1. CrisMod

    OP CrisMod GBAtemp Regular
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    Hi Everyone,


    when I read the various topics in this forum, I can read the replies from the peoples that in 2020 still advice the external HDD with the Y cable, because sometimes the normal USB cable doesn’t support all the energy requested to speed up the HDD internal disks and so on…….

    So, to whom still has the doubts on it, in 2020 you can buy the really short and nice quality USB Pendrive with at least 256 GB (and from my opinion, under this point Samsung it makes really great job on it). So instead of to became mad with Y USB cables external HDDs with the consequences of corrupted files if doesn’t receive enough energy from the USB port and so on or Long USB Pendrivers or internal SSD Mods (that I love the modding worlds) …. Really, in our days you can get a really short USB Pendriver (as I post the picture below) with a lot of advantages:

    1) No worries to achieve the USB energy specs (always check if they are compatible with USB 2.0), and free mind about future corrupted files as well.

    2) More clean and easy for any users.

    3) Keep fresher the Hardware, because the one that example I have bought it achieves 400 MB/s on read side (the new version) and the bandwidth of the USB 2.0 from the Wii U will never fill it because it will request around from 60 to 80 MB/s maximum. It translates that the entire Pendrive components keeps fresh and last for more long.

    4) The model that I have it’s shock proof, x- ray proof, magnet proof and so on.

    Here I have launched this provocative topic for everyone, just to drop the old point of view and to "hug" the new short models Pendrive brands and share as well the personal experiences of each everyone outside there….
     

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    Last edited by CrisMod, Nov 20, 2020
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  2. alexander1970

    alexander1970 Thank you,Santa.
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    Hello.:)

    Thank you for your Contribution and your Explanation.:)

    I am pretty sure @Cyan will be delighted about your Post.:)
     
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  3. Zense

    Zense GBARunner2 config: Touch the touchscreen + press R
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    I've never had a harddrive with y-cable die on me. However, I have had a usb pendrive die on me, one which I had bought that very same day. Of course mine is just one example, but so far it has worked for me for three years now.
     
  4. MikaDubbz

    MikaDubbz GBAtemp Advanced Maniac
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    It's actually not advised to use pen drives with the Wii U, supposedly these will die relatively quickly when used with the Wii U. Go the Y-cable route, it's safer for your hard drive and Wii U.

    Any noob that comes across the topic, I strongly recommend you don't do as OP has suggested.
     
    Last edited by MikaDubbz, Nov 21, 2020
  5. Lostbhoy

    Lostbhoy HEY YOU GUYS!
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    Sure, pen drives will work.... For a limited time only and unfortunately when that time comes, you will have lost all of your data held within.

    That is a major problem as your drive cannot be cloned by conventional means in order to back it up or be inserted into another console as it is tied to your console only.

    So by all means, use your pen drive until that fateful day arrives and then please edit your post to reflect the proper information that comes with experience!
     
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  6. bodefuceta

    bodefuceta GBAtemp Fan
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    Hard drives with separate power supplies (wall plugs) are the patrician's choice.
     
  7. Cyan

    Cyan GBATemp's lurking knight
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    suggesting HDD has never been for the points you mentioned. even if requiring Ycable is just because USB port on WiiU don't deliver enough power, it's just common sense on WiiU if you use HDD, because HDD requires more power to rotate the plates. Of course the solution would be to use Flashdrives instead, no plates, no motor, no Y-cable needed!
    But it's just an ascertainment that flash drives are NOT working properly, especially in write mode.

    counterpoints I can give you :
    1- They do work, in read mode only, on wii/vwii.
    If you have a non working flash drive in write mode
    -- only add games on computer : NEVER dump a disc using your console.
    -- be careful, it also means downloading covers, cheats, or generating config files, creating savegames and memory cards using nintendont will be dangerous and can potentially corrupt your file table.
    in all cases, you risk : freezes, corruption and data loss.

    2- a lot of flashdrive uses a USB interface not compatible with the cIOS's and mini-USB's ehci driver.
    only the one used by nintendo is compatible (available in IOS58 and IOS59 only).
    See, this is NOT the flash itself, but the "program" used to talk and convert USB signal to eMMC signal which is at fault here. the "interfacing program".

    so, you could mount and see the file's and game's content while inside homebrew (most of which uses IOS58), but black screen and freeze and can't be mount once you reload to cIOS !


    90% : don't work with cIOS
    99% : don't work in write mode
    1% : works fine if you are lucky.

    If you tested only the 1% and feel like every other flashdrives sold in the worlds are necessarily the same model and uses the same USB interface drivers, then you are a fool :)
    as much as telling users that "ALL HDD require Y-cable" while some don't need more than 500mA of power, some have their own external power supply, etc. not accounting for user's differences is wrong.
    just LOOK around, see how many threads there are in 2020 on gbatemp where users request help, and are happy to switch to HDD because it finally fixed their problem.
     
    Last edited by Cyan, Nov 21, 2020
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  8. CrisMod

    OP CrisMod GBAtemp Regular
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    Hi Cyan, I understand now what alexander1970 mean about [​IMG][​IMG]:D;).


    Yes I know what all are you meaning about, and I'm inside the modding world as well and of course that the safest solution will be the classic HDD with separate power supply to avoid problems with IOSes (caused from I/O system communications and for electricity jumping as well) and of course the nature of the mechanical HDD it's more "Solid/Rock" with the data because of the nature of the memory mechanical system and so on, but here I would like to try to watch with you, if the progresses made in our days with the USB Pen technology (and for sure are not the same USB as in the past, especially this model that I mentioned; connected to the "nm" miniaturization that allows to add some protections into these small pendrivers where in the past was just a piece of solid state memory and that’s it) .



    1) It's always about the Solid-State solutions Vs Mechanical HDD. That the HDD will be safe only if they are attached externally of the console with the own HDD dock station solution; but are less practical to see and management you have to power up and power down two devices. And from my experience if the HDD it's attached only by the USB "Y" (so not by dook with the power supply) soon or later will death the board under the HDD because of the I/O system that it's not natively programmed for the console but are just plagged and that’s it.


    2) If we need to think in this way the SSD are bad as well (even if they have the TRIM technology solutions and so on) and the SD cards that contains all the tree structure of the modding are in risk as well. So, if we need to think that everything will be lost in anyway will be lost (but of course we need to minimize those risks). And again, the unique plus points that I can find into the solid state it's inside the Samsung USB 3.1 FIT Plus for now, because the Sanddisk or other brands I fell that they can dead soon. I have bought 4 of them for my 3 Wii U and one for my previous model Wii (yes, I come from and tested other USB pendrivers and HDD with Y cable that one of the HDD dead for that reason) and so far are the unique that works really great.


    3) The mechanical HDD as per my PS3 consoles or my previous Wii, if they have to break will break anyway; and you know why?! Because the I/O functionality it's not as native as could be in the PC (even if on PS3 side there is also a topic of the temperature from the console, but anyway I replaced it with an SSD).


    4) A usage of a console doesn't have so much Write side as you can do with one PC that can corrupt so easy the files (again if the Pendrive it's nice quality), but of course if you continually move, replace , cancel the files into the Pendrive in that case of course the Pendrive as per SD side, could be ruined easily and fast. But this could be a topic for the Pendrives in the past or really low budget where the space of them was/are limited and was/are just a simple memory to bring from one place to another. In our days with the big space as much as SSD into a Pendriver you can install an OS to use it as technician (and of course will not replace the user experience of an SSD or HDD but still). So the construction quality it's a bit different from the past years.


    5) The consoles are more Read stages than Write, for this reason once you placed everything into 256gb or more you shouldn't move or cancel continually the files, with plug and un-plug the pendrive between PC and Console that gives to it some "shock" of each movement that you are doing on it.


    6) About the EHCI drivers communications, such high quality pendrive have to be compatible as the reason that have to be compatible to install the modern (or relatively modern) OS on it, and have to be retro-compatible with 2.0 USB I/O communications standards. For this reason, for now, I can talk about the model that I mentioned. And
    for now I didn't have any problem with IOS58 and IOS59 .

    7) To be correct, we should say also if you are using the HDD with the external adapter from SATA to USB, in between (except Marvell chipset or some others) could be also some cheap chipset that can do a mess when you tranfer the data between the console and the HDD. This happened to me as well, so sometimes it's not only the HDD or the Console with the IOS problems, but almost of them problem are the Chipset quality that control and place all this flow of datas between the two hardwares; and this it's the same topic when I mentioned the Solid States with high quality or cheap quality memories that the persons are buing (this it's my experiences with different modding)....
     
    Last edited by CrisMod, Nov 21, 2020
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  9. The Real Jdbye

    The Real Jdbye Always Remember 30/07/08
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    That is one thing. Apparently it writes a lot to the USB drive in standby but you can unplug it when not in use to stop that. I'm not sure what it would need to write so frequently, that's just what I've read.
    But the bigger issue is that USB flash drives very rarely seem to work properly with USB loaders. If you use it in Wii U format for Wii U games and WIiVC then it's fine, but if you want to use FAT32 and .wbfs files odds are games will not launch at all. For some people flash drives work fine but there are constantly new threads about people having issues using flash drives. So that's why the suggestion is to just go with a USB hard drive, because it's likely to work fine, and save yourself headaches trying to make your flash drive work when it's just incompatible and it's never going to work no matter what settings you change.
     
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  10. Cyan

    Cyan GBATemp's lurking knight
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    just to be clear, I never talked about the deterioration and wearing risk that eMMC/SSD has to face for continuous writing to each cells.
    I'm really talking about the inability to write data to the device through the USB Interface using the cIOS.

    that's not a problem of the flashdrive itself, but more of a cIOS missing functions (to my knowledge). as cIOS with base58 (using nintendo's own official ehci) are working fine!
    to fit the ehci module inside the small ARM memory available for the IOS, it had to be a custom/downsized ehci module.

    You think writes are not happening that often, for wii games you are right, though users might still write the config file at every game launch, download covers, banners and cheats.
    Not counting emuNAND, where every NAND writes are redirected and done directly on the device!
    for emulator, and nintendont, that's even more problematic, a memory card is created at game launch (if not present yet), and at game exit (to store the savegame from memory to file).

    If you think 2020 means flashcards are better and more compatible than previous devices (which would mean they re-added ehci command they removed for years that HDD still have?), that's all good for us ! we would have less threads asking for help and users will not come here, all the "suggest HDD over flashdrive" will disappear by itself as they won't come asking how to fix they flashdrive's problem.

    I agree that flashdrives nowadays should be retro-compatible with 2.0 USB I/O communications standards. that's the issue : cIOS's ehci module are NOT STANDARD, but smaller and user made.
    to get really free of that issue, cIOS has to be updated.
     
    Last edited by Cyan, Nov 21, 2020
  11. CrisMod

    OP CrisMod GBAtemp Regular
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    [QUOTE="I'm really talking about the inability to write data to the device through the USB Interface using the cIOS.[/QUOTE]
    - What you mean here exactly? You talking about the previous Wii or the actual Wii U?

    Because if we are talking the old Wii that as the cIOS58 that it's function like a driver to be able to go around of the problem to let you read/write the games/datas in the USB, and then because as you said the problem it's in itself "driver" how management to unlock this future communication between the Console and the USB interface , than it's one issue and in the way I can understand you.
    But this it's the same point like when you make the Hard Mod for the Dreamcast (I don't know if you never had a chance to do one on this console) , the particularity of the hard Mod Dreamcast it's that any component that you chose for soldering and compile the files are extremely delicate on fluctuations in passing datas, and trust me if I transfer such experience with this delicate Mod it's show you how the Chipset that control the Adapter from IDE to SATA or USB to SATA it's really delicate and so important to have the correct place or management datas in to the memories; for this reason this mod it's demanding high quality of the components otherwise will not work or create corrupted datas.

    Because, except that there are the problems of the management of the datas one of them it's the Fragmentation that could cause the problems (where the IDE it doesn't have such problem because the binaries data pin are connected to the pin 1 to 1 without the help of some I/O chip that manage the datas to be compatible/translate with it) , so I believe that once the nice guys released the cIOSs "drivers"to unlock the future for the Wii if they are in Beta they have the problems from the HDD,SSD to USB pendrive because are USB to SATA and in between there are other chips to translate to be compatible with different interface technology buuuuuut if the chipset controller (example Marvell it's one of the best) that it's in between the SSD or the HDD or build in the Pendrive it's not so reliable for the purpose to be compatible with different interface (and again for this reason it's important the quality of what are you buying even if apparently they looks like the same , but they are not) so you will have many problems from the fragmentation files and placed the new one in to it.


    It's like when I Installed Windows 7 on recent windows 10 computer, that you have to compile the .inf file to unlock chipset engine management and so on and sometimes the usb from 3.1 second generation version are working but are not recommend if you need to work with it; because the drivers adapted could not working in some special case or decrease the speed from 10Gbps to 1Gbps example. But almost of the time will not give you such big problems.


    The people have problems because:


    1) They mistake to allocate the Cluster when they formatted them device.

    2) Use the non raccomend format file system

    3) Un-pugh and plugh continually from the PC to the console without safe un-pluggin of the drivers especially when the Pendive, SD and so on are still working in background and create the corrupted & dissapear datas for the shock that the drivers suffer each time.


    4) Buy the cheap or the unreasonable speed quality of the product.


    And this it's more attached to the previous Wii world we talking about.


    For the Wii U the topic it's slightly different, because by default the USB plugs are used from Nintendo OS/ System "natively" to install and safe the datas from it; so the cIOS topic can be less optimized for the vWii instead of for the Wii U. And trust me, to my son I made a Wii that I placed into the Pendrive the games and others in the HDD and both are working well till now without fail, and on Wii UI use only the pendrive it never gives any corruption files (again I can talk only for the model that I have bought). Because the cover or cheats or wherever you download, you will dowload few times but it never can be comparing with the Read/Write of an OS..... Because, if the OS will be installed into an USB Pendrive, continually there are file system requested of both ways to be Read and Write to be functionally and we don’t talking about of some covers or cheats txt files….
     
    Last edited by CrisMod, Nov 21, 2020
  12. Cyan

    Cyan GBATemp's lurking knight
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    I'm talking only about wii and vWii homebrew, not about the official WiiU HDD where you put WiiU games on an external device formatted in nintendo's own proprietary format.

    for that, I don't care what you use or suggesting to other users, both HDD and Flashdrives are working.
    though, Nintendo itself is not recommending flashdrive for WiiU formatted drives due to wearing effect.
    I can't talk about it myself, I never used that feature and never plugged a WiiU formatted HDD. I'd listen to what BOTH Nintendo and users who used such devices tell. they had flashdrive dying... that's all I have to know.

    I guess we never talked about the same thing from the beginning, that's alexander's fault, quoting and calling me here, I thought it was about Wii homebrew and USBloaderGX ;)
     
    Last edited by Cyan, Nov 21, 2020
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  13. CrisMod

    OP CrisMod GBAtemp Regular
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    Yes @Cyan , here I'm talking only for Wii U with WFS (File System) where you can install the Wii U, some Wii Games (the list compatible with the Wii U PAD) and Gamecube/Arcade games by WUP Installer GX2. For this reason I opened this topic under Wii U section, if we need to talk about the USBLoaderGX, vWii (that anyway cannot be used the same USB file system from Wii U) and company this topic will be really huge and it makes sense to talk about cIOS issues and so on, but it's not the purpose of this topic [​IMG];).

    Just to tell you , but this it's just my preference, for convenient way and to avoid many compatibles issues with vWii (because I like to start the backup games software from the Wii U Menu) if I don't have enough space into the USB with WFS file system, I placed the rest of the games for Nintendont and WiiFlow (because of all the purpose of compatible cIOS issues by USB that also WiiFlow it doesn't support it and all the covers, saves and software tree directory it's placed in the SD) into the big 512GB SD card...This, as I said, just to avoid the compatibilities issue first and to don't stay there to plug and unplug the USB every time because as you know the Wii U doesn't allow you to use TWO USB simultaneously.

    Please, don't blame Alexander because I enjoy to talk with you man:).....
     
    Last edited by CrisMod, Nov 22, 2020
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  14. Cyan

    Cyan GBATemp's lurking knight
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    You can't use two USB simultaneously, but you can plug two or more and the console switch to the correct drive when needed.
    a lot of users have both the WiiU (WFS) and vWii (FAT32 + Ustealth hidden) drive plugged at the same time.

    The WiiU side will see and use the WFS formatted one, and won't ask to format the FAT32 as it doesn't have a known partition table's signature (55AA replaced with 55AB)

    The vWii side will rely on different things :
    - The fact that most homebrew which are checking the signature have been updated to be compatible with 55AB. Nintendont will skip drive with bad signature (change USB Port and try another device so it can't mount WFS by mistake)
    - Some homebrew are not checking the signature, and look at the partition definition directly (USBLoaderGX's forwarder for example), which can be a problem as it might use the WFS one.
    - to prevent to mount the wrong drive, users must understand the "order" the USB Ports are seen by the console and plug them accordingly, like you said they can't be mounted simultaneously so there is a specific order.
    - User might even use HUB to play with the drive order and (in)ability to be seen based on the console's mode and vWii mode IOS base they are using.


    Using the SDCard for Wii game with Wiiflow is a good idea, except for specific games and setup.
    do not use d2x r53
    do not play Kirby from SD (maybe there are more game detecting piracy attempt when playing from SD, but that's the only one I know)
     
    Last edited by Cyan, Nov 22, 2020
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  15. CrisMod

    OP CrisMod GBAtemp Regular
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    Number one @Cyan, I didn't know about this little trick; thank very much, I will try it.....:)
     
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  16. depaul

    depaul GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    I actually did the same thing. Bought a new SD card and used my old 256 GB SD card as an external storage with my Wii U through an adapter.

    It works flawlessly, even a little faster than HDD.
     
  17. qbdp

    qbdp Member
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    Mostly, I use VC Injects because they're convenient having all of my games on one HDD. However, I have never been able to get VC injects working with instrument games. I can't even get the USBLoaderGX vWii/Wii U forwarder to work with instrument games. I have to boot into vWii, load USBLoaderGX through the homebrew channel, and load Rock Band/Guitar Hero that way. Otherwise none of the instruments work. They get power but they will not assign a player number to the instruments.

    For this reason, I have all of the Rock Band/Guitar Hero Wii games on a 128Gb flash drive. I only plug it in when I want to play those games, and the drive is backed up to my file server just in case the drive dies and I need to remake one. Been using the same drive for years with no problems, but I'm probably pushing my luck. I've just never been able to play these games any other way.

    The worst part of this setup is that I have to unplug the Wii U hard drive when I load up vWii otherwise USBLoaderGX will not initialize my vWii USB flash drive. Its a massive pain.
     
  18. The Real Jdbye

    The Real Jdbye Always Remember 30/07/08
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    Ah yes, USB access doesn't work in WiiVC.
    You should be able to keep both drives plugged in, as long as the vWii drive is in the first (top back) port. You can also change the active port in USB Loader GX, if it for some reason picks the wrong one. But only if you have d2x beta53-alt, as beta52 only works with the first port.
     
  19. Lang_Kasempo

    Lang_Kasempo Gbatemp's Official Bi-hugger
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    I can confirm, my Wii U killed my 64 GB Pen drive for some reason. I was playing with it and in some random moment, the pen drive stopped to work while being connected to the Wii U
     
  20. qbdp

    qbdp Member
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    I'm pretty comfortable with the setup for now. I dont really feel like messing with cIOS stuff again. Took me forever to figure out how to get cIOS58 working so USB Loader GX worked at all and then how to set GX to use IOS58. Originally it used 249 and did not see USB drives at all.

    I got the Wii U from my brother who hacked it originally. I'm not that good with this stuff really.
     
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