On not having children. Some discussion.

[GreenZeldaCap]

Interesting topic. I'm neutral both ways. Somebody has to reproduce at the end of the day. Otherwise, the human race would be naught.

 

[cdoty]

Anyway cracked had an article where one of its writers had apparently been called selfish for not having/wanting children. I have seen some people look people oddly for not wanting children (the favour is returned in kind) but that one was new to me.

The people that should be getting the looks are people that have kids when they don't want them or are incapable of raising them properly.
I respect people that can, for whatever reason, decide they don't want kids and follow through with it.

 

[Hungry Friend]

The people that should be getting the looks are people that have kids when they don't want them or are incapable of raising them properly.
I respect people that can, for whatever reason, decide they don't want kids and follow through with it.

Can't argue with you there. People who are careless when it comes to sex are a big problem because they create unwanted children that are often neglected, abused etc. Some people are just idiots unfortunately, although not necessarily bad people or anything. There are also people who have kids just because they want to conform to societal norms/blend in, but you need to actually have your heart in it if you plan on having children. Too many people see kids as objects, and I'm sure anyone reading this knows at least a few shitty parents who fit this description.

 

[Kioku]

I wouldn't really call it selfish. What's selfish are those people who have unplanned children, but don't raise them. Y'know? Good on you for having plans for your life and sticking to them. That's not what bothers me.

I could go more in depth, but that line sums it up for me.

 

[Foxi4]

This reminds me of an interesting study. I can't quite recall the names of the researchers involved, but they looked into the correlation between lower crime rates and legalization of abortions and came to the conclusion that a smaller number of unwanted pregnancies lead directly to a lower crime rates 20 years later. Turns out that a good portion of unwanted kids grow up to be thugs since planned parenthood isn't/wasn't practiced by low status families. Food for thought, I suppose.

 

[FAST6191]

It was the freakonomics people

 

[The Catboy]

I don't want to have kids for a number of reasons. Now I could put it blunt and say I just don't care for the idea. But there is more do it, such as health and money concerns. Currently I live in an apartment that I can barely afford, despite everyone living with me having a job. Next I actually suffer from a medical condition where my immune system attacks my nervous system, which can result of a few things. One being that I am unable to always function from the pain and the pain killers I need tend to knock me out, which leaves me unable to do much to raise a child. I also suffer from some very serious and crippling depression, which can keep my down for week to months, something I don't want a child to live with. Nothing seems sadder than the idea of child having to try and help their parent just do daily things because they are trapped in a mental war with themselves or a child missing out on simple things like meals because their parent can't get the willpower just to cook.
I don't want kids because I care about their future. I know well enough that if I can't even take care of myself, that I shouldn't drag a child into that. I need to fix myself before I can even think about bringing a child into my life.

 

[VashTS]

the problem is that "selfish" has a negative connotation. you can be selfish but still a good person.

it is selfish to not have kids, the reason that you can focus on yourself and other relationships or goals in life. that is not a bad idea.

i wouldn't judge anyone for choosing to not have kids - there is a lot you can do without the burden.

i do judge people who have kids and are not fit to be in the position.

 

[The Catboy]

I also find the argument of "it's selfish" to be just narrow-minded. People can also be selfish and want to have kids. Some people want to have kids because want to have kids, which is basically a selfish action onto itself. Some people want to have kids because they think it "fix" something, which is selfish.
Basically no one is without fault. Kids don't magically make someone "unselfish," and not having them does not make someone "selfish." It just means we choose different ways we live our own personal lives.

 

[Hungry Friend]

What if someone with a crippling mental disorder or something chooses not to have kids because they don't want to pass such things on? I'd call that more selfless than selfish, so deciding to have kids or not can't be put into a one-size-fits-all box. There are millions of possible variables.

 

[xeronut]

I always wanted children when I was younger. I was the only teenager I knew (male, at that) to talk about wanting to start a family. Most of the guys looked at me like I was tetched in the head. I received lectures almost weekly from my mother about how she wanted me to start a family - "But your brothers did it!" - and I was the target of a lot of the "selfish choice" rhetoric as well. Time wore on and relationships came and went - none of them felt like mommy types, as I was more a father to them than I was a partner. My friends, brothers and coworkers all started families. I learned in spending time with them that it wasn't a father I wanted to be - it was an uncle. We get all the good stuff and aren't terribly obligated to clean up the BS. If I want kids, there are tons of single moms out there that I'm sure wouldn't mind fidelity, an extra paycheck and schlong-on-demand. I love kids.. I just don't have any.

The "selfish" line never really sat well with me, having seen my father and both of my (younger) brothers fail so miserably at parenthood. None were prepared, none performed when they were needed most, and all blamed everyone else for their mistakes. I'd rather not bring my own kids into the world and direct my attention to children already here (nieces, nephews, step/adopted kids, mentoring) than start a family I know I or my partner aren't ready to provide for.

 

[go-vegan]

i read only first post and here's my view:

it is estimated , there is 7.5 billion humans on this planet and growing fast.
most of world's population lives in poverty and struggling to survive.
this planet just don't have that much resources for all of us.
despite that, in 3'rd world countries the poorer they are, the more children they make.
why? they want them to suffer like they did? or they can't control their primitive instincts? you decide.

99 % of the people are not aware why do they want children.
because it is genetic program they are following and not reason or logic.
genes are programmed that way to ensure survival of the species, there is nothing "noble" or "higher" in wanting to reproduce.
that urge helped us to survive in our caveman days, sure.
but today, we just have to implement one-child-policy like china already did to keep this spinning blue globe from becoming bigger hell then already is.

 

[Foxi4]

i read only first post and here's my view:

it is estimated , there is 7.5 billion humans on this planet and growing fast.
most of world's population lives in poverty and struggling to survive.
this planet just don't have that much resources for all of us.
despite that, in 3'rd world countries the poorer they are, the more children they make.
why? they want them to suffer like they did? or they can't control their primitive instincts? you decide.

99 % of the people are not aware why do they want children.
because it is genetic program they are following and not reason or logic.
genes are programmed that way to ensure survival of the species, there is nothing "noble" or "higher" in wanting to reproduce.
that urge helped us to survive in our caveman days, sure.
but today, we just have to implement one-child-policy like china already did to keep this spinning blue globe from becoming bigger hell then already is.

Yes, we need more laws limiting our natural freedoms such as the right to offspring. China is a great hallmark of human rights, we should aspire to be more like the Chinese. Not. Your argument falls apart before you're even able to finish it - it's families that are unable to support children and yet have too many that are at fault when it comes to so-called "overpopulation" of Earth, it's a problem of third-world countries, not a global issue. Do you want to save the Earth? Procreate, raise the next generation of scientists and thinkers and mine the environment to the last molecule so that we may finally move on from this ultimately doomed planet. Families that live in poverty supporting 8+ kids *will not* drive progress or science, they won't save the planet, they can't even save themselves. *Our* children, fortunate enough to be born in a more afluent area, can make a difference.

 

[Walker D]

I think that making a good contribution to society is a good Life objective for everyone to have. But how it's done, depends on what each one feels, thinks and knows.

A straight-forward way to do so, and not a bad one, is to have kids (by so, I mean: having kids, teaching them to be awesome, and by so, giving the planet a relevant thinking mind that can produce things of good use and stuff). But it's not the only way.

People sometimes, based on what they have done or learned themselves, tend to narrow their perception of what others have to do. That's a bad limitation. People can do marvelous things to make the world greater, things that go beyond the maker's own existence. Having a child is one of them, but it's not even close to be the only way to do it.


Yup... so that's how I like to look at those kind of choices.

 

[go-vegan]

Yes, we need more laws limiting our natural freedoms such as the right to offspring. China is a great hallmark of human rights, we should aspire to be more like the Chinese. Not. Your argument falls apart before you're even able to finish it - it's families that are unable to support children and yet have too many that are at fault when it comes to so-called "overpopulation" of Earth, it's a problem of third-world countries, not a global issue. Do you want to save the Earth? Procreate, raise the next generation of scientists and thinkers and mine the environment to the last molecule so that we may finally move on from this ultimately doomed planet. Families that live in poverty supporting 8+ kids *will not* drive progress or science, they won't save the planet, they can't even save themselves. *Our* children, fortunate enough to be born in a more afluent area, can make a difference.

you obviously don't follow what is going on in the world last decade, huge amount of 3'rd world country people started to migrate in Europe, Australia and USA.
so when you say "it's a problem of third-world countries, not a global issue", well it is becoming global issue.

when you say: "raise the next generation of scientists and thinkers and mine the environment to the last molecule so that we may finally move on from this ultimately doomed planet", so your solution is to destroy earth just to leave it and create another hell on some another planet? how selfish is that to animals that we pushed out and forced into extinction? every other species on planet except for human's regulate their population naturally according to resources and habitat. only we reproduce without any control. and virus does exact same thing.
if you somehow remove bees or ants from nature, entire eco-system would collapse that's how those insects are important to Earth.
if you remove Humans in a same fashion, everything else would prosper, Flora and Fauna.
do you still feel so righteous and special?

 

[Foxi4]

you obviously don't follow what is going on in the world last decade, huge amount of 3'rd world country people started to migrate in Europe, Australia and USA.
so when you say "it's a problem of third-world countries, not a global issue", well it is becoming global issue.

when you say: "raise the next generation of scientists and thinkers and mine the environment to the last molecule so that we may finally move on from this ultimately doomed planet", so your solution is to destroy earth just to leave it and create another hell on some another planet? how selfish is that to animals that we pushed out and forced into extinction? every other species on planet except for human's regulate their population naturally according to resources and habitat. only we reproduce without any control. and virus does exact same thing.
if you somehow remove bees or ants from nature, entire eco-system would collapse that's how those insects are important to Earth.
if you remove Humans in a same fashion, everything else would prosper, Flora and Fauna.
do you still feel so righteous and special?

You're clearly unable to look forward far enough to realize the nonsense you're spouting. This planet is doomed regardless of what we do - the sun will eventually burn it as it gradually turns into a supernova. Unless you have a good idea how to colonize space with windmills, your approach will lead to our extinction, especially if we stop procreating. Facts are that the gross majority of scientists and engineers come from afluent families. Poor families may very well migrate, but they're not contributing to saving the planet or colonizing space - they can barely afford to move, let alone to educate themselves. As for other species regulating population sizes, it's only partially true. Many species have to be regulated by humans in order to preserve other species that would otherwise become prey. Moreover, human population is regulated, namely by diseases and war. Claiming that it's not is neo-hippie drivel. Humans are the only species that can save the planet - when was the last time you saw a chicken scientist or a monkey engineer? Unlike animals, humans can come up with solutions. The problem is that everything you know will be engulfed by the sun and the solution is to get off the doomed planet as soon as possible.

 

[go-vegan]

in 5 to 7 billion years Earth will become inhabitable because of sun's expansion.
so start thinking in fashion of our time and globally.
feed em first, send them to space later.

 

[Foxi4]

in 5 to 7 billion years Earth will become inhabitable because of sun's expansion.
so start thinking in fashion of our time and globally.
feed em first, send them to space later.

Nonsense. If you won't have scientists today, who is going to teach scientists tomorrow? Nobody, that's who. Give people a fish, they'll eat it and starve tomorrow. Give them a fishing rod, they will never starve again. We need to put all our chips on education and expansion, otherwise we'll wake up with our pants down because X years earlier some green jackass thought it was more important to preserve some old rock than to build a particle accelerator. Sitting on your ass and doing nothing has never solved a problem, not once in the history of humanity. You're arguing that laying on our sides and doing nothing for the vague premise that we'll get an extra year without the ice caps melting is better than solving the problems we face with science. By the way, the estimate of 5 billion is generous - life on Earth will end billions of years before the planet itself is engulfed, it will be a gradual process, not a magical fixed date. Natural disasters resulting from the expanding sun and radiation will kill us all sooner than the heat itself.

 

[lampdemon]

Kids take too much money, and I like wasting money for myself. That said, I lack the social skills to get a girlfriend and waste most of my free time playing games

 

[Hungry Friend]

Getting a girlfriend doesn't require great social skills as much as it requires confidence. No matter what you look like, women(and people in general) are attracted to confidence, and that's not to be confused with arrogance, which unfortunately a lot of girls are fooled by even though arrogant people are usually insecure fruitcakes. Also, I agree the world is overpopulated but restricting peoples' freedoms as far as reproduction goes like China is ridiculous and straight up immoral. Yes, let's give governments more power than they already have because it's not like most of the world's governments are run by a bunch of paid off, corrupt sociopaths or anything! Also corporations are people

The only time I see having kids as selfish is if someone has a kid and becomes a deadbeat parent. Otherwise, calling people selfish and such for wanting/not wanting kids is silly.