Nobody who complains about NFL players taking a knee during the anthem stands up for it at home

invaderyoyo

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It looks like kneeling during the anthem has worked out pretty well. They pissed off the people they meant to piss off and they drew a bunch of attention.

Anyway, I don't see a problem. They're not hurting anyone. I can't prove it, but I have an aching suspicion that many of the ones pissed off by the kneeling are the same people who call others "snowflakes".
 
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Xzi

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It looks like kneeling during the anthem has worked out pretty well. They pissed off the people they meant to piss off and they drew a bunch of attention.

Anyway, I don't see a problem. They're not hurting anyone. I can't prove it, but I have an aching suspicion that the many of the ones pissed off by the kneeling are the same people who call others "snowflakes".
Indeed. The right-wing is blind to their own hypocrisy.

A: "Fuck your feelings."
B: "ROFL Samantha Bee called Ivanka a feckless cunt."
A: "SHE CAN'T SAY THAT, IT HURTS MY FEELINGS!"
 

SG854

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you guys act like 'whites' cops eat donuts all day and shoot blacks on site, disregarding that they put their life on the line everyday. not to mention all the crime scenes and disputes and emergencies they have to go through.

in the nfl they kneel for who knows what but wont say something when their QB is a serial rapist or their guy punched out a chick... its why the nfl is dead because very few really care. dont mix politics outside of politics
Well 80% of police officers are either obese or overweight, so they do fit the donut eating stereo type.
 

invaderyoyo

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Indeed. The right-wing is blind to their own hypocrisy.

A: "Fuck your feelings."
B: "ROFL Samantha Bee called Ivanka a feckless cunt."
A: "SHE CAN'T SAY THAT, IT HURTS MY FEELINGS!"
Yeah, in general I feel like the farther right you go, the more the policies are based on feelings instead of actual common sense or reason. Just look at where they stand with abortions or gay marriage.

Tbh though, I don't think that stuff actually matters to most the rightwing politicians. It's a front to secure easy votes. They just wanna enact more "trickle down economics" policies.
 

Tigran

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I just want to note that Trump actually disrespect the flag where the players have done nothing of the sort.

Code of Conduct for the flag.

§176. Respect for flag
No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.
  • (a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.
  • (b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.
  • (c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.
  • (d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.
  • (e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.
  • (f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.
  • (g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.
  • (h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.
  • (i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.
  • (j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.
  • (k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.
Source: http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html#172

While Trump has actually BROKEN THE LAW with this, and the Calling of Samantha Bee's firing:

(a) Whoever, being a covered government person, with the intent to influence, solely on the basis of partisan political affiliation, an employment decision or employment practice of any private entity—
(1) takes or withholds, or offers or threatens to take or withhold, an official act, or
(2) influences, or offers or threatens to influence, the official act of another,
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than 15 years, or both, and may be disqualified from holding any office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States.
(b) In this section, the term “covered government person” means—
(1) a Senator or Representative in, or a Delegate or Resident Commissioner to, the Congress;
(2) an employee of either House of Congress; or
(3) the President, Vice President, an employee of the United StatesPostal Service or the Postal Regulatory Commission, or any other executive branch employee (as such term is defined under section 2105 of title 5, United States Code).

Source: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/227
 

Delerious

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Perhaps off-topic, I find it hilarious how everyone here just immediately categorizes each other as either left or right-wing based on their opinions on this matter. And I think it's stupid that people automatically lump someone as a Trump supporter when they give a moderate to conservative opinion.

As for my views on the matter, I do believe that players do have the right to express their opinion, but I'm not sure if kneeling before the flag is a positive way to go about it.

And as for the police brutality thing, yes, police brutality does exist, and yes, we need to hold those involved accountable. However, I also believe that it is blown out of proportion at times, and I certainly don't believe it exists on as large of scale as the media wants you to believe. After all, that's what big media likes to do, is blow things out of proportion to get people all riled up and following a side like sheep. I also think it's ridiculous that people are suddenly developing this view that all police are scumbags. Honestly, if you want to get into the whole matter of crime against X group of people, then look at the statistics from the U.S. Department of Justice, which I'll leave linked below, and look at how much crime has actually decreased in recent years as a whole, especially with black-on-white and white-on-black crime. People want to talk about this whole systemic racism thing like white people everywhere are trying to put black people down. When really, we are still in a transitional period. When you think about the southern segregation laws and what they brought, well, a good chunk of the black population at that time still lived in the south. And hell, there's still a good chunk of the black population in Mississippi, Louisiana and especially Georgia. With segregation laws, a lot of black people didn't have a whole lot of access to education, and it wasn't until MLK and President Kennedy that people started addressing those issues. Now you think about the generational gap between then and now, with 20-25 years being a generation, it's not big at all. In fact, 50 years is pretty recent. Considering how few black people had a good education back then, and looking at the difference in wealth and social status during that time, do you really think that kind of change is going to happen overnight? Of course not. And how likely are one's children to pursue an education when the parents aren't well-educated? It's probably not as likely as one with educated parents, and only recently do you actually have more people in the black community going into college. Hell, look at the number of black men attending college vs black men in prison from 2003 to 2009 (link below). The number in prison during that time remained mostly stagnant, whereas there was a pretty good increase of black men enrolling in college.

Is this to say that the system isn't entirely racist? No. There are probably some areas, especially in southern states, where things ought to change. But considering where we're at right now, I don't think that systemic racism exists on the scale that leftists think it does, and black people clearly aren't being held back on such a grand scale these days. If there is one good thing that does come from the left, it's that many of them are trying to encourage more people in the black community to get a good education. But I think the continuous push of this victim mentality isn't going to help people rise up. Instead, it only encourages them to expect something from society. And for those that are legitimately victims, they need to be encouraged to rise out of their position. Victim cards are never good for anyone.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...te-on-white-crime_us_59e8a84fe4b0d0e4fe6d953b
https://www.amren.com/news/2013/03/more-black-men-in-college-than-in-prison/
 
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Tigran

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As for my views on the matter, I do believe that players do have the right to express their opinion, but I'm not sure if kneeling before the flag is a positive way to go about it.

Again.. I want to point out that Kneeling is not disrespecting the flag.. But most "MERICANS!" disrespect it in every way imaginable on the 4th of July, and again, our IoC has disrespected it numerous times.
 

Delerious

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Again.. I want to point out that Kneeling is not disrespecting the flag.. But most "MERICANS!" disrespect it in every way imaginable on the 4th of July, and again, our IoC has disrespected it numerous times.

Did I say anything about it being disrespectful? No. I merely said it may not be the most positive way to go about it. Stop trying to put words in people's mouths.
 

Tigran

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Did I say anything about it being disrespectful? No. I merely said it may not be the most positive way to go about it. Stop trying to put words in people's mouths.

Well the only way for a Protest to work.. It must annoy others. So what way -would- you suggest?
 

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Well the only way for a Protest to work.. It must annoy others. So what way -would- you suggest?

Any sort of pre-game ritual that is visible to the crowd, but doesn't spark up controversy. For me, it's not a matter of respecting or disrespecting the flag. I'm not super patriotic myself, but when you do something that sparks up controversy, you start to lose a lot of loyalty from your fanbase, and the NFL and its teams rely on the fanbase. I suppose you could make the argument that greater controversy brings greater attention to the matter, but in this case, all it has done is brought more attention to the ones committing the controversial action, not so much the subject they are trying to protest.

In the end, it probably doesn't matter though. Americans are often times dull enough to forget this kind of shit and go back to watching their favorite teams pummel one another for status.
 
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Tigran

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Any sort of pre-game ritual that is visible to the crowd, but doesn't spark up controversy. For me, it's not a matter of respecting or disrespecting the flag. I'm not super patriotic myself, but when you do something that sparks up controversy, you start to lose a lot of loyalty from your fanbase, and the NFL and its teams rely on the fanbase. I suppose you could make the argument that greater controversy brings greater attention to the matter, but in this case, all it has done is brought more attention to the ones committing the controversial action, not so much the subject they are trying to protest.

In the end, it probably doesn't matter though. Americans are often times dull enough to forget this kind of shit and go back to watching their favorite teams pummel one another for status.


Then again you miss the point of a protest. It -has- to be visible and either annoying or to some to be insulting for it to be of any use. And honestly... What do the players care of a Team Owner pays a fine? Unless there is something specific about it in their contract, *Which may or may not* any firings could be seen as wrongful termination.
 

TotalInsanity4

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Any sort of pre-game ritual that is visible to the crowd, but doesn't spark up controversy.
The idea of a Protest IS to spark up controversy; if you're protesting, there's clearly something you view as an issue that someone else is doing, and that other entity is going to keep doing it unless a conversation is started
 
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Delerious

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Then again you miss the point of a protest. It -has- to be visible and either annoying or to some to be insulting for it to be of any use. And honestly... What do the players care of a Team Owner pays a fine? Unless there is something specific about it in their contract, *Which may or may not* any firings could be seen as wrongful termination.

The idea of a Protest IS to spark up controversy; if you're protesting, there's clearly something you view as an issue that someone else is doing, and that other entity is going to keep doing it unless a conversation is started

Hm, you do make a fair point. :unsure:
 
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SG854

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U.S. Census Bureau count's people from the Middle East as White. So it puts them in the oppressor category.
People from Saudi Arabia and Iran better check their White Privilege. All Muslims from the Middle East are benefiting from systemic oppression.
 

TotalInsanity4

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U.S. Census Bureau count's people from the Middle East as White. So it puts them in the oppressor category.
People from Saudi Arabia and Iran better check their White Privilege. All Muslims from the Middle East are benefiting from systemic oppression.
I really wish that I had time to unpack all the stupid that you managed to cram into 41 words
 
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SG854

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TotalInsanity4

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I gathered that it was a joke, but like

Even if you categorized middle-easterns as "white" (rather than brown, or better yet, Middle-eastern), that'd be like saying since Gypsies/Roma people live in France, they can't be an oppressed class. When speaking of Europe and Eastern European countries, "white" doesn't hold nearly the same cultural description it does in the US; both skin shade and mannerisms vary by location, and unfortunately nationalism is just as alive there as it is here

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Damn how'd you know I typed exactly 41 words?
Word counter
 

SG854

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I gathered that it was a joke, but like

Even if you categorized middle-easterns as "white" (rather than brown, or better yet, Middle-eastern), that'd be like saying since Gypsies/Roma people live in France, they can't be an oppressed class. When speaking of Europe and Eastern European countries, "white" doesn't hold nearly the same cultural description it does in the US; both skin shade and mannerisms vary by location, and unfortunately nationalism is just as alive there as it is here

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


Word counter
Yes Yes I know. No need to explain the nuances.
And your description is exactly why you can't blame White People in America. Because which White people are you talking about? There are so many lumped into the White category. Wouldn't including Middle Eastern people in the same category as White mess with statistics a bit. So are Bureau statistics then not as trust worthy when arguing race?

There are statistics where White People are the majority that are under the poverty line.
So how do you differentiate People from Middle East and White people not from Middle Eastern areas when they are all lumped together in statistics?
Police data includes Middle Eastern people in the White Category in their crime statistics. And since data doesn't include Middle Easterners as a separate category you don't know the extent of what they experience in America.
 
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