Nobody who complains about NFL players taking a knee during the anthem stands up for it at home

[Joeseph Mother]

Your premise is highly flawed. I don't stand up if the national anthem is played on TV, just like I don't say hello to a photograph of my mother when I walk by it, and I don't talk to myself in the mirror-it's a visualization of something, not the actual event. If I'm at the event, I'm on my feet.

The professional athletes kneeling and those defending it are unpatriotic. If it started with inner city high school football players, it would be one thing, because they don't have a voice and a broad stance to make a statement about the world they are living in. Pro athletes are on television constantly, have interviews for newspapers and other media outlets, and have the cash to buy advertising to support any cause they choose. They could also wear clothing or hold up signs with their message on it. They would be fined, but isn't that a small price to pay to spread your message across to millions of people, if it is really about the message?

The sad fact is, there is very little real patriotism anymore. If you are proud of your country, you are still proud of it despite its flaws, and would have the pride to stand for the anthem. If you are not willing to stand for the anthem of this country, you are disrespecting all of those who for for the creation of this country, and those who shaped it and made it what it is today.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

Your premise is highly flawed. I don't stand up if the national anthem is played on TV, just like I don't say hello to a photograph of my mother when I walk by it, and I don't talk to myself in the mirror-it's a visualization of something, not the actual event. If I'm at the event, I'm on my feet.

The professional athletes kneeling and those defending it are unpatriotic. If it started with inner city high school football players, it would be one thing, because they don't have a voice and a broad stance to make a statement about the world they are living in. Pro athletes are on television constantly, have interviews for newspapers and other media outlets, and have the cash to buy advertising to support any cause they choose. They could also wear clothing or hold up signs with their message on it. They would be fined, but isn't that a small price to pay to spread your message across to millions of people, if it is really about the message?

The sad fact is, there is very little real patriotism anymore. If you are proud of your country, you are still proud of it despite its flaws, and would have the pride to stand for the anthem. If you are not willing to stand for the anthem of this country, you are disrespecting all of those who for for the creation of this country, and those who shaped it and made it what it is today.

First of all, unconditional patriotism is no longer patriotism, it's nationalism. I would not be proud of saying that you (used nebulously, not "you") believe that the entire population should be forced to stand in front of imagery representing your nation and salute it for that reason, specifically

But secondly... I see no reason why this ISN'T patriotic, anyway. Isn't a wish to improve your country, as opposed to either leaving or ignoring the problem, one of the more patriotic things someone could do with their life?

 

[PuNKeMoN]

Your premise is highly flawed. I don't stand up if the national anthem is played on TV, just like I don't say hello to a photograph of my mother when I walk by it, and I don't talk to myself in the mirror-it's a visualization of something, not the actual event. If I'm at the event, I'm on my feet.

No actually, the "visualisation" is happening live at the very moment people in their homes are observing it. So it is the actual event.

The professional athletes kneeling and those defending it are unpatriotic. If it started with inner city high school football players, it would be one thing, because they don't have a voice and a broad stance to make a statement about the world they are living in. Pro athletes are on television constantly, have interviews for newspapers and other media outlets, and have the cash to buy advertising to support any cause they choose. They could also wear clothing or hold up signs with their message on it. They would be fined, but isn't that a small price to pay to spread your message across to millions of people, if it is really about the message?

The USA was founded in the spirit of defiance, the American Revolution is proof enough of the concept. The whole country is based on protest, so much so that protesting is a right. The players are patriotic.

The sad fact is, there is very little real patriotism anymore. If you are proud of your country, you are still proud of it despite its flaws, and would have the pride to stand for the anthem. If you are not willing to stand for the anthem of this country, you are disrespecting all of those who for for the creation of this country, and those who shaped it and made it what it is today.

Men who have defended the country have outright praised the players for their patriotism.

 

[Joeseph Mother]

First of all, unconditional patriotism is no longer patriotism, it's nationalism. I would not be proud of saying that you (used nebulously, not "you") believe that the entire population should be forced to stand in front of imagery representing your nation and salute it for that reason, specifically

I never said anybody should be forced to do anything, the professional athletes making millions of dollars should want to. They should be grateful for the opportunities afforded them because they are in this country.

But secondly... I see no reason why this ISN'T patriotic, anyway. Isn't a wish to improve your country, as opposed to either leaving or ignoring the problem, one of the more patriotic things someone could do with their life?

Improving the country is a wonderful and patriotic goal, but again, we're talking about people who have nearly unlimited resources and can do this in ways that are not offensive and disrespectful.

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No actually, the "visualisation" is happening live at the very moment people in their homes are observing it. So it is the actual event.

If you're home alone on New Year's Eve, and watch it on TV, do you count down out loud, and join in on toasts people make on TV?

The USA was founded in the spirit of defiance, the American Revolution is proof enough of the concept. The whole country is based on protest, so much so that protesting is a right. The players are patriotic.


Men who have defended the country have outright praised the players for their patriotism.

The American Revolution was also a government upheaval, and as unpatriotic as could be to the British. I'm not saying protesting is bad, I'm against the form of protest because its being done by people who have much better ways of doing it.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

I never said anybody should be forced to do anything, the professional athletes making millions of dollars should want to. They should be grateful for the opportunities afforded them because they are in this country.

Just because someone is comfortable does not mean they can't use their influence to help people who aren't. To say otherwise is shortsighted and rather selfish

Improving the country is a wonderful and patriotic goal, but again, we're talking about people who have nearly unlimited resources and can do this in ways that are not offensive and disrespectful.

Considering it's gotten a discussion started, I guess I can't think of any better method of using their influence as a way of protesting. Plus... How exactly is it disrespectful?...

If you're home alone on New Year's Eve, and watch it on TV, do you count down out loud, and join in on toasts people make on TV?

Home alone, no, but that's maybe the worst example you could have used. They're both comparable because watching football is typically a social experience, much like celebrating New Year's, and I'd venture to say that most people join in the countdown

The American Revolution was also a government upheaval, and as unpatriotic as could be to the British. I'm not saying protesting is bad, I'm against the form of protest because its being done by people who have much better ways of doing it.

What is your idea of a better protest that would generate as much interest as this one, then, if I may ask?...

 

[PuNKeMoN]

Improving the country is a wonderful and patriotic goal, but again, we're talking about people who have nearly unlimited resources and can do this in ways that are not offensive and disrespectful.

The American Revolution was also a government upheaval, and as unpatriotic as could be to the British. I'm not saying protesting is bad, I'm against the form of protest because its being done by people who have much better ways of doing it.

The protest is working whether you agree with it or not. One must truly be overly sensitive if some guys kneeling rather than standing for a symbol on a piece of cloth is offensive to them. Controversy leads to outrage. Outrage leads to change.
The beauty of the US flag, or any flag for that matter, is that because it is a symbol it holds a different meaning to each individual who observes it.
I understand your point that the many who suffered for it deserve respect. Kneeling is, get this... A form of respect. Ever been to a Catholic church? They have these pads built in to the back of the benches so that they can easliy kneel when people pray to their God, you know, because it is a respectful and humble action.

This by far is the best protest I've seen in the history of protests. It is better than those who riot and it is better than those who block public streets.

If you're home alone on New Year's Eve, and watch it on TV, do you count down out loud, and join in on toasts people make on TV?

I wouldn't be home alone for NYE but even if I were. You fucking bet I would count down and toast. Would I look like a weirdo? Who would be there to prove it? Bad scenario. Try another one.

 

[Jonna]

If you're home alone on New Year's Eve, and watch it on TV, do you count down out loud, and join in on toasts people make on TV?

Yep. Had to do this recently, actually.