No, because I'm unwilling to accept a bunch of corrupt oligarchs' idea of morality and justice. China is exactly what America will become if we continue to let corporations dictate the rules of our justice system.

As it has been pointed out in this thread, it works differently in China. The party is above the corporations.

When the people enforcing our laws themselves don't adhere to those laws, it should be a wholly expected outcome that people will lose faith in and stop respecting the system.

I have not seen police officers taking part in the looting and destruction. You are acting as if they are eager to beat up people when they put on their uniform. Every cop loves a quiet day. But when you come into a situation which involves resistance to arrest, you fear for your life. It only takes a second to shoot a cop and America is armed to the teeth. Police in China have much more tolerance to disputes with offenders (I assume because they are not assuming civilians are armed; I have seen it many times).
You better respect the system. If enough people do not, you get South Africa. People there were looting as well and then stood in never-ending lines to get food from supermarkets, even arming themselves to stop the looting! (I do not mean store owners but normal citizens) Only spoiled children can bite the hand that feeds them (i.e. the "system" in the US).

 

[Xzi]

As it has been pointed out in this thread, it works differently in China. The party is above the corporations.

The party operates exactly like a corporation. Soulless and corrupt.

I have not seen police officers taking part in the looting and destruction.

Assuming your flag is correct, you haven't seen US police officers do anything. With stuff like civil forfeiture, they steal more cash from citizens most years than petty thieves.

But when you come into a situation which involves resistance to arrest, you fear for your life.

A pathetic excuse, retail and fast food workers de-escalate way more conflict daily, and do it unarmed. Cops who "fear for their lives" during every single routine traffic stop aren't cut out to be cops.

Only spoiled children can bite the hand that feeds them (i.e. the "system" in the US).

Only a fool sacrifices all his freedom for an intangible feeling of "absolute security." Authoritarians always take advantage of such irrational fear, we've seen it too many times to count throughout history. I'm sure the Chinese would also exercise their right to protest regularly, if they had such a right. Instead you just got all the worst parts of capitalism without any of the good stuff being grandfathered in.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

A pathetic excuse, retail and fast food workers de-escalate way more conflict daily, and do it unarmed. Cops who "fear for their lives" during every single routine traffic stop aren't cut out to be cops.

Boy oh boy. Quixotic to the core. As a cop you are not only dealing with armed civilians but also with cop assassinations where people make fake 911 calls and then kill the arriving officer. How can you compare this to fast food workers who have no damn power to put anyone in prison? Of course they are not threatening to criminals.

 

[Xzi]

As a cop you are not only dealing with armed civilians but also with cop assassinations where people make fake 911 calls and then kill the arriving officer.

Police kill more than one thousand unarmed citizens annually and a lot more dogs. Your anecdote happens once every five years, if that? I'll say it again: if a cop fears every single person within a community they're meant to be protecting and serving, they're not cut out to be a cop. That or the community they've been assigned to may as well be Mexico for their lack of familiarity/connection with it. If you treat everyone as hostile to the badge, it shouldn't come as any surprise when they treat police as an unwelcome occupying force.

How can you compare this to fast food workers who have no damn power to put anyone in prison?

Because, again, I was referring specifically to de-escalating conflict with unarmed citizens, which is something police are meant to be good at. If they just wanna act like thugs 24/7, then apparently they're only cut out for responding to violent crime, and we need to establish a different public service for responding to non-violent crime.

 

[chrisrlink]

let's get this damn train back on the rails shall we? point is China has a very toxic government and by micromanaging youth lives is very bad for the mental health of the youth (think of how some parents are militeristic and the youth rebels and runs away sometimes their are strict parents who are bad at parenting it depends on multiple factors but the goverment shouldn't micromanage playtime that should be up to the parents

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

Police kill more than one thousand unarmed citizens annually and a lot more dogs. Your anecdote happens once every five years, if that?

I cannot operate search engines in China as well as in Europe, but I have found the claim that 14 unarmed black and 25 white men have been fatally shot in 2019 in the US.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...icide-rates-race-injustice-column/3235072001/

Please provide your source. Hopefully I can read it, otherwise you need to copy the text.
I wonder how many of these unarmed men resisted arrest or made unwise moves (like reaching for their pockets or the below their car seat) by the way (!)

51 police officers were killed that year.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/12/us/2020-law-enforcement-line-of-duty-deaths-trnd/index.html

I do not know how many due to fake 911 calls but it seems to be a growing number. There is a name for this that I cannot recall.

If you treat everyone as hostile to the badge, it shouldn't come as any surprise when they treat police as an unwelcome occupying force.

Just as a prostitute assumes the worst of her clients it is best to assume the worst as a police officer. Police officers are not invited to Kindergarten partys. The do not deal with the average citizen. Their clients are usually male, young and aggressive. Otherwise they would not be called.

...and we need to establish a different public service for responding to non-violent crime.

Like what exactly? How do you know the drug user or dealer is not going to have a gun as well? He is more likely to have it than grandma.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

EDIT: Sorry for double posting!

point is China has a very toxic government and by micromanaging youth lives is very bad for the mental health of the youth

How is it toxis? If you are American, your government has spent trillions into a worthless war. It operates an extremely large and costly military without benefit to you. How are you going to profit from having World War 3 over Taiwan, for example?
In contrast, the Chinese government has brought tens of millions out of extreme poverty recently, has built the best infrastructure in the world and seems to at least have the interest of its people in mind. America does not even have a "people". America is a "creed/conviction state", i.e. the next Taliban arriving in a plane is just as American as you are if he believes the right things. And as we both know he does not even have to think them, pretending is enough. Even your so-called toxic Chinese government does not deny that e.g. drug dealers are not "real Chinese". They just hang them.

the goverment shouldn't micromanage playtime that should be up to the parents

As I have stated, this move actually gives parents more oversight. Children are going to ask their parents for permission to use their first or second phone to play games. Even for a child it is unrealistic not to have a smart phone in China (unless he or she is too young to buy stuff or go out by him- or herself).

 

[Xzi]

Please provide your source.

My source is official DoJ reports on shootings/murders by police. The rate has remained fairly steady since 2015, right around 1000 people shot and killed by police annually. These two sites take a deeper dive into the numbers and show that over half of these killings are preventable, while a good chunk of these officers are also repeat offenders:

https://policeviolencereport.org/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/

Departments don't report statistics on the number of pet dogs killed annually, but estimates are as high as 25 to 30 daily, 10,000 annually.

51 police officers were killed that year.

It's a dangerous job, there's no denying that, but it's also entirely too easy for police to become the biggest danger to their communities themselves.

Police officers are not invited to Kindergarten partys. The do not deal with the average citizen.

They do deal with average citizens, all the time. A sizeable portion of their job is just fundraising for their town/city via traffic ticket quotas.

Their clients are usually male, young and aggressive. Otherwise they would not be called.

They also get called for noise complaints, drug use, and mental health issues/welfare checks. Their first instinct should not be to keep one hand on their gun at all times in any of these scenarios.

How do you know the drug user or dealer is not going to have a gun as well?

A good argument for decriminalizing most, if not all recreational drugs. If users know the focus is entirely on rehabilitation and not criminal penalties, they're much more likely to accept the help they need, and much less likely to be aggressive toward anyone approaching them from the outset. Regulation also greatly cuts into gang and drug cartel profits, so violent dealers become less prevalent.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

The rate has remained fairly steady since 2015, right around 1000 people shot and killed by police annually.

You spoke of "more than a thousand unarmed citizens". Can you quote the link where it says unarmed, please?
[sidenote: of these unarmed: how many resisted arrest or made unwise hand movements; there is no data on it]

 

[Xzi]

You spoke of "more than a thousand unarmed citizens". Can you quote the link where it says unarmed, please?
[sidenote: of these unarmed: how many resisted arrest or made unwise hand movements; there is no data on it]

I was mistaken with that addendum, on average about 40% of those shot and killed by police annually are unarmed, and roughly another 20% are only carrying a knife. That said, carrying a firearm is a constitutionally-protected right in America, so it's still not justifiable for police to kill someone for that reason alone. Given the statistics, skin color obviously plays a big part in cops' calculus when analyzing an armed person as a potential threat.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

I was mistaken with that addendum, on average about 40% of those shot and killed by police annually are unarmed,

That would be hundreds, i.e. much more than the number I provided. Can you quote the text, please?

 

[Xzi]

That would be hundreds, i.e. much more than the number I provided. Can you quote the text, please?

Of the 1,126 people killed by police in 2020, 667 had a gun on their person or in their vehicle. The rest were either unarmed, had only a knife, or had their vehicle classified as a "weapon." Additionally, a majority of these killings began with police responding to non-violent offenses, only 309 of them occurred during a response to violent crimes.

All info provided by https://policeviolencereport.org/

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

Of the 1,126 people killed by police in 2020, 667 had a gun on their person or in their vehicle. The rest were either unarmed, had only a knife, or had their vehicle classified as a "weapon." Additionally, a majority of these killings began with police responding to non-violent offenses, only 309 of them occurred during a response to violent crimes.

All info provided by https://policeviolencereport.org/

Your case does not look good. You were pretending there were more than a thousand unarmed citizens killed (per year) int he US. Then you correct your number down to 40% of a thousand (which is around 400 hundred). But the website you provided roughly agrees with the numbers I provided: 81 of all races in 2020, 27 of which were black.
Now please look up crime numbers committed by blacks in the US. If you do not care about non-black lives, only concentrate on black vs black violence. Wouldn´t you want to do something about this horrendous situation rather than about 100 or so killings of unarmed people (of all races) by police? (of which most are probably not done in malice by the way)
What is your agenda here? I hope you at least admit that your numbers were completely wrong.

 

[Xzi]

Your case does not look good. You were pretending there were more than a thousand unarmed citizens killed (per year) int he US. Then you correct your number down to 40% of a thousand (which is around 400 hundred).

Even among cases with armed citizens, only about 30% of shootings committed by police can be considered justifiable at most. Carrying a registered weapon does not give anybody carte blanche to murder you, least of all officers who are meant to understand the laws they're enforcing. So you're right: the numbers don't look good. They show we need far more oversight and accountability for law enforcement officers.

Now please look up crime numbers committed by blacks in the US.

Completely irrelevant. Police are not meant to be judge, jury, and executioner. Least of all when responding to minor misdemeanors or non-violent crimes. America is a melting pot, we aren't about to genocide African-Americans like China is doing with Uyghurs just for some ass-backward fascist concept of "justice."

The arrest numbers only further the point that police specifically target blacks and Latinos at a higher rate for common (petty) crimes, while the statistics show that all racial groups use and sell drugs at about the same rate.

What is your agenda here? I hope you at least admit that your numbers were completely wrong.

I was only wrong about the unarmed part. Again, 1,126 people were shot and killed by police in 2020, and we're already above 700 for 2021. My only "agenda" is to keep power-tripping cops in line by whatever means necessary. I seriously doubt Derek Chauvin would've faced any charges whatsoever if not for the nationwide response following George Floyd's murder. One bad cop jailed, thousands more to go.

Basically: I don't want to see America becoming China where police brutality doesn't even get reported any more, and they have unlimited authority with zero accountability.

 

[chrisrlink]

stop derailing or do I have to call a moderator?

 

[Xzi]

stop derailing or do I have to call a moderator?

That's fair, this conversation has gone on long enough. Me and UltraDolphinRevolution obviously aren't going to agree on much, especially where the topic of authoritarianism and its enforcement mechanisms are concerned. But to tie it all back together: I've already conceded that a limit specifically on online gaming isn't the worst thing in the world, it's just that oligarchs shouldn't be the ones setting such limits. It's insane to imagine police knocking on a parent's door to arrest their 12-year-old for going an hour over his play time in Final Fantasy XIV.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

Completely irrelevant. Police are not meant to be judge, jury, and executioner. Least of all when responding to minor misdemeanors or non-violent crimes. America is a melting pot, we aren't about to genocide African-Americans like China is doing with Uyghurs just for some ass-backward fascist concept of "justice."

It is an odd genocide when the number of Uyghurs keeps growing. If the Chinese government wanted to genocide the Uyghurs, wouldn´t they want to limit their numbers? In fact, they were allowed to have more children than people of the ethnic majority.
The Uyghurs got violent when more and more Han people settled in their region. Since you like melting pots, you should actually call opposing Uyghurs "Uyghur supremacists" or "Nazis". But I do not expect consistency from you.

while the statistics show that all racial groups use and sell drugs at about the same rate.

I doubt that very much. Especially for Asians. They are also the least likely to be shot by police, do best in school and later in life. What a coincidence.

Basically: I don't want to see America becoming China where police brutality doesn't even get reported any more, and they have unlimited authority with zero accountability.

Chinese police is not brutal. They are usually less armed than American police (since civilians usually do not have guns) and do not have unlimited authority. You can see how little force they used in Hong Kong. I believe not one protester died (but non-protesters have been killed by rioters).

It's insane to imagine police knocking on a parent's door to arrest their 12-year-old for going an hour over his play time in Final Fantasy XIV.

It is indeed insane to imagine. You have the imagination of an insane person. The 12-year-old would just be kicked from online gaming after 9pm (and could not enter before 8pm).

 

[Xzi]

It is an odd genocide when the number of Uyghurs keeps growing.

Sounds like some CCP propaganda to me, the reports are very different from outside of China. The US State Department officially classified China's actions as genocide in January of this year, and several international organizations had already done so prior.

I doubt that very much. Especially for Asians. They are also the least likely to be shot by police, do best in school and later in life. What a coincidence.

It's not coincidence, Asian-Americans are simply stereotyped in a different manner from other minority groups. Generally they're seen as diminutive and non-threating by us tall, obese white Americans, citizens and police alike.

Chinese police is not brutal. They are usually less armed than American police (since civilians usually do not have guns) and do not have unlimited authority. You can see how little force they used in Hong Kong. I believe not one protester died (but non-protesters have been killed by rioters).

There's certainly been a concerted effort to make the violence less public since certain other violent events drew international criticism of the CCP, but torture and slavery behind closed doors is not somehow better from a moral or ethical standpoint. A lot of those protestors were never seen again after their arrests.

Now we should probably stick with the topic at hand assuming this conversation is going to continue at all, lest the majority of the thread become subject to deletion.

It is indeed insane to imagine. You have the imagination of an insane person. The 12-year-old would just be kicked from online gaming after 9pm (and could not enter before 8pm).

I was referring to a kid gaming at home, but I suppose even there the government has a watchful eye on them 24/7 and is capable of cutting off internet access. Or perhaps they'd just take points off the kid's social credit score?

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

Maybe u have not seen this part because it was edited to avoid double posting:

It's insane to imagine police knocking on a parent's door to arrest their 12-year-old for going an hour over his play time in Final Fantasy XIV.

It is indeed insane to imagine. You have the imagination of an insane person. The 12-year-old would just be kicked from online gaming after 9pm (and could not enter before 8pm).

BTW propaganda says nothing about the truth of a statement. You can propagate COVID19 vaccines. That does not make them not useful. It is simply a fact that their number has grown (and they are not restricted to the same birth restrictions). My propagating does not change it.

If you think you can "stereotype" a group of people into success in school, then the action of restricting online gaming surely helps. lol