1. t1op

    OP t1op GBAtemp Regular
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    I love how clean and detailed things look on the emulator over the blurry (CRT) or jaggy (HD) look of the real hardware.

    In terms of playability, is there any reason to pull out my PS2 and suffer the bad resolution graphics?

    Nearly all titles are "playable" in PCSX2 but are there any important ones that feel clunky compared to the real hardware?

    I've already parted with my NES, SNES, Genesis, Dreamcast, Wii and Gamecube because every game important to me ran better through emulation (*with bluetooth passthrough for Dolphin*). Is there a solid reason to hold on to my PS2 (not being caught up in the nostalgia of the true retro experience)?
     
    Last edited by t1op, Apr 6, 2020
  2. FR0ZN

    FR0ZN GBAtemp Maniac
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    If graphics are all you care about then no - if you want accuracy, then there is currently nothing better than the real hardware and that will probably be a fact for a lot more years to come.

    PCSX2 is great emulator, but it consists of so many flaws and gains its game compatability through a lot of "hacks".

    You have to choose between graphics / resolution or accuracy.
     
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  3. Xzi

    Xzi GBAtemp's Resident Plok Expert
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    I'd say the only reason to use an actual PS2 would be on an actual CRT. 2D games also aren't terrible on HD screens, but they still see some benefit from the sharpening and up-rezzing of emulators. The first time I played through Okami was at 1440p internal res on a PS2 emulator. Absolutely gorgeous.

    Reasons to keep retro hardware is a different topic though. Collecting is always fun, and it's also neat to be able to physically touch a part of gaming history, especially if it's also a part of your own history/past. Plus, a lot of functioning retro stuff can only go up in value as it gets older. It might one day sell for a significant return instead of the peanuts it currently goes for ($50 - $100).
     
    Last edited by Xzi, Apr 6, 2020
  4. mike087

    mike087 GBAtemp Regular
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    What is accuracy?
     
  5. Deleted User

    Deleted User Newbie

    https://emulation-general.fandom.com/wiki/Emulation_Accuracy
    Emulation Accuracy


    Accuracy is how accurate the emulator is to the original hardware. Accuracy is most often achieved by tighter syncing. More accuracy means less graphics and audio glitches, at the cost of additional CPU power required to run the game at fullspeed. There are hopes that less CPU power will be needed for more accuracy with the use of tighter programming.


    Low accuracy
    Low accuracy emulators will have a large amount of visual and audio glitches. They will typically use various speedhacks to skip over problems, as a result many games only run due to a variety of patches while others don't work at all. This can become very problematic when ROM hacks use these speedhacks to run by abusing the errors to create otherwise impossible behaviour. This means that the romhack can only be used in that one specific emulator. Such an issue has occured with zsnes.

    Medium accuracy
    Medium accuracy emulators will have fewer glitches, but will still have many problems. Most emulators fall into this category.

    High accuracy
    High accuracy emulators try to replicate the original system as closely as possible, and for that reason take more CPU power to do so. They will have fewer audio and visual glitches. High accuracy emulators may or may not be cycle accurate.

    100% Game compatibility
    Some high accuracy emulators can achieve 100% compatibility with commercially released games.

    Cycle accurate
    Cycle accurate emulation is basically trying to perfectly emulate timings right down to per-cycle accesses. So each individual component is emulated at exactly the right time, and in perfect sync etc, which takes a performance hit. How much performance is taken depends on the way cycle accuracy is implemented and the skill of the coder. The accuracy of these emulators are close to perfection, but at a steep CPU cost.

    Circuit accurate
    Circuit accurate emulators work by simulating each logic chip on the board individually. Such low level emulation requires a tremendous amount of power to run.

    Controversy
    There are basically two camps when it comes to the issue of accuracy. One side argues that as long as an emulator plays the majority of games at full speed on most computers and devices without too many obvious glitches, it does not matter how accurately it actually replicates the original hardware and its many quirks and functions. The faithfulness of the emulator to the console it is emulating comes second to its overall ability to play games. The other side argues that an emulator should ultimately strive to simulate the hardware as much as possible, as that is the only way to achieve as much compatibility as possible, as well as the only way to preserve the hardware. Thus, speed and scalability to most devices takes a backseat to accuracy to the real console, both for purposes of compatibility and preservation.

    Even within the second camp, however, there is some disagreement as to just how much accuracy is actually needed. On most platforms, after obtaining a certain amount of accuracy, going further still requires an exponential growth in system requirements, the results of which may not be noticeable to the vast majority of users. Cycle accuracy in particular has been hotly debated in regards to its usefulness, due to how such an extreme level of accuracy requires a lot of extra processing power for relatively few gains in compatibility. Proponents of very high accuracy point to games that require such a high degree of accuracy in order to be fully playable, as well as the importance of preserving the historical experience and the intent of the designers.
     
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  6. Cyan

    Cyan GBATemp's lurking knight
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    I don't like playing on computer. you always need to setup and find proper drivers and get latest updates and fix conflicts, update directX (if possible), or update your entire OS version! and then you notice controller is not recognized, then you have to set each buttons and calibrate, and then each game has to be tweaked in the settings for better frame rate, frame skip, and GPU settings etc. etc.
    not even counting blue screens, reboots, freezes and losing work I had (unsaved generally) in other opened applications. Yes, it already happened to me (it was a conflict with Unreal (first unreal game, not tournament)/BIOS version/mother card bus type/soundcard/specific config), I stopped trying to play on PC since then.
    I like to keep my computer less cluttered than it can be and not fill it with drivers and new hardware, and use it for work, internet and development only.

    Console just works, no nostalgia or retro reason here.
    power on, play, enjoy.

    edit: well, ok, not counting laser read issue here, because console is old or CD/DVD is dead.
    it's just easier in general.
     
    Last edited by Cyan, Apr 6, 2020
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  7. MockyLock

    MockyLock GBAtemp Fan
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    So true.
    I mean, so, so true.
    Real hardware is the way to go. The gentlemen way.
    Anything else is just faking.
     
  8. Zense

    Zense GBARunner2 config: Touch the touchscreen + press R
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    Personally, I had a different experience and turn of events when I years back, maybe in 2012, wanted to replay Jak & Daxter after not touching it since when it came out. What met me was a nice view of Daxter without eyes and back then that specific problem was unsolvable unless you used software interpreter. I remember trying for hours and looking up guides on how to get it to work, but in the end failing. That's when I decided to mod my PS2 and just not hassle with emulators like that anymore. And from that point I've been modding and buying retrosystems and current systems just to make sure I have a hasslefree way of playing the games I want.

    Which leads me to my next personal point, that I prefer real consoles over emulators for the plug-and-play ease of use of them. Basically with many emulators what you end up doing is having to prepare lots of settings to get what you want, sometimes for improvement (resolution, shaders, filters etc.) and sometimes for compatibility because the game needs specific settings to work properly. There's a reason Dolphin and PCSX2 have the biggest compatibility wikis around (and they compete with wikipedia on amount of content), and that's because there's lots of problems with their compatiblity and workarounds needed.

    So yeah, I love the idea of playing games at better resolutions and with nice shaders, and I still use emulators quite often, however, I also love having the real consoles around, mainly for just having to turn them on and instantly boot up whatever game I'm interested in. Of course, if you have a retroarch setup always connected to your TV then this argument isn't that relevant to you.

    Also I've started to suffer from noticing input lag so that might become more relevant down the years, but retroarch does have a great option to combat this and seemingly exceed beyond what real consoles can offer.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    Luckily, we have ODEs or stuff like the PSIO to combat the dying lasers! (Unfortunately they cost an arm and a leg...)
     
    Last edited by Zense, Apr 6, 2020
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  9. Reploid

    Reploid GBAtemp Advanced Maniac
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    Basically none, unless it's a one of very few very crappy games that PCSX2 do not support.
     
  10. MockyLock

    MockyLock GBAtemp Fan
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    For the PS2, setting an SD solution replacing the original disc drive is still affordable.
    Exemple :
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ps2/comments/7recxj/ultimate_playstation_2_sd_card_mod/

    I made my SD slot inside the venting slots of the HDD bay in the front of the PS2.
     
    Last edited by MockyLock, Apr 6, 2020
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  11. Zense

    Zense GBARunner2 config: Touch the touchscreen + press R
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    Yeah I read about that one. It's a cool mod. I did the HDD upgrade a long time ago with FMCB. Not so amazed by SD card speeds after having used an SD with usb adapter with my WIi U so I might opt for a SATA SSD in my PS2 sometime in the future.
     
  12. MockyLock

    MockyLock GBAtemp Fan
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    Beware, i already had issues with SATA HDD adapter. Not an offcial IDE modded to SATA, bu the chinese clones already SATA. Playing Ico, the game was randomly freezing. I never had such problems with real IDE nor SD mod version.
     
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  13. Meteor7

    Meteor7 Guess where this thumb goes.
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    PCSX2 (with settings optimized to reduce latency) introduces around 45-50ms of input lag as compared to a PS2 connected to a CRT. In frames (/60fps), it's about 2.5-3 frames. PCSX2 can makes games look gorgeous, don't get me wrong, but the added latency makes any action games that rely on reactions much more unpleasant, to the point of not being worth it. As someone who basically exclusively plays action games, this unfortunately makes PCSX2, for all its features, entirely useless to me. :\

    Which sucks, because it's basically the only way to play a number of old Tales games in HD, but I just can't bring myself to trade gameplay for graphics.
     
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  14. Swordmasterman

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    Playing on PS2 is better for people who have a weak computer and for those with a slightly better PC who don't like changing PCSX2 settings often. Game compatibility isn't an issue on PCSX2 because chances are you are not going to play the niche games it doesn't support.

    I personally prefer to play on PCSX2, above all other pros, because the option to save the game whenever I want is very important to me nowadays.
     
  15. t1op

    OP t1op GBAtemp Regular
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    Thank you everyone for your opinions. I know that opinions vary on how to play beloved older games.
    I think should play through the games I truly love on the emulator and decide if any issues would make me want to play on the original system. Luckily for me I prefer modern fighting games so any tiny bit of lag may not bother me in most games... but testing should make that apparent.

    It's off my original topic, but how is everyone's experience playing PS2 games on a PS3 slim, direct ports or injected? Specifically how does it compare to playing on a real PS2? About the same?
     
  16. Meteor7

    Meteor7 Guess where this thumb goes.
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    I haven't taken numbers on the PS3->PS3 injection method, but if I'm remembering right, it introduced more lag than even emulation. It does make games look a good bit better, as expected, but I also came against frequent compatibility issues with games.
     
  17. zfreeman

    zfreeman GBAtemp Maniac
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  18. 666nyan666

    666nyan666 Advanced Member
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    I found using PS2 isos on a modded PS3 to be more of a headache than just using my PS2. Sometimes a game would just freeze instead of booting up, the system's fan would run really loud half the time and it just felt sort of off. Probably some form of latency added by the system's upscaler. I had the same experience with a modded fat model, modded slim model and even playing Persona 3 FES on my OFW Slim felt off.

    Now a real PS2 on an HDTV using physical discs? No problems! Loading games off a hard drive using OPL? Pretty good, only one or two games started to stutter but that could have just been a bad disc image being used. The image quality is great if you're using HDretrovision's component cables. And let's not forget the analog face buttons on the PS2 controller!
     
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  19. Miles

    Miles GBAtemp Fan
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    PCSX2 has all sorts of small graphical glitches, latency issues, audio issues, and other issues that you simply don't get with real hardware. The only reason to use PCSX2 over a PS2 is better graphics and the convenience of not having to setup a PS2 on modern TVs. If you have a real PS2 it's worth soft modding it, especially if you have an old TV to play it on.
     
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  20. Tigran

    Tigran GBAtemp Advanced Maniac
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    The only game I really have problems with on PSCX2 is Transformers (not Transformers the movie)... and they -really- need to fix that. That game deserves to be run in 4k.
     
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