Hardware Nvidia Tegra chip to be used in 3DS?

[VmprHntrD]

Look all I know for a fact and you have no reason to believe me, but I do know the system should put out a visual level in the range of the Gamecube along with this '3D' style they're going with it too. I was told this just because my brother works for a branch of THQ and they get to see these things far earlier than we do.

April Fools!

Nah it was posted in March, so I'm quite serious. I don't play stupid games like that, never been a fan of the holiday. All it is to me is my wife's b'day nothing more or less.

 

[granville]

@TM2-Megatron

I know the original DS included the GBA "bones" so to speak. But in that case, it was used to power new DS games as well, developers could use the GBA ARM7 processor in conjugation with the ARM9 to make DS games using both processors. So again, they did upgrade it significantly, but while keeping the old hardware to enhance the new. ARM processors can be compatible with one another to an extent, or at least be used together as we've seen. Tegra on the other hand, would not be compatible at all as it is a completely different CPU architecture. Again, maybe Nintendo knows something i don't. But i somewhat doubt they could overclock an existing ARM processor high enough to be comparable to the Gamecube in graphics.

@Rydian

The iPlayer's ARM9 CPU is MORE powerful than the DS'. I would guess it's overclocked, but it's definitely more powerful. It's the secondary DSP that has the real oomph. I'm glad you mentioned that though. It made me think of something else. If they can fit a processor with a clock speed near that of a Gamecube inside that tiny ass little chip with as little impact on heat and battery life, perhaps they COULD fit all the old DS hardware in 3DS AND the new tech... That would be interesting. At the current time, we don't really know exactly what kind of power the iPlayer can output when it comes to 3D graphics though. Its CPU wasn't really built for 3D gaming. It does have the means of playing GBA games by itself, but currently that emulator is quite slow and inferior to the PSP GBA emulator (which it is a port of). That being said, i don't think that the iPlayer + DS is as powerful as Gamecube. Again though, we'll see what Nintendo does. Maybe they'll make a new dedicated GPU of sorts...

 

[chartube12]

It's possible the 3ds will have the Tegra 2 chip and an ARM9. Look how small nano flash cells are getting. Maybe nintendo found a way to make both the ds and 3ds motherboard small enough to fit them both in one system. I know that would cost an arm and leg though.

Maybe nintendo found away with Nvidia to make a new chip design. One with the architecture of the arm9 but with the power and speed of a tegra? Who knows though.

One thing for sure, E3 is going to be filled with lots of excitement this year.

 

[Jakob95]

Look at the iPod Touch. Its so slim, and has a huge CPU.

 

[granville]

Look at the iPod Touch. Its so slim, and has a huge CPU.

Don't misunderstand me, i'd never say that they couldn't cram in a CPU in something tiny or anything. My main issue with the tech rumors is the fact that they have announced back compatibility with it. They'll have to cram THREE CPU's in the thing if they intend to use Tegra and have back compatibility with DS/DSi games. And unless they manage to somehow shrink the ARM 7 and 9 processors physically, reduce the heat output, and manage the power efficiently, there would probably be a problem there. At least going from GBA to DS, the CPU's were compatible and they found a way to use the old ARM7 in cooperation with the new DS ARM9. The problem here is that going from ARM to Tegra is changing CPU architecture and i can't imagine the two different kinds of CPU's being compatible without some serious issues or whatever.

And who knows? Maybe they HAVE found a way to reduce the size of the processors and manage power. Or perhaps they know how to use ARM and Tegra in cooperation. At any rate, you WOULD need both the ARM 7 and 9 to run DS/DSi games. So you would indeed need to cram 3 processors in the system if the Tegra Rumor is true. And again, i doubt you can emulate the DS hardware using Tegra either. Emulation is usually not something Nintendo does when it comes to back compatibility. Even the Wii hardware was build off Gamecube hardware. My speculation is that once again, they might just build even more off of the current DS/DSi hardware and simple provide faster ARM processors. If they do, i'm not sure if we will see Gamecube power.

 

[chartube12]

The gba's arm 7 was removed from the dsi. My understanding they made the dsi/xl's arm9 a dual core. One equal to the speed of the arm7 and am9 combined.

 

[granville]

I've heard nothing of the sort. Some of the GBA hardware was removed, but the ARM7 stayed. They need the ARM7 for some DS games to function. Adding another ARM9 will not automatically substitute the ARM7. I've never heard anything of removing the ARM7 OR adding another ARM9. Again, DS games need both processors. The only difference apparently is that the ARM9 was overclocked and they added more internal memory. And they added internal storage, but that's not related to the system processing. Unless you have a source, i'm not buying that. >_>

 

[TM2-Megatron]

Tegra on the other hand, would not be compatible at all as it is a completely different CPU architecture. Again, maybe Nintendo knows something i don't. But i somewhat doubt they could overclock an existing ARM processor high enough to be comparable to the Gamecube in graphics

The Tegra does contain some kind of ARM processor, though, doesn't it? Wikipedia says it has an ARM11 at 600Mhz, whereas the Tegra 2 has some kind of "dual core ARM cortex" (whatever that is). So despite using ARM, Tegra is that different than the old ARM7 and 9's?

 

[Bumpman]

Tegra on the other hand, would not be compatible at all as it is a completely different CPU architecture. Again, maybe Nintendo knows something i don't. But i somewhat doubt they could overclock an existing ARM processor high enough to be comparable to the Gamecube in graphics

The Tegra does contain some kind of ARM processor, though, doesn't it? Wikipedia says it has an ARM11 at 600Mhz, whereas the Tegra 2 has some kind of "dual core ARM cortex" (whatever that is). So despite using ARM, Tegra is that different than the old ARM7 and 9's?

The tegra could easilly emulate the arm7
And 2 proccessors CAN'T hurt.

 

[_Chaz_]

Tegra on the other hand, would not be compatible at all as it is a completely different CPU architecture. Again, maybe Nintendo knows something i don't. But i somewhat doubt they could overclock an existing ARM processor high enough to be comparable to the Gamecube in graphics

The Tegra does contain some kind of ARM processor, though, doesn't it? Wikipedia says it has an ARM11 at 600Mhz, whereas the Tegra 2 has some kind of "dual core ARM cortex" (whatever that is). So despite using ARM, Tegra is that different than the old ARM7 and 9's?

The tegra could easilly emulate the arm7
And 2 proccessors CAN'T hurt.

More proccessors can never hurt.

 

[granville]

I just now noticed that Tegra DOES indeed build itself off ARM technology. I wasn't aware of that at all, so you can sort of disregard what i said. I had no idea that it was sort of in the same family. That changes some stuff I would think. According to wikipedia (which you can choose not to believe of course), Tegra is a mashup of an ARM processor, a GPU, and several memory controllers. So it's kind of like an ultra CPU for portables that can do almost everything. And assuming it IS indeed based on the ARM architecture, it might be feasible to run DS games on it. After all, games intended to be run on a pentium 1 processor can still be made to run on recent hardware. I can easily install an old version of windows on a new PC to get all those old games to run fine. Same might work with DS games. We'll see. Though i still doubt Tegra could emulate the regular DS/DSi. And it's not something Nintendo would be likely to do. If anything, it will be more akin to compatibility mode for Wii that lets you run Gamecube games.

So yeah, consider my before comments disregarded. We'll see what happens. Still really no confirmation on anything about the hardware yet. Too early to jump to conclusions.

 

[_Chaz_]

I just now noticed that Tegra DOES indeed build itself off ARM technology. I wasn't aware of that at all, so you can sort of disregard what i said. I had no idea that it was sort of in the same family. That changes some stuff I would think. According to wikipedia (which you can choose not to believe of course), Tegra is a mashup of an ARM processor, a GPU, and several memory controllers. So it's kind of like an ultra CPU for portables that can do almost everything. And assuming it IS indeed based on the ARM architecture, it might be feasible to run DS games on it. After all, games intended to be run on a pentium 1 processor can still be made to run on recent hardware. I can easily install an old version of windows on a new PC to get all those old games to run fine. Same might work with DS games. We'll see. Though i still doubt Tegra could emulate the regular DS/DSi. And it's not something Nintendo would be likely to do. If anything, it will be more akin to compatibility mode for Wii that lets you run Gamecube games.

So yeah, consider my before comments disregarded. We'll see what happens. Still really no confirmation on anything about the hardware yet. Too early to jump to conclusions.

Awesomeness.

 

[TM2-Megatron]

I just now noticed that Tegra DOES indeed build itself off ARM technology. I wasn't aware of that at all, so you can sort of disregard what i said. I had no idea that it was sort of in the same family. That changes some stuff I would think. According to wikipedia (which you can choose not to believe of course), Tegra is a mashup of an ARM processor, a GPU, and several memory controllers. So it's kind of like an ultra CPU for portables that can do almost everything. And assuming it IS indeed based on the ARM architecture, it might be feasible to run DS games on it. After all, games intended to be run on a pentium 1 processor can still be made to run on recent hardware. I can easily install an old version of windows on a new PC to get all those old games to run fine. Same might work with DS games. We'll see. Though i still doubt Tegra could emulate the regular DS/DSi. And it's not something Nintendo would be likely to do. If anything, it will be more akin to compatibility mode for Wii that lets you run Gamecube games.

So yeah, consider my before comments disregarded. We'll see what happens. Still really no confirmation on anything about the hardware yet. Too early to jump to conclusions.

It's also apparently very energy-efficient. Personally, this Tegra or Tegra 2 rumour is really one I'm hoping is true... these seem like such a perfect choice for a handheld. I know Nintendo prefers gameplay over graphics, but I think this is a time they should try to focus on both. They won't be able to beat whatever the PSP2 will have, but Gamecube-level graphics will be more than enough... current rumours place the PSP2 to be drastically overpowered, IMO. Same mistake Sony made with the PS3... really just too much.

 

[granville]

Well in my personal opinion, game graphics in terms of 3D-polygons was perfected in the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox era anyways. I really don't think systems NEED much more power to deliver a satisfying gaming experience. N64/PS1 generation introduced us into the polygon age and even did it right the first time. The PS2/GC/Xbox era perfected it IMO. I don't think you really need more than that in essence. The gameplay experience is just perfect. And I don't think having an overpowered PSP will do them any favors. You'd think they learned their lesson with PS3 (good system or not)

 

[Anakir]

It's also apparently very energy-efficient. Personally, this Tegra or Tegra 2 rumour is really one I'm hoping is true... these seem like such a perfect choice for a handheld. I know Nintendo prefers gameplay over graphics, but I think this is a time they should try to focus on both. They won't be able to beat whatever the PSP2 will have, but Gamecube-level graphics will be more than enough... current rumours place the PSP2 to be drastically overpowered, IMO. Same mistake Sony made with the PS3... really just too much.

There's a big difference for over powered consoles compared to over powered handhelds. Main difference is its portability. I'm sure many would choose a powerful handheld over a console any day as its convenient to take it out anywhere to play with your friends. I, for one, would choose handhelds over consoles. I spend a lot of time commuting; portable games is a big selling point. Consoles are great when you have access to a television.

 

[TM2-Megatron]

It's also apparently very energy-efficient. Personally, this Tegra or Tegra 2 rumour is really one I'm hoping is true... these seem like such a perfect choice for a handheld. I know Nintendo prefers gameplay over graphics, but I think this is a time they should try to focus on both. They won't be able to beat whatever the PSP2 will have, but Gamecube-level graphics will be more than enough... current rumours place the PSP2 to be drastically overpowered, IMO. Same mistake Sony made with the PS3... really just too much.

There's a big difference for over powered consoles compared to over powered handhelds. Main difference is its portability. I'm sure many would choose a powerful handheld over a console any day as its convenient to take it out anywhere to play with your friends. I, for one, would choose handhelds over consoles. I spend a lot of time commuting; portable games is a big selling point. Consoles are great when you have access to a television.

If the 3DS is going to match or exceed a Gamecube, I don't see how that isn't "powerful". It just won't be as powerful as a PSP2; but in turn the PSP2 will probably be overpriced (too much for many people), and not out as early as the 3DS. And really, how much real, discernable difference do you think there's going to be on a handheld-sized screen between Gamecube-level graphics and those that slightly outdo an XBox (assuming the PSP2 will really be able to match this).

Both are powerful, IMO. However I think the 3DS will be just powerful enough, whereas the PSP2 will be grossly overpowered to the point of no longer being affordable (which was one of the same problems the PS3 had; the hardware was just too excessive for its time).

 

[chartube12]

I've heard nothing of the sort. Some of the GBA hardware was removed, but the ARM7 stayed. They need the ARM7 for some DS games to function. Adding another ARM9 will not automatically substitute the ARM7. I've never heard anything of removing the ARM7 OR adding another ARM9. Again, DS games need both processors. The only difference apparently is that the ARM9 was overclocked and they added more internal memory. And they added internal storage, but that's not related to the system processing. Unless you have a source, i'm not buying that. >_>

Do you even know what dual core means? It does mean having two of the same cpu. It means a CPU with the power of two. I have a nintendo power from when the dsi was first annouced. It clearly states they removed the arm7 chip.

The tegra chips are not a super cpu. I get so annoyed when people call it that. No it's two chips built into one and is refered to as a chip on chip processer. Combining a cpu and gpu into one dye. call it a cpu gpu hybrid. Don't ever call it a super cpu.

 

[Rydian]

The iPlayer's ARM9 CPU is MORE powerful than the DS'.

DS: ARM946E-S
529DMIPS @ 441mhz
iPlayer: ARM926EJ-S
517DMIPS @ 470mhz

The iPlayer's performance is rated lower than that of the DS's processor, even at a higher clock speed, so there's gotta' be some serious-ass overclocking going on in there.

 

[Sir-Fritz]

2 cores != 2 processors.

 

[TyrianCubed]

since ATI has already developed a low power consumption version of the Flipper (the GC video processor) wouldn't it make more sense for Nintendo to use the "handheld flipper" for the 3DS? I think that's what is going to be used.