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NX leaks ? forums full of "nintendo is doomed" people , stupid followers or what?
- Thread starter nintendarium
- Start date
- Views 7,719
- Replies 84
I suppose technically Nintendo has not had a strong third party showing since the SNES on the things that go in my TV, and the GBA/DS for the handhelds (it practically evaporated on the 3ds which is why I find its library so meh). In the first case it will 20 years since the N64 hit later this year so that (20 years and four consoles) is long enough to figure out a trend.
Also on developers and consumers then they kind of want to go where the action is so you have to entice them. There are times when you can blame consumers and devs, though the former is hard to do well, but I am not seeing it here.
Anyway I think this thread just went golden.
Well...
If you believe Nintendo really needs a change, they have the first new president now in decades. A real changing of the guard after the untimely passing of our beloved Iwata, who oversaw the company through the GameCube through to the Wii U.
So we shall see what this new era brings.
If you believe Nintendo really needs a change, they have the first new president now in decades. A real changing of the guard after the untimely passing of our beloved Iwata, who oversaw the company through the GameCube through to the Wii U.
So we shall see what this new era brings.
As a financial analyst concerned with games and related topics he seems to do pretty OK.
I would like to see Nintendo stop leaning so heavily on Zelda and Mario. This generation seems to be a bit heavy with those games. I would like to see some more of the old franchises (dead or MIA) revived. Like Kid Icarus was.
When I had it I had an even split between 3rd and 1st(2nd) party stuff around a dozen games in all. I got rid of it before Bayonetta was even a blip I think (definitely not dated for release.) I know I had COD Ghosts, Rayman, ZombiU(bleh), Goldeneye remake, NFS Most Wanted U, Mass Effect 3, Resident Evil Revelations, Duck Tales was the last of the 3rd party discs I had. The last 1st party was a gifted DKC Tropical Freeze which I didn't enjoy much. The third party stuff was a mix of disappointment and enjoyment. CODG, Rayman, Duck Tales and RER were exceptionally well done games. ZombiU was boring to me, Goldeneye I didn't like the control and tweaks, NFSMWU had annoying bugs so I quit using it, and ME3 I got bored of but it was good(loved ME2 why I got it, but it was insulting they released the whole trilogy for PS3/360 at the same time -- huge middle finger.) The first party was Nintendoland Pack-in, Super Mario U, LuigiU which I disliked(sold), Mario 3D World, Zelda Wind Waker, Pikmin 3, and I think that's it. I had a select few eshop games like D&D Mystaria and NES Remix1 but little else as I don't care to buy eshop stuff.
Personally it didn't keep me entertained much, even less than the Wii which went into the support toilet after the 3rd year when it tipped into insulting franchise ports to rail gun garbage, flash/web games on disc, and other weirdness -- but at least it had some fun games unique (Fragile) and not (MOH WW2 titles and the COD stuff too which was amazing all thigns considered in conversion.) Nintendo was a delayed disappointment on Wii and a within a year one on WiiU.
I hate being down on them as I've been well into them since the 85 test launch when I was gifted one of those at christmas, but as it stands now I trust them for nothing on consoles as they clearly just care to be self serving dolts, but they know how to make and support on all aspects a handheld device. I was happy when NX news/rumors were around about it being an all in one handheld and console where either device would use the same media and supposedly the tech was scalable on quality much like how a mediocre PC and a badass PC can run the same game at the same speed with just reduced quality settings. I was all up for that, but as the news keeps twisting towards yet another potentially unique console leading me to think they haven't learned their lesson I'm cooling off to it. 15 years ago I worked at Midway on Gamecube/PS2/XB stuff, and while I left it my brother has been to many of the big US studios and still works for one as a producer. Last gen I learned they had a third party offering for full support if they made tech capable of what they wanted in an improvement which is why the PS4 and X1 are fairly similar in spec, and Nintendo said NO we have this idea for another way to play and they were going to stick to that (tablet controller) and a budget and in turn they blew them off almost completely. We as WiiU owners got 1-2 years of ports ranging from chuggingly lousy to pretty solid stuff along with slaps in the face like EA with the ME3 vs ME Trilogy scam or delaying releases for months or longer (or releasing 1-2 year old ports.) Then when that dried up it got even worse than the N64 in its dark 2 years of a game every 3-4mo from Nintendo or Rare -- they don't even have Rare now so it's even more dire waiting on a game worthwhile. That's why I sold it, because I hate open world games so Zelda I'd never buy, Starfox looked awesome but now the control looks odd and forced (but I'd buy it), and with a 4yr old I'd never have time for Xenoblade so that was out (and it even has reviewed in very mixed terms.) I saw no value. Some rare days I miss it, but then I see what it would cost to re-buy my old games, such as Pikmin 3, and I'm instantly turned off since Nintendo intentionally does small runs s they can sell their overpriced full price eshop versions.
In fairness I've not been wow'd by the PS4 either. I got this sweet deal on a new one on ebay which came with 5 packed in games new I didn't want, sold them, and with the deal, I got it for $200. I have maybe 11 games for it, have had 2 others, but I never play it long as it can't hold me either so most hours have been streaming movies and blu rays, but it got more use just by time now than the WiiU but that's not saying much, but at least it gave me variety of 1st and 3rd party enjoyment on rehash and new fun experiences too. I've got more use out of 3DS and my laptop, secondarily on after market old stuff all things Gameboy.
If you'd like FACTS about the NX, you can check the OP here
https://gbatemp.net/threads/baseless-nintendo-nx-speculation-thread.387352/
You could also keep speculating while you're there
https://gbatemp.net/threads/baseless-nintendo-nx-speculation-thread.387352/
You could also keep speculating while you're there
Those are hardly facts. It's just Nintendo double talk, details of what they hope to produce in a quarter or sales projections, and speculation about patents that may or may not relate. It doesn't actually say anything that could be considered tangible specs or how the design of the system is setup. That's the problem, so yeah I'd like FACTS not the irrelevant info people have guessed out and the non-answer answers from Nintendo of what they hope for. I've read it all it's not like I'm ignoring things.
Fact is if Nintendo is going to talk about the concept and some snippets of info between March and May, perhaps then one can get a basic feel for what they're after in the lead up to June with E3 when they'll need to unveil it. Don't care to speculate anymore than what I have on other sites in the past which all run up against things Nintendo has said about in print or video. The problem is some of it could be attributed even to the DENA deal instead of hardware so it's all just a big question mark they're buttoned up tight about at this rate.
Fact is if Nintendo is going to talk about the concept and some snippets of info between March and May, perhaps then one can get a basic feel for what they're after in the lead up to June with E3 when they'll need to unveil it. Don't care to speculate anymore than what I have on other sites in the past which all run up against things Nintendo has said about in print or video. The problem is some of it could be attributed even to the DENA deal instead of hardware so it's all just a big question mark they're buttoned up tight about at this rate.
They're facts in the sense that it is tangible concepts about what Nintendo has come up with, not necessarily that it will be what the finished product looks like
gbatemp lost member because community is childish
Last edited by nintendarium,
Nintendo innovation/not being the norm list then, starting with the N64* as their main departure from the "standards" of the day, I will ignore the business side of things for now despite it also being good stuff to look at (them thinking they are king when they are not and have not been for decades).
*the SNES library was the last unarguably great and numerous one, look how many of those games are third party. To that end when people tell me third party is not necessary I have to laugh.
N64
Stuck with cartridges
Suspect 3d (though the Saturn and PS1 also suffered, the PS1 least of all but least is still far from nothing)
Hideous three pronged controller
Net result
Missed several games owing to size issues and possibly cost for space, missed out on some music and video driven content. Did have low/no loading times used to great effect for several games though.
Brought the idea of the analogue thumbstick to popularity, specific model used entirely disregarded by all and laughed at to this day.
Smash brothers I guess did introduce the concept of the mascot brawler to the west.
GC
Went optical. Though not officially DVD for whatever reason.
I guess they had a nice controller this time, some consider it one of the best ever made but I am less convinced of that.
Net result.
Missed several games owing to size issues and possibly cost for space, missed out on some music and video driven content.
Wii
Overclocked a gamecube where others were investing in considerably more powerful tech.
A waggle controller.
Net result
Drove off several devs by being hard/annoying to code for.
Made me a nice PC input device for a few things and an excellent presentation controller. Probably the only lightgun games worth mentioning this time around, certainly the better library of them, even if they paled compared to a real lightgun. Gamecube controller, classic controller or hold it sideways and suffer ended up the control method of choice still.
Being the gimmick of choice for a year or two did improve the bottom line I imagine.
Wii U
Overclocked a Wii where others were moving to more standardised (and powerful) tech.
Tablet controller, hyped "second screen"/asymmetric gameplay for consoles (which had existed in various forms for years elsewhere).
Net result.
Some pretty decent ports of PS360 titles but for the most part still an overclocked Wii. Some nice tech demos of second screen but mostly stuff that could have been done elsewhere, or was a nice map, inventory, menu and stats screen.
DS.
Touchscreen and dual screens.
Net result.
Touchscreen had some nice games made for it and its contribution to menus will be appreciated for many years. Dual screens, or perhaps the massive vertical aspect ratio, had some nice games made for it but most uses were inventory, stats, maps and menus and could theoretically have been made for the GBA (though I am certainly thankful for it).
3ds.
Not a lot other than a better 3d api/hardware setup. Though the device was underpowered, even by Nintendo handheld standards, for the day it finally got some real competition.
Net result
Unsure and kind of still playing out.
Most third party devs from the GBA and DS evaporated and/or went to andrios, or also ported to andrios (and possibly in superior form). For my money the library is considerably worse than the GBA/DS one for this.
Anyway as you said you were not so interested in that as much as whether there is a secret cabal of anti nintendo and another of pro nintendo boosters out there working to undermine the poor hard done by Nintendo. Some of that is called marketing and attempts at grass roots marketing have long been shown to be effective (these days the "viral" part of it seems to be the dominant one but it has otherwise been known about for years). There may well be a secret cabal but I tend to find most secret societies are more about 1) finding some people to have some drinks with and 2) possibly some freaky sex stuff. Good old Hanlon's razor has to appear here (never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by stupidity). Though on the matter of stupidity I am not sure your characterisation of those that might ponder whether Nintendo has what it takes to remain a valuable/relevant cultural force (and if we do not care about money that is pretty much all that is left).
Do journalists, such as they are in the games industry, accentuate the negative? Absolutely as it works to draw in readers, however I tend to find such people pretty negative about everything (it is not the only way to approach journalism but it is a good one). At very best for your theory you might find some of those might not go after Sony and MS as fervently, which is a kind of favouritism I guess. Would this happen more in the run up to things? Absolutely but if are going where the audience is then that is to be expected. Assuming it does "work" and Nintendo loses sales for the negative for the sake of negative press coverage should we as game playing types care? You are free to do otherwise but I would go with no as a general rule.
Third parties and publishers? Such people tend to want money and things that will get more money and not a lot else. I would not be surprised to hear some kind of tactical leak got done to attempt to spur Nintendo into giving more favourable deals, such a thing is a time honoured strategy after all, and doubtless there is some dev out there that wants to fulfil a dream of writing a game for the Nintendo, or maybe some publisher has some mates that work at Nintendo and would like to continue doing business with them, so maybe they went above and beyond what was business savvy.
"acritically show hate whatever the news against Nintendo"
As in do not look into the deeper story? Yeah that does seem to be a problem, doubly so with what passes for journalism both in the modern world and especially in games. However it is a problem that reaches wide across everything. At the same time though it is still their job to impress me and word of quality will get out. If someone is making business decisions based upon such coverage and Nintendo gets impacted then has anything of value been lost?
That said the demographics of the "movement" and counter "movement" could be an interesting one to ponder, if only for me because I like to laugh at those wearing rose tinted glasses. So I would say the demographics would be
Those that think it is cool to bash Nintendo. I am not sure it is cool but it has not been universally uncool since the end of the SNES/the N64 was seen to flop.
Those that want their 8-16 (and apparently for some then also 64) bit childhood back.
Those that are ashamed of said childhood.
Those that picked (or were picked) the failing console and are responding in some way, see also fans of Sonic Adventure.
Those that want to watch something burn.
Those that might actually believe Nintendo offers the best hope for certain styles of game. Possible (I am not seeing the most 3d platformers, much less good ones, these days), however it is not the only way* and second best is not far behind.
Those that are invested (emotionally) in the company (odd people but hey) or their franchises (better than a company I guess).
There are probably others but I will leave it there for now.
*much like when people stopped trying to clone doom we got good games there I am sure we will see good mario kart clones once people sit down to make a good kart racer, ditto smash brothers (I would say pokemon but the GBA already saw several pokemon clones I hold as superior to pokemon of the day and since) and we will probably see the same when someone does the same for dota/moba games.
*the SNES library was the last unarguably great and numerous one, look how many of those games are third party. To that end when people tell me third party is not necessary I have to laugh.
N64
Stuck with cartridges
Suspect 3d (though the Saturn and PS1 also suffered, the PS1 least of all but least is still far from nothing)
Hideous three pronged controller
Net result
Missed several games owing to size issues and possibly cost for space, missed out on some music and video driven content. Did have low/no loading times used to great effect for several games though.
Brought the idea of the analogue thumbstick to popularity, specific model used entirely disregarded by all and laughed at to this day.
Smash brothers I guess did introduce the concept of the mascot brawler to the west.
GC
Went optical. Though not officially DVD for whatever reason.
I guess they had a nice controller this time, some consider it one of the best ever made but I am less convinced of that.
Net result.
Missed several games owing to size issues and possibly cost for space, missed out on some music and video driven content.
Wii
Overclocked a gamecube where others were investing in considerably more powerful tech.
A waggle controller.
Net result
Drove off several devs by being hard/annoying to code for.
Made me a nice PC input device for a few things and an excellent presentation controller. Probably the only lightgun games worth mentioning this time around, certainly the better library of them, even if they paled compared to a real lightgun. Gamecube controller, classic controller or hold it sideways and suffer ended up the control method of choice still.
Being the gimmick of choice for a year or two did improve the bottom line I imagine.
Wii U
Overclocked a Wii where others were moving to more standardised (and powerful) tech.
Tablet controller, hyped "second screen"/asymmetric gameplay for consoles (which had existed in various forms for years elsewhere).
Net result.
Some pretty decent ports of PS360 titles but for the most part still an overclocked Wii. Some nice tech demos of second screen but mostly stuff that could have been done elsewhere, or was a nice map, inventory, menu and stats screen.
DS.
Touchscreen and dual screens.
Net result.
Touchscreen had some nice games made for it and its contribution to menus will be appreciated for many years. Dual screens, or perhaps the massive vertical aspect ratio, had some nice games made for it but most uses were inventory, stats, maps and menus and could theoretically have been made for the GBA (though I am certainly thankful for it).
3ds.
Not a lot other than a better 3d api/hardware setup. Though the device was underpowered, even by Nintendo handheld standards, for the day it finally got some real competition.
Net result
Unsure and kind of still playing out.
Most third party devs from the GBA and DS evaporated and/or went to andrios, or also ported to andrios (and possibly in superior form). For my money the library is considerably worse than the GBA/DS one for this.
Anyway as you said you were not so interested in that as much as whether there is a secret cabal of anti nintendo and another of pro nintendo boosters out there working to undermine the poor hard done by Nintendo. Some of that is called marketing and attempts at grass roots marketing have long been shown to be effective (these days the "viral" part of it seems to be the dominant one but it has otherwise been known about for years). There may well be a secret cabal but I tend to find most secret societies are more about 1) finding some people to have some drinks with and 2) possibly some freaky sex stuff. Good old Hanlon's razor has to appear here (never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by stupidity). Though on the matter of stupidity I am not sure your characterisation of those that might ponder whether Nintendo has what it takes to remain a valuable/relevant cultural force (and if we do not care about money that is pretty much all that is left).
Do journalists, such as they are in the games industry, accentuate the negative? Absolutely as it works to draw in readers, however I tend to find such people pretty negative about everything (it is not the only way to approach journalism but it is a good one). At very best for your theory you might find some of those might not go after Sony and MS as fervently, which is a kind of favouritism I guess. Would this happen more in the run up to things? Absolutely but if are going where the audience is then that is to be expected. Assuming it does "work" and Nintendo loses sales for the negative for the sake of negative press coverage should we as game playing types care? You are free to do otherwise but I would go with no as a general rule.
Third parties and publishers? Such people tend to want money and things that will get more money and not a lot else. I would not be surprised to hear some kind of tactical leak got done to attempt to spur Nintendo into giving more favourable deals, such a thing is a time honoured strategy after all, and doubtless there is some dev out there that wants to fulfil a dream of writing a game for the Nintendo, or maybe some publisher has some mates that work at Nintendo and would like to continue doing business with them, so maybe they went above and beyond what was business savvy.
"acritically show hate whatever the news against Nintendo"
As in do not look into the deeper story? Yeah that does seem to be a problem, doubly so with what passes for journalism both in the modern world and especially in games. However it is a problem that reaches wide across everything. At the same time though it is still their job to impress me and word of quality will get out. If someone is making business decisions based upon such coverage and Nintendo gets impacted then has anything of value been lost?
That said the demographics of the "movement" and counter "movement" could be an interesting one to ponder, if only for me because I like to laugh at those wearing rose tinted glasses. So I would say the demographics would be
Those that think it is cool to bash Nintendo. I am not sure it is cool but it has not been universally uncool since the end of the SNES/the N64 was seen to flop.
Those that want their 8-16 (and apparently for some then also 64) bit childhood back.
Those that are ashamed of said childhood.
Those that picked (or were picked) the failing console and are responding in some way, see also fans of Sonic Adventure.
Those that want to watch something burn.
Those that might actually believe Nintendo offers the best hope for certain styles of game. Possible (I am not seeing the most 3d platformers, much less good ones, these days), however it is not the only way* and second best is not far behind.
Those that are invested (emotionally) in the company (odd people but hey) or their franchises (better than a company I guess).
There are probably others but I will leave it there for now.
*much like when people stopped trying to clone doom we got good games there I am sure we will see good mario kart clones once people sit down to make a good kart racer, ditto smash brothers (I would say pokemon but the GBA already saw several pokemon clones I hold as superior to pokemon of the day and since) and we will probably see the same when someone does the same for dota/moba games.
People can hate all they want and brag about specs all day long. It NO LONGER MATTERS. I see that consoles are trying to compete with high end pcs ( excepts for Wii U maybe) . That's unhealthy as far as I can see.
Consumers and the media have become more demanding than ever and care about specs much more than gameplay. That's why there is so much hate for the Wii U. My opinion? I love the wii u and I buy its games. I literally have never thought about owning Xone or PS4 since they barely have exclusives. I can play nearly all their games on my pc just fine.
There was a time when Microsoft and Sony consoles were worth buying. PS2/3 Xbox/360. They had exclusives that were enough to justify owning one. Now is no longer the case,in my opinion.
I think the danger that is lurking around is smartphones and specs war.
I miss those days when gameplay was the decisive reason to buy games and consoles.
Consumers and the media have become more demanding than ever and care about specs much more than gameplay. That's why there is so much hate for the Wii U. My opinion? I love the wii u and I buy its games. I literally have never thought about owning Xone or PS4 since they barely have exclusives. I can play nearly all their games on my pc just fine.
There was a time when Microsoft and Sony consoles were worth buying. PS2/3 Xbox/360. They had exclusives that were enough to justify owning one. Now is no longer the case,in my opinion.
I think the danger that is lurking around is smartphones and specs war.
I miss those days when gameplay was the decisive reason to buy games and consoles.
It still is: if you shoot in first person it sells. If it has some stats somewhere and pretends to be an rpg with a fair bit of repetition, it sells even better.
The thing that I hate about people saying that modern consoles need to compete with the PC market is that there IS no way for anyone to directly compete with the PC gaming market that makes sense. PCs are by design fully modular and can be upgraded to be as powerful as possible within the users budget at the time whenever they want, whereas a console is fixed in its current state unless a hardware refresh comes along, splitting the userbase. I'm not saying its healthy for companies to stay on antiquated hardware (seriously Nintendo?? You're still using PPC????), but telling Nintendo that they need to design a 4K ready x64 beast of a machine to compete with the next console generation is not only infeasible and unnecessary, but stupid from both an programming and financial standpoint
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