Hardware Non-permanent RRoD?

[Sicklyboy]

The screws by themselves won't hold the heatsinks in place (Unless you screw it through the chassis). Re-use the xclamps, they work fine after taking them off.

 

[CIAwesome526]

The screws by themselves won't hold the heatsinks in place (Unless you screw it through the chassis). Re-use the xclamps, they work fine after taking them off.

ok, just tell me how I'm supposed to put it back togethor, because it seems Microsoft did little right with this.

 

[Sicklyboy]

Carefully use a small flathead screwdriver to ease the xclamps back on post by post. The third one will probably be the only slightly difficult one, then the last one just has to be pried into place a bit. Just be careful to not slip.

 

[CIAwesome526]

Carefully use a small flathead screwdriver to ease the xclamps back on post by post. The third one will probably be the only slightly difficult one, then the last one just has to be pried into place a bit. Just be careful to not slip.

Ok, I still need the paste tho.

 

[puss2puss]

no Sickly, the screws will actually hold the heatsinks in place, if you get the right size. I've done atleast an hundred rrod in the last 4-5 years and i can assure you, it hold perfectly. You also need some small disc to put between the the board and the heatsink, to fill the gap, i dont remember the exact size for the small disc and the screws, but look google for 'rrod fix x clamp screws' .

I definitly suggest to not re-use the xclamps! You risk scratching circuits while snapping them back together, unless you are used to play in these stuff.. wich i dont think its the case

I suggest you look on google for the right size screws and disc (tiny metal disc..domt know how its called in english..) you need 8 screws, and 16 riny disc wich are about 0.10$ per pieces.

As for the mayonnaise, i know you find it funny but it could have been true, seeing how you handle and treat your xbox right from the start you didnt seem to care about the console so i totally beleive you've used mayonnaise.. XD

 

[HaloEffect17]

As for the mayonnaise, i know you find it funny but it could have been true, seeing how you handle and treat your xbox right from the start you didnt seem to care about the console so i totally beleive you've used mayonnaise.. XD

Ok... I just read this thread to its entirety to get the context.

So, he didn't use mayonnaise according to the shoutbox -- he only wanted to see the reactions of people?

Spoiler: Shoutbox

I have to share this with people, the reactions are great. I dont know if everyone fell for the mayo thing or if they are juat playung along. Either way, i love it

Even though you're joking, it doesn't really sit well with me since there are people legitimately trying to help you out and you decide to throw a curve ball like that. @puss2puss was one of many who was trying to help you out right from the start, and you pull this "mayo" thing? Not sure if I would do that, but ok... gotta admit it was kind of funny when you mentioned it. LOL.

One would have to go full-retard to use mayo like that. Haha.

 

[CIAwesome526]

Ok... I just read this thread to its entirety to get the context.

So, he didn't use mayonnaise according to the shoutbox -- he only wanted to see the reactions of people?

Spoiler: Shoutbox

I have to share this with people, the reactions are great. I dont know if everyone fell for the mayo thing or if they are juat playung along. Either way, i love it

Even though you're joking, it doesn't really sit well with me since there are people legitimately trying to help you out and you decide to throw a curve ball like that. @puss2puss was one of many who was trying to help you out right from the start, and you pull this "mayo" thing? Not sure if I would do that, but ok... gotta admit it was kind of funny when you mentioned it. LOL.

One would have to go full-retard to use mayo like that. Haha.

Yeah, I think I took it far.. it was meant to be a small joke. I didn't know how to end it without people thinking I was just an idiot trying to make people think I wasn't an idiot.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

no Sickly, the screws will actually hold the heatsinks in place, if you get the right size. I've done atleast an hundred rrod in the last 4-5 years and i can assure you, it hold perfectly. You also need some small disc to put between the the board and the heatsink, to fill the gap, i dont remember the exact size for the small disc and the screws, but look google for 'rrod fix x clamp screws' .

I definitly suggest to not re-use the xclamps! You risk scratching circuits while snapping them back together, unless you are used to play in these stuff.. wich i dont think its the case

I suggest you look on google for the right size screws and disc (tiny metal disc..domt know how its called in english..) you need 8 screws, and 16 riny disc wich are about 0.10$ per pieces.

As for the mayonnaise, i know you find it funny but it could have been true, seeing how you handle and treat your xbox right from the start you didnt seem to care about the console so i totally beleive you've used mayonnaise.. XD

I think you mean washer. Also, I do repair computers and old consoles (mostly handhelds) but I usually just buy old consoles with my money so it's rare I see newer consoles and they are fixed differently, usually. Also, what do you mean about the way I treat my console. I did exactly what you said, I spent hours scraping off thermal gunk, the only mistreatment it got was being put in an oven, which was suggested by you, and worked. Refusing to spend tons of money isn't the same as smashing it on the ground to open the case, if you didn't know already, I'm a 15 year old that gets only a small amount of money buying broken things on eBay or a flea market, fixing them, then reselling them, or fixing the computers/tv's of my neighbors.

I reread it and it sounded a bit mean to me, it wasn't meant to be mean in any way.

 

[KSP]

Holy shit can't believe this thread went on for 5 pages.

This is typical RROD scenario, turns on freezes, then RROD, then randomly turns on, freezes again.

There is no way to fix this. You can reflow it, you can towel it, you can even go as far as taking the whole system apart and reapply heat paste and replace with X Clamps, but it will RROD again in due time.

Why is there even 5 pages of false hope for this poor guy. Just trash the console, its worthless. The solder points have disconnected from the mobo, there is no permanent fix for this, even MS's official policy is to replace the unit. RROD is hopeless, just trash it and buy a NEW system. In the future don't buy junk from flea markets. And please don't try to trick some poor chump on craigslist by trying resell a lemon, that's amoral.

RROD means done, nothing on Earth can fix it, reflow, X Clamp, reball, etc, etc, etc. All useless and a waste of time and money, think about all the time and $$$ you spent on heat paste, tin foil, washers, bolts, and crap. You could have cured cancer in that time.

 

[puss2puss]

Holy shit can't believe this thread went on for 5 pages.

This is typical RROD scenario, turns on freezes, then RROD, then randomly turns on, freezes again.

There is no way to fix this. You can reflow it, you can towel it, you can even go as far as taking the whole system apart and reapply heat paste and replace with X Clamps, but it will RROD again in due time.

Why is there even 5 pages of false hope for this poor guy. Just trash the console, its worthless. The solder points have disconnected from the mobo, there is no permanent fix for this, even MS's official policy is to replace the unit. RROD is hopeless, just trash it and buy a NEW system. In the future don't buy junk from flea markets. And please don't try to trick some poor chump on craigslist by trying resell a lemon, that's amoral.

RROD means done, nothing on Earth can fix it, reflow, X Clamp, reball, etc, etc, etc. All useless and a waste of time and money, think about all the time you spent on heat paste, tin foil, washers, bolts, and man hour. You could have cured cancer in that time.

Typical noob with a useless comment just for the heck of posting something..

@CIAawesome : no no dont worry i wasnt 100% serious.. its not my intention to sound mean to you, when i said the way you treat your console, i meant the mayonnaise (wich was actually a joke lol..) and about the fact that you powered it a couple of time without thermal paste and all.. but like i said, i wasnt 100% serious

Anyway, sorry if i have sound mean, no hard feeling i hope, friend.
Let us know when you get thermal paste.

 

[KSP]

Typical noob with a useless comment just for the heck of posting something..

@CIAawesome : no no dont worry i wasnt 100% serious.. its not my intention to sound mean to you, when i said the way you treat your console, i meant the mayonnaise (wich was actually a joke lol..) and about the fact that you powered it a couple of time without thermal paste and all.. but like i said, i wasnt 100% serious

Anyway, sorry if i have sound mean, no hard feeling i hope, friend.
Let us know when you get thermal paste.

Hope your not calling me a noob. Been around since the start of GBAtemp, I don't post much here, since I'm on the other forum. But certainly not a noob.
If this post appeared on another forum, you'd get one answer that RROD are a lost cause, any veteran modder will tell you that. No need to waste a minute on a genuine RROD. I've stripped systems down to the bones, and have never see a permanent fix for a RROD.

A complete strip down and a reflow with X Clamp method and arctic silver will buy you 1 month tops before it RRODs again. Waste of time.

 

[puss2puss]

Hope your not calling me a noob. Been around since the start of GBAtemp, I don't post much here, since I'm on the other forum. But certainly not a noob.
If this post appeared on another forum, you'd get one answer that RROD are a lost cause, any veteran modder will tell you that. No need to waste a minute on a genuine RROD. I've stripped systems down to the bones, and have never see a permanent fix for a RROD.

A complete strip down and a reflow with X Clamp method and arctic silver will buy you 1 month tops before it RRODs again. Waste of time.

Well, you sound like a noob since you arrive on the thread to say to get rid of it and that its lost cause..
But dont take it bad, its just that you didnt have to come with your negativity, espacially for false thinking..

Honestly, you may have stripped some console, but what you just said proove that you dont have real experience with rrods.. i'm not trying to be bad or anything, but you say there's no real fix and it will give you 1 month top, but its actually means that you didnt study it enough..

Personnally, most of the rrod i fix never rrod again or last minimum 5 months, why? because not everyone fix them the same way..the main reason why rrods fixed dont last more then a month is necause of the person who fix it.
you may have stripped some xbox, but you dont have a reballing station to do the right job.. try studiyng how reballing processor chips works and you'il see a huge difference of success with those fuckers with red lights

..sorry if i sound mean..it hust piss me off when new users being there negativity in other's thread just for a lack of experience..wich is normal if its not your job, i.m not saying you're a noin for that

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

If this post appeared on another forum, you'd get one answer that RROD are a lost cause, any veteran modder will tell you that.

I agree, but you dont have to be a sheep.

 

[KSP]

Bottom line is RROD is unfixable. You can get 1 month, 2 month, 3 months if your lucky, but it'll RROD again guaranteed. The mobo is already warped, so the contacts cannot be stabilized with any method. A master reflow, may get you a few more months, but it'll still RROD. It's a lost cause.

The problem lies in the manufacturing process of the older consoles. So basically what's the point? Its like trying to sell someone snake oil, it doesn't work.

RROD fixes are temporary solutions to a problem that cannot be fixed. That's why there's no point in making this poor guy buy tin foil, run up his electric bill, buy washers, and bolts, and torx sets and etc, etc.

 

[CIAwesome526]

Holy shit can't believe this thread went on for 5 pages.

well, these people weree nice enough to help me, it seems you would just be the kind of person who is like "o gawd anuther thred, joost goh heer, prublem solv'd!" A.K.A. the person who doesnt help at all.

Bottom line is RROD is unfixable. You can get 1 month, 2 month, 3 months if your lucky, but it'll RROD again guaranteed. The mobo is already warped, so the contacts cannot be stabilized with any method. A master reflow, may get you a few more months, but it'll still RROD. It's a lost cause.

The problem lies in the manufacturing process of the older consoles. So basically what's the point? Its like trying to sell someone snake oil, it doesn't work.

RROD fixes are temporary solutions to a problem that cannot be fixed. That's why there's no point in making this poor guy buy tin foil, run up his electric bill, buy washers, and bolts, and torx sets and etc, etc.

just so yo know, i spent a total of $18 on this, includng the price of the console. People sell these on ebay and amazon all the time saying "brand new sealed box!" but, that console is just as likely to fail as mine because like you said, its how its made. i,on the other hand, will say it may red ring of death, and that it has been repaired by me, that way anyone who buys it knows they are taking a risk using this console, instead of buying one new to have it RRoD without warning. if people are worried it will fail, they dont buy it, and im fine with that, because i will use it.

 

[mechagouki]

In actual fact RROD can often be fixed by a simple disassemble, thorough cleaning and application of new high performance thermal paste (Arctic Silver 5 is my favourite).

If a 360 hasn't been opened and f'd about with previously the fresh thermal paste will often improve heat conductivity to the point that the board will not warp enough to cause the hardware failure.

Adding a push fan to the case above the heatsink (very, very easy mod) will further improve cooling, at the expense of a little extra noise (nothing compared to 12V fan-mod).

I fixed several Zephyrs like this, and to my knowledge only one of them relapsed to RROD, my personal Zephyr was used daily for 2 years after doing these things, and was still working fine when I replaced it with a Falcon (dead DVD drive). I've never fixed a Xenon like this though, just don't seem to be many around any more.

All that heat gun, clamp mod, towel trick stuff is pretty much unnecessary waste of your time, and will actually put the console in a worse place in terms of extending its useful life.

 

[puss2puss]

... there's no point in making this poor guy buy tin foil, run up his electric bill, buy washers, and bolts, and torx sets and etc, etc.

Worste excuse i.ve heard lo..honestly, if you think about it, wouldnt you find this funny if someone would tell you that? "poor guy need tin foil, run up his electric bill, buy washers..." what, d'you live in a cave or something?? Its less electricity then making some pillsbury cookies, and less then 10$ material since lots of people already have some tools at home.. lol.. run up his electric bill lol.. come on, domt be one of those peeps who defends there point to the point of saying nonsense, pretty sure you're more logic ten that

You can get 1 month, 2 month, 3 months if your lucky, but it'll RROD again guaranteed. The mobo is already warped, so the contacts cannot be stabilized with any method. A master reflow, may get you a few more months, but it'll still RROD. It's a lost cause.

As i said before, every rrod i dixed with a true reballing never rrod again for minimum 5 months, and lots of them lasted for years, and my two personal fixed i keep for myselft never rrod again and its been for atleast 3-5 years now (not sure exactly, i dont count the years..).
You dont know what a reballing is and its okay, but atleast dont come and talk negativity just for some lack of experience!
Beleive me, there's no such thing as ''contacts that cannot be stabilized'' ..

I will try to explain briefly the information you're missing, i'm sharing with you my knowledge..(and please, no need to be close minded and defensive! Learning is better!):
A reballing is completly removing the chips, removing old solders underneath them, re-balling it (putting back some new tiny solder balls under the chips...) and then reaplying the chips. And the reason why the problem is fixable, is by avoiding them to overheat again and by avoiding the board to bend under the cpu and gpu to avoid solder balls to seperate again, wich is why the x-clamps are bad on those boards.
When the board bends, the small balls under the chips get slightly seperated, but not when you replace the x-clamps and when you avoid the excess heat to get back to the point it already been before.

So please, dont bring your negative experiences here on a thread of someone with a rrod who's seeking for help, if its just to say that its hopeless juste because you dont know anything about reballing.

I hope you understand and learn instead of defend your point..
Peace!

 

[Sicklyboy]

@puss2puss replacing the xclamps with screws actually causes the board to flex MORE. That's why the xclamps have the plastic bit in the center to provide counter pressure in the center of the board. @DinohScene does an even better job of explaining it.

Replacing the xclamps with screws is a good way to kind of force it to work as you can torque the heatsink down so much that it literally pushes the chip closer to the board to force the BGA to connect. That on the other hand causes a ton of pressure on the center of the board.

I've reflowed a few xenons with a heatgun and replaced the xclamps with screws on some of them, but not all. And I think I've had more/quicker failures with the ones I've replaced the xclamps on than not. My best going one right now was one that I ended up cutting the heatsink and installing a 20mm fan over the cpu and gpu, didn't replace the xclamp, still going strong.

Reballing a xenon is a waste of time/money. Replacing the xclamp on any of them is a waste of time/money/effort.

 

[puss2puss]

@puss2puss replacing the xclamps with screws actually causes the board to flex MORE. That's why the xclamps have the plastic bit in the center to provide counter pressure in the center of the board. @DinohScene does an even better job of explaining it.

Replacing the xclamps with screws is a good way to kind of force it to work as you can torque the heatsink down so much that it literally pushes the chip closer to the board to force the BGA to connect. That on the other hand causes a ton of pressure on the center of the board.

I've reflowed a few xenons with a heatgun and replaced the xclamps with screws on some of them, but not all. And I think I've had more/quicker failures with the ones I've replaced the xclamps on than not. My best going one right now was one that I ended up cutting the heatsink and installing a 20mm fan over the cpu and gpu, didn't replace the xclamp, still going strong.

Reballing a xenon is a waste of time/money. Replacing the xclamp on any of them is a waste of time/money/effort.

Well then, i guess we can get good results even when we dont all do the same way .. the main tool that makes a difference of a good or bad result is the person using the tools
Because like i said, i always changed the xclamps with screws (and a square plate i put under that joins the four corners..i didnt specify it because i think it will bring more confusion to the thread..anyway) and they pratiquely never rrod again. A square olate is better then a xclamp since when getting hot, the xclamp can bend in two different direction., instead of pressuring all in the same spot..

As for the fan i tottally agree! and when you look at the slim model and the position where they now put there fans, it prooves that microsoft did learn to use this method to solve there main bad airflow issue

Personally when its a cpu overheating, i screw a tiny fan directly on the side of the cpu's heatsink pointing toward the exit fan. To power it i line the wires directly in the same as the main fan, that way it also use the sensor to run the same speed as the main one depending of the heat level.

The only thing i dont really agree Sickly, is about the reballing on xenon.. i honestly seen a huge difference of temps when reballing those xenon instead of only doing a reflow. Usually those old bastards have had a freaking hot past life, and a rebaing bring the chips for a better life they ever had

 

[CIAwesome526]

Well then, i guess we can get good results even when we dont all do the same way .. the main tool that makes a difference of a good or bad result is the person using the tools
Because like i said, i always changed the xclamps with screws (and a square plate i put under that joins the four corners..i didnt specify it because i think it will bring more confusion to the thread..anyway) and they pratiquely never rrod again. A square olate is better then a xclamp since when getting hot, the xclamp can bend in two different direction., instead of pressuring all in the same spot..

As for the fan i tottally agree! and when you look at the slim model and the position where they now put there fans, it prooves that microsoft did learn to use this method to solve there main bad airflow issue

Personally when its a cpu overheating, i screw a tiny fan directly on the side of the cpu's heatsink pointing toward the exit fan. To power it i line the wires directly in the same as the main fan, that way it also use the sensor to run the same speed as the main one depending of the heat level.

The only thing i dont really agree Sickly, is about the reballing on xenon.. i honestly seen a huge difference of temps when reballing those xenon instead of only doing a reflow. Usually those old bastards have had a freaking hot past life, and a rebaing bring the chips for a better life they ever had

I have tons of small pc fans, should I add it+

 

[KSP]

Worste excuse i.ve heard lo..honestly, if you think about it, wouldnt you find this funny if someone would tell you that? "poor guy need tin foil, run up his electric bill, buy washers..." what, d'you live in a cave or something?? Its less electricity then making some pillsbury cookies, and less then 10$ material since lots of people already have some tools at home.. lol.. run up his electric bill lol.. come on, domt be one of those peeps who defends there point to the point of saying nonsense, pretty sure you're more logic ten that



As i said before, every rrod i dixed with a true reballing never rrod again for minimum 5 months, and lots of them lasted for years, and my two personal fixed i keep for myselft never rrod again and its been for atleast 3-5 years now (not sure exactly, i dont count the years..).
You dont know what a reballing is and its okay, but atleast dont come and talk negativity just for some lack of experience!
Beleive me, there's no such thing as ''contacts that cannot be stabilized'' ..

I will try to explain briefly the information you're missing, i'm sharing with you my knowledge..(and please, no need to be close minded and defensive! Learning is better!):
A reballing is completly removing the chips, removing old solders underneath them, re-balling it (putting back some new tiny solder balls under the chips...) and then reaplying the chips. And the reason why the problem is fixable, is by avoiding them to overheat again and by avoiding the board to bend under the cpu and gpu to avoid solder balls to seperate again, wich is why the x-clamps are bad on those boards.
When the board bends, the small balls under the chips get slightly seperated, but not when you replace the x-clamps and when you avoid the excess heat to get back to the point it already been before.

So please, dont bring your negative experiences here on a thread of someone with a rrod who's seeking for help, if its just to say that its hopeless juste because you dont know anything about reballing.

I hope you understand and learn instead of defend your point..
Peace!

Problem is RROD happens when the board is already warped, so Reballing doesn't solve the problem, since the contacts will disconnect again. The only method of fixing an RROD is replacing the warped MOBO and placing the Chips on the new board. Regardless of what method you use to reball, and trust me I've reballed systems before. Using the same mobo will result in RROD relapse, since you never solved the original problem which is a warped board.

This guy is trying to fix an RROD without changing parts, its not possible. You can only fix it if you have spare mobos on hand to do a reball with. So really its pointless, like I said.

 

[MisterTea]

Problem is RROD happens when the board is already warped, so Reballing doesn't solve the problem, since the contacts will disconnect again. The only method of fixing an RROD is replacing the warped MOBO and placing the Chips on the new board. Regardless of what method you use to reball, and trust me I've reballed systems before. Using the same mobo will result in RROD relapse, since you never solved the original problem which is a warped board.

This guy is trying to fix an RROD without changing parts, its not possible. You can only fix it if you have spare mobos on hand to do a reball with. So really its pointless, like I said.

This is so wrong, you can fix the RROD with a real reflow and by fixing the chips cooling system.
Bolt mod etc ... Every experts have their own recipe but I assure you that every reflow I did on RROD xbox never came back .

EDIT : Also, I wanted to add that heatguns are made to scrap off old paint, not for fixing electronics FFS. (stop ruining fixable hardware !)

(About xenons and old mobos, it's indeed not a really good idea to spend a lot when you can buy a working one for a few bucks but stop doing this shit on expensive systems.)