GBAtemp Exclusive Nintendo's Paid Online: a yearly checkup/opinion piece

Discussion in 'GBAtemp & Scene News' started by Meteor7, Sep 14, 2019.

  1. Sonic Angel Knight

    Sonic Angel Knight GBAtemp Legend

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    May 27, 2016
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    New York
    Except the wii u which has no means of user or server backup at all, not to mention some wii or even gamecube games can't even copy data to backup. :ninja:

    Still I agree with this topic that for what it's worth, the online multiplayer should have improved a long time ago and paying for it now is even worse because is required to play which wasn't the case before. So though it's important to most players to play online, paying for $20 to have the same exact poor performing games we had in 2006 on wii games (Don't remind me of super smash bros brawl) is more like paying $20 for nes and snes games I could have paid $5 for on wii u virtual console. It would be more simplified if either they never made this decision or left playing online free and the special offers separate. (it would really bring down the amount of subscribers, but in all fairness, nothing has changed when playing online since 15 years ago that makes it worth paying for)

    Though they are considered special offers, the kinds I was hoping for was something similar to playstation plus such as free games, improved discounts, perhaps some early access, exclusive testing etc. But now that I think about that, playstation plus does tend to push the some personally unfavorable games for free and constant discounts on said unfavorable games as well. Is my personal opinion, but I understand that there is MANYYYYYY games on digit stores. Still that doesn't excuse many of those same exact games getting the same exact discount about every month or the ones I look for, not at all or very much a joke. :blink:

    Not trying to defend Nintendo by saying this but thanks to the ease of nes and snes on switch, I did get to try some games I personally never would have. I always like to praise compilations. Regardless of selection of games people are aware of in some of the, there is always something that another may not know and be curious to try. I never would have bought Wario's woods, and since I was able to try it, I find it fun. Is not a compliment though, is just something I wanted to share. Still, I hope that things improve because I really feel like it isn't paying for, and if I had friends to play with at home, I probably wouldn't have to begin with. :ph34r:
     
  2. Something whatever

    Something whatever Gazer of the East

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    Sep 1, 2015
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    Pretty sure people are going to start paying for it when Pokemon ButterKnife and Pot lid comes out, just a hunch anyway...Besides if you are lucky enough to have a hackable switch, you can back up your own saves for ALL of your games.
     
    Last edited by Something whatever, Sep 18, 2019
  3. Logan97

    Logan97 G.B.A.T.e.m.p T.e.m.p.l.a.r K.n.i.g.h.t

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    Dec 24, 2013
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    Where all things matter
    I haven't payed for switch online and probably never will, I'm lucky to have Amazon Prime to get those free 3 months, but anyhow, I've been said that the Switch was an early access console from the beginning. and the signs are still showing. I understand the motive of Nintendo, they took a step backwards to go foward and that's regarding to the change in hardware, but the support for the online service and OS is equivalent to third parties supporting the the PS Vita.... Even when you think you fully dissect the problem with Nintendo and you try to understand, it's still very mind boggling... (Sigh) at least Capcom did help with the ram part, I don't what would've happen to the future of Nintendo if the switch had 2gb of ram.
     
    Last edited by Logan97, Sep 18, 2019
  4. MasterJ360

    MasterJ360 GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    Conclusion: It's 2019 and I still haven't paid a dime towards Nintendo's online service even with my non hacked Switch.
     
  5. Phenj

    Phenj GBAtemp Fan

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    May 22, 2018
    Italy
    People like you are the curse of the whole gaming community.
     
  6. Ericthegreat

    Ericthegreat Not New Member

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    Nov 8, 2008
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    Vana'diel
    I can almost guarantee that this isn't true, and that there is a huge team of highly paid engineers that work on the service, it just seems that this is how Nintendo wants it.

    Are there lag issues on the jp servers?
     
  7. Jiehfeng

    Jiehfeng Netti Netti

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    Aug 15, 2012
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    Noticing, aloof from it all
    Not to mention, Animal Crossing of all games, will not have cloud saves, and the game only lets you have one save across all your profiles... -___-
     
    3dswitch likes this.
  8. HarvHouHacker

    HarvHouHacker GBAtemp's "Official" Wii Rock Band Hacker

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    Mar 24, 2019
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    Right here on good ol' planet Earth!
    I think this article should be shared. To Nintendo employees. :evil:

    The majority of this article exactly expresses how I feel about the Online Service. While I had no idea that there was so much lag, I did keep pointing out to everyone that you are paying for WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY FREE. Also, the article has a point on NES and SNES titles - you don't own them; you just subscribe to play them. Here's what I think:

    1. Online Play - It should always be free. It was before, it should be again. It's stupid as hell that they are doing this. They should also try to do something about the lag issues, WITHOUT pointing fingers at the consumer.
    2. NES and SNES Games - I had stated before that this could stay part of the subscription. Actually, what I'd prefer is that these games are sold ridiculously cheap as Virtual Console titles for the Nintendo Switch, say $1 a piece. They'd make more money that way, actually.
    3. Cloud Storage - Can be a subscription thing or not; it's not a necessary feature since the Switch can take microSD cards up to 2 TB.
    4. Voice Chat/App Usage - A lot of people like to converse with others while they play. This should be free alongside Online Play.
    5. Promotional Offers - Probably should be included in My Nintendo, or another version of Club Nintendo.

    But how much will Nintendo actually respond to feedback? I never hear them say "Due to complaints..." or "People have said..." No, they seem to only focus on the information they want to collect, such as statistical information - number of plays, online activity, etc. They should be listening to what we're saying! So, spread the word that NINTENDO ONLINE SUCKS!!!
     
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  9. Pipistrele

    Pipistrele GBAtemp Regular

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    Jan 21, 2019
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    Maybe that's just Stockholm syndrome kicking in, but in my head, I basically consider NSO a glorified Tetris 99 subscription because I love that lil' game more than 80% of paid titles I've played on the thing =)
     
  10. arcanine

    arcanine Advanced Member

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    May 8, 2017
    So don't pay for it. What's the point of complaining about something that you don't want to pay for when you have the option of not paying?
     
  11. piratesephiroth

    piratesephiroth I wish I could read

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    Sep 5, 2013
    Brazil
    Exactly.
    I'd understand if they charged for the cloud saving and the retro titles but for pretty much all games except Splatoon, all their servers provide is matchmaking so they consume minimal resources.
    The multiplayer gameplay is always peer-to-peer so it's just a shameless paywall.
     
  12. Meteor7
    OP

    Meteor7 Guess where this thumb goes.

    pip Contributor
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    Jun 9, 2014
    United States
    a fit of spasms and accidental black magic
    What Japanese servers? There aren't any servers at all.
    Also, yes, everybody gets the lag burrito that is Nintendo online, even the Japanese.
    A hypothetical product isn't beyond criticism just because you could not pay for it. Should every negative game review be taken down on that logic, since you don't technically have to play any of them? And again, this isn't even a "product" or a "service", as nothing is being provided by Nintendo, only by your ISP. The point of complaining is to bring attention to exploitative systems like this in order to hopefully affect a change, but also just to highlight it as the highway robbery that it is.
     
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  13. Ericthegreat

    Ericthegreat Not New Member

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    I mean it's not highway robbery, it's unsatisfactory service. You get the nes/snes games, even though you can play them on an emulator it still counts.
     
  14. Meteor7
    OP

    Meteor7 Guess where this thumb goes.

    pip Contributor
    12
    Jun 9, 2014
    United States
    a fit of spasms and accidental black magic
    The NES/SNES games do very much count as a service, it's true, and so do the vouchers, in their own weird way. There's nothing inherently wrong with Nintendo selling subscription-based access to legacy titles, even if the emulation is sub-par compared to freeware; when I call the Online Service highway robbery, I'm more speaking directly to the "pay to play P2P" aspect specifically.
     
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  15. donaldgx

    donaldgx GBAtemp Regular

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    My stance on online sub is:
    'Im not willing to spend an extra dime for internet access outside my payments to my isp'
    Which is why pc master race is getting all my business now
     
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  16. bodefuceta

    bodefuceta GBAtemp Fan

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    Apr 3, 2018
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    That's what happens to any subscription service that isn't leveraged to hell and back, bleeding money as an attempt to keep customers hostage like Netflix. It's generally worser to the user experience in the first few years, but it's unlikely to see 3x price hikes and may gradually get better. I never paid for any kind of online subscription, they don't respect the users freedom, but I'd be much more inclined to buy Nintendo online than the competitors that charge 3x more and use stupid freebies as excuse.
     
  17. Kadji

    Kadji GBAtemp Regular

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    Nov 16, 2006
    Germany
    Germany, NRW
    I have had enough about this topic.
    To all the people bitching about Online beeing just p2p, saying that Nintendo is basically ripping money from us without any return of investment: That is complete and utter bulls*it.

    At the very least the Friend List requires some sort of Server that the Switch communicates with.
    Now we are also getting the ability to invite freinds into games, which, again, requires at least some kind of friend list Server.

    But ok, let us just concentrate on the games.
    If what you guys are saying is true, then explain to me:
    How does my Switch find opponents to play with if there is no Server involved? (I know the answer, but do you?)
    Just because the actual gameplay is working with a P2P connection (which is, actually, totaly fine if everybody has a good connection OR you are playing 1 vs 1) does NOT mean that Nintendo has 0 Servers for their games - they at least need some servers for the player matching, be it with a rating System (Mario Tennis) or with a "just throw everyone together" approach (Super Kirby Clash).

    I know, this is the internet where everybody can write down his opinion and post it as a "hard fact" - and I am pissed about this.
    If you don't know what you are talking about, if you are just guessing into the blue, if you have absolutely no idea how online communication in a closed eco system works: Just shut the f*ck up, or at least don't post your thoughts like they are hard, prooven facts.

    I won't call any names because namecalling sucks, too.

    Regarding the price: We just got over 20 SNES games with no additional cost. And NSO costs less than xbox live / ps+, which ALSO require you to pay to play online.
    But sure, since it is Nintendo, and bashing Nintendo about *everything* regarding online play seems to be fine and accepted, everybody is just repeating stuff they have heard from somewhere.

    And no, I am not a Fanboy - there *are* problems with NSO:
    - Voicechat over the Smartphone-App is half-assed and is almost never used
    - Having no dedicated LAN-Port in addition with 4 player P2P online gaming is a stupid move that Nintendo is hopefully regretting now
    - No ways to communicate with friends outside of games (and even there communication is very limited, if possible at all)
    - Have better matchmaking that takes the location of the players more into account, trying not only to match you with equaly skilled players but also with players that live "close" to you, reducing the lag that occures in high latency P2P connections

    And for the final time: P2P in itself is not bad - in fact it is the best option if you have a 1 vs 1 situation where both clients (Switch A and Switch B) have to be synchronized. This is the case with SMM2 for example. P2P is getting worse the more connections you have and the higher the latency between you and you opponent(s) is.

    A Server/Client infastructure brings it own set of problems: Laggy opponents teleporting all over the place, rubberbanding, and in theory a higher latency against your opponent, even in a 1 vs 1 situation under optimal internet conditions (wired connection, 0% packageloss, good routing that does not need 50 hops before reaching your opponent).
     
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  18. JakobAir

    JakobAir Advanced Member

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    Mar 17, 2017
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    I have a fiber optic connection that I had installed about a year ago. I was playing SSBU with my wife last night and it was pretty laggy.
     
  19. geodeath

    geodeath GBAtemp Regular

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    Oct 26, 2006
    London
    What is being consumed though? The NES/SNES games are 'freebies' for being loyal. You are paying for 'an online service' when there is no service at all, the whole data goes between you and your fellow players. So what are you paying for then? They locked the save files behind a paywall. This is not a 'service'. It is the very concept of bad monetisation, EA style. Hiding things that should be unlocked for free, to then ask for money to unlock. As others say, until Nintendo actually pitches in with a 'proper' server-backed service and does not lock usual and expected functionality behind a paywall, the 'service' is going to look like a joke.

    To give you an example, i do not personally care about online gaming and even if i did, Nintendo's games would probably be at the middle if not the bottom of the list of games i would want to play in a multiplayer setting. I do have all other consoles too. Still no online on all of them. Can still backup my saves though. Super easily too.

    Nintendo has become the worst of the worst in monetising their stuff. They were always more honest with their pricing, given that they never subsidised their user base (and i like that) but now they went to the extreme opposite, where they just milk everything they can.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    How and where exactly are they putting money towards, if there is no server between online play? If you mean the coders that built the libraries that the games use as part of the SDK then well, obviously, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the 'service' in question and it does not need a recurring 'fee' to upkeep, just somebody with a salary for an X amount of time to write once.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    This is an opinion piece. Obviously, whoever thinks Nintendo's offering is not worth their money, won't pay for it.
     
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  20. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    Sep 13, 2009
    Poland
    Gaming Grotto
    The idea that charging for online play is some kind of rip-off is antiquated and hails back to the days of exclusively peer-to-peer multiplayer, sometimes backed with small Master servers that did little beyond listing the active sessions - that kind of multiplayer was effectively free, or close to free to implement, so charging for it wouldn't make a lick of sense. Nowadays multiplayer entails running enormous data centers filled from the basement to the roof with high-end servers that deal with a lot of the computing on their end, and that's not free - it has costs associated with running the system. The fact that PC games have gotten away with free online for this long is an anomaly and not the status quo - lots of PC games operate on a subscription model, particularly in the MMO sphere which has similar requirements. Other games subsidise this extra cost with vanity items or lootboxes. I suspect that as the implementation of cloud computing progresses there will be a tipping point for "free online", and we're not far away from that time. Industry giants like Valve can offset their losses with their storefronts, but the same cannot be said about smaller scale solutions.
     
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