Nintendo takes down Yuzu-based emulators including Suyu, Sudachi, Torzu, Uzuy and Nuzu

dmca.png

The never-ending battle between the litigious plumber and the emulation Hydra continues day by day, and these past days, Nintendo took action against more emulators forked or based on the original Yuzu emulator, which was taken down by Nintendo they sued the company behind the emulator and settled for 2.4 million back in February of this year.

Continuing with their actions, Nintendo has gone after more Yuzu-based emulators that have appeared in recent months, with some being those growing in popularity like Sudachi and Suyu, and others not being as popular but still being caught in the crossfire, like Nuzu, Uzuy and Torzu. While all of their respective repositories are currently offline, some appear to have been entirely deleted, and others do have the DMCA page appear on them while accessing the repository, which could mean that, upon receiving the DMCA notice, some of the developers for those repositories opted to entirely delete the repos themselves, and the others haven't either taken action or weren't able to.

Sudachi is one interesting case in this regard, as the developers behind it have claimed that a counter-action would be taken against the DMCA notice, and additionally, it was also mentioned that they intend on rewriting the code base for the emulator in order to work around the DMCA sensitive parts.



It is still unknown if Sudachi has indeed submitted a counter-claim against the DMCA notice yet, and what might come out of it.
In the meanwhile, Sudachi's website is still operational, as well as a repository mirror as an Onion link.

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Lumpofcoal

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Just needs a host site that doesn't give a shit about DMCA requests. That law is far too easy to abuse, even people dumping all their own stuff legally aren't safe from it.

I think that's what he should do as well but it seems like he intends to go the legal route since he indicated that he wanted to file a counter-claim. That's why I'm wondering how he intends to fight such a legal battle.
 
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chrisrlink

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Just needs a host site that doesn't give a shit about DMCA requests. That law is far too easy to abuse, even people dumping all their own stuff legally aren't safe from it.
um Russia anyone? nintendo shot themselves (and other companies too) when they cut ties with them I get the morality of it but they shoulda expected putin to roll back anti piracy laws as a result
 

Xzi

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um Russia anyone? nintendo shot themselves (and other companies too) when they cut ties with them I get the morality of it but they shoulda expected putin to roll back anti piracy laws as a result
China would be the better option as of right now, at least they haven't invaded Taiwan quite yet. Let's hope they reconsider and never do.
 

DJPlace

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this shit is really starting to piss me off. just don't pirate games that come with emulators it that fucking simple. i'm shocked Ryujinx did not get hit yet... it's the only good switch emulaotr left.
 

DiscostewSM

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Just a word of caution not to get hopes up about DLSS being much of a factor with the Switch 2.

DLSS requires a substantial amount of CPU grunt to pull off, independent of the GPU hardware. An ARM-based CPU is also going to have considerably less performance than even a laptop-based Intel or AMD CPU. Tremendously so.

In addition, DLSS makes heavy use of the Tensor Cores found in RTX GPU's. The scaled down laptop variants of RTX cards already have significantly fewer Tensor cores than the desktop variants. RTX 3050 on desktops for instance only has 80 Tensor Cores, whereas the laptop variant of the 3050 has only 64 Tensor Cores. And the performance advantages of DLSS on such lower end laptop hardware is significantly reduced in comparison to desktops.

Switch 2's GPU is rumored to contain 48 tensor cores. So it's even more stripped down than any of the lower end laptop RTX cards. I wouldn't be surprised if DLSS ends up largely ignored by developers on this system due to not having a substantial benefit. At least for the games that target PS4-level tech. It may have more of a use on lower end games that don't hog the resources.
Eh, the point of DLSS is to improve performance by reducing the load on the GPU through using a lower natively-rendered resolution and using tensor cores to upscale it. It doesn't require CPU power besides general set up like any upscaler, such as those used in various Switch games like the XC series, but the result of making a game not GPU-bound anymore means the frame rate can be boosted. This is where the CPU can have a heavier load if the dev so chooses. If a game is already CPU-bound, then DLSS won't help in performance, just graphical fidelity, as a dev can instead drop the resolution, but add more details into the lower-resolution render, like raytracing. It already comes with the benefit of free anti-aliasing, something normally not seen in Nintendo's games for a long time.

As for the tensor cores, just because the higher-variant RTX GPUs have more tensor cores than the laptop-variants and what's in the T239 for Switch 2 doesn't mean DLSS is actually using them all at the same time. In fact, DLSS is on the low-end of tensor core utilization, as noted by people who have tested it.

https://www.pcgamer.com/nvidias-dls...-those-ai-accelerating-tensor-cores-after-all

"Bluedot55 ran both DLSS and third party scalers on an Nvidia RTX 4090 and measured Tensor core utilisation. Looking at average Tensor core usage, the figures under DLSS were extremely low, less than 1%.​
Initial investigations suggested even the peak utilisation registered in the 4-9% range, implying that while the Tensor cores were being used, they probably weren't actually essential. However, increasing the polling rate revealed that peak utilisation is in fact in excess of 90%, but only for brief periods measured in microseconds."​

Microseconds, not milliseconds. Sure, an RTX 4090 with roughly 10.6x the number of SMs than the T239 is leaked to have, and twice the clock frequency of what's assumed for a supposed docked mode, but even with that, the utilization for Switch 2 would still be very much within limits, especially when it's not having to deal with the PC environment. So why do these PC GPUs have so many tensor cores anyways? Well, PCs aren't just using them for games. There are a plethora of applications that could make use of them, particularly in the AI field, which push those tensor cores far more than DLSS ever will. The Switch 2 is just a gaming machine, so it's not like it needs a lot of them anyways if DLSS is the main purpose for them. As it is, Nvidia SMs have a set design, with a certain number of CUDA cores, tensor cores, etc. They may change between architectures, but within each architecture, regardless of the power of the GPU, they remain consistent. Throwing on more SMs means more tensor cores which, for gaming, go underutilized.

So, DLSS doesn't require a hefty CPU as it barely uses it, but the results could give devs reason to push the CPU harder for higher frame rates in what was originally GPU-bound scenarios. So what are we looking at in terms of Switch 2's CPU?

The most likely CPU is the Cortex A78C, which ARM themselves have stated is designed for high-performance laptops. It's the only ARM CPU that fits in with the combination of the Nvidia leak and the Linux commits regarding the T239 for having 8 BIG cores on a single cluster. Compared to the Switch's A57s, actual efficiency at the same clock frequency is just over 3x minimum. It will have double the cores than what Switch has, and folks who have used Nvidia's power tools with the assumption of a TSMC 4N process node suggest the range of 1.8-2.0Ghz to match within the realm of Switch's own CPU power budget. In total, yet a bit inaccurate terms, that's a boost of up to 12x. ARM is not a bad CPU architecture, at least for the past decade. In fact, the A57s on a per-core basis have a higher IPC than the Jaguar CPUs used in the PS4/XB1 at the same clock frequency. But of course with Switch having half the CPU cores and a drop in the clock, it wouldn't match up overall. The A78C also has a higher IPC of roughly 15-20% over Zen2 used in PS5/Series, but again, it won't be clocked as high. Having the same number of cores though means the gap between Switch 2 and PS5/Series is smaller than what it was with Switch vs PS4/XB1.

edit:

DLSS being able to provide a means to increase the frame rate is separate from frame generation.
 
Last edited by DiscostewSM,
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Kiiro_Yakumo

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For the love of... PabloMK7 confirmed that what I thought were encryption keys were NOT in fact encryption keys so unless Yuzu code has something else that would be copyrighted - I honestly DOUBT that - then Shitendo should freaking... go away.

Then again, hosting code on github which belongs to M$ is not the best idea in this case. Whenever someone will want code taken down because "muh moneys, sending DMCA lol" then M$ will NOT stand in defense of users.

Yuzu code should move somewhere else, where Craptendo won't be able to touch it (easly).
This corporation needs a reminder that fighting with Internet is always a lost cause.
 
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x149te

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Yuzu code should move somewhere else, where Craptendo won't be able to touch it (easly).
This corporation needs a reminder that fighting with Internet is always a lost cause.
They should continue. I don't see downsides. Nintendo losing money on fighting hydra, we getting fun news
 

Kiiro_Yakumo

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They should continue. I don't see downsides. Nintendo losing money on fighting hydra, we getting fun news
Of course the FLOSS hydra effect is automatic victory no matter what happens, it's just checking every time which fork, under what "name" and so on is currently active for download can be a little annoying for "end users" for the lack of better word.

I just hope that as many people as possible will remember that emulation in itself IS LEGAL no matter what senile Douchetendo is screaming, trying to warp the reality (which won't work by the way). Sony tripped on this, Atlus tripped on this. Dorktendo seems like a case of insanity however, attempting to do the same thing over and over, while expecting different results.
 

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I'm no lawyer but if the talk I've heard of some of Nintendo's proprietary code being in Yuzu is true (though I have yet to set evidence, but I haven't looked for it either), that may be grounds for revoking the open-source license, thus making these DMCA takedowns perfectly legal.
But that's a lot of qualifiers when Nintendo can just out-spend some random GitHub users and make any arguments moot.

At the end of the day, Nintendo (and other companies) will continue bullying people even if case law exists, but we don't have much case law, let alone modern case law, to protect these endeavours, so if/until we do, this is just going to keep happening.
Even if one of these cases went to court, there's still no guarantee Nintendo would lose. If they won, it would be far more dangerous than not taking it to court in the first place.
It'll probably just be a jump from Maxwell to Turing so it can support the earliest versions of DLSS. Might have the exact same number of cores and everything, just with more RAM that can also be utilized as VRAM. So yeah, existing emulators would only require slight tweaks if that is the case, along with maybe some form of DLSS translation layer. Should run very well on Nvidia desktop cards, while there would be a lot more work involved to get the upscaling running well on AMD cards.
It's not Turing, it's Ampere. Meant to be 12GB RAM, LPDDR5, maybe LPDDR5X. Supposedly will have DLSS since it should be able to output (upscaled) 4K.
 
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linuxares

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I'm no lawyer but if the talk I've heard of some of Nintendo's proprietary code being in Yuzu is true (though I have yet to set evidence, but I haven't looked for it either), that may be grounds for revoking the open-source license, thus making these DMCA takedowns perfectly legal.
But that's a lot of qualifiers when Nintendo can just out-spend some random GitHub users and make any arguments moot.
Yeah I also heard this but yet to see someone prove where that code is. Because then its a open and shut case.
The emulators have to be cleanroom else its a big nono.
Thats why Dolphin is still alive and well.
 
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The Catboy

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China would be the better option as of right now, at least they haven't invaded Taiwan quite yet. Let's hope they reconsider and never do.
The only problem with China is that it happens to be in West Taiwan
 
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I think that's what he should do as well but it seems like he intends to go the legal route since he indicated that he wanted to file a counter-claim. That's why I'm wondering how he intends to fight such a legal battle.
Best of luck to him, it's a losing battle, and much as it may suck to say, he should probably just take the loss now
 
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Xzi

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not really china would do anything for nintendo now due to tencent's switch deal
That might be true...strange world we live in when China and Japan are playing nice together. Everybody's god is green (or gold) these days, I guess.
 

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