1. banjo2

    banjo2 gamer
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    Wii U, actually
     
  2. SomeKindOfUsername

    SomeKindOfUsername GBAtemp Regular
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    Fuck Nintendo, pieces of shit!
    *continues to buy and play Nintendo games*
     
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  3. Kubas_inko

    Kubas_inko "Something funny goes here."
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    I am amazed how good the switch port runs.
     
  4. RedBlueGreen

    RedBlueGreen GBAtemp Advanced Maniac
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    I'm pretty sure you're thinking of a patent in the U.S.
     
  5. StarTrekVoyager

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    Surprised people are even making comparisons to fangame takedowns when this was literally an instance of piracy lol
    I get people getting mad at the few fan works taken down in the past few years but expecting them not to take down literal free downloads of their games is not really realistic.
     
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  6. Silent_Gunner

    Silent_Gunner Lost Wanderer Who Sees No Evil
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    "High standards" and Nintendo don't always go together. *internet service intensifies*

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    Then why is Google still your best friend? ;)
     
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  7. Hells Malice

    Hells Malice Are you a bully?
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    People with a simple understanding of the legal system especially surrounding IPs*

    But I guess children gotta justify their blind hatred by purposefully pretending facts don't exist.
     
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  8. GBADWB

    GBADWB GBAtemp Regular
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    albeit it is the correct move to shut it down, this is not piracy as there was no official port of 64 on pc, nor this is a game emulating the console using the directly ripped rom, The code used is not nintendo's code. calling this piracy is equivalent to a programmer writing a commonly used function and calling it piracy because the compiler's end result is the same. As the original code was never a copy (in fact, its probably not even a byte for byte copy either, because nintendo never set the original compiler optimization flag on 64, and this project probably did)

    the end result is like piracy that it in the end goal gives 99% of the same experience as the original version, but the creation of it was not piracy at all because there was no code to copy in the first place.

    The infringement is keeping the trademarked assets in the game, and not the game itself. If the references to every trademarked thing was removed, but the gameplay mechanics were the same, the project would probably be deemed legal.
     
    Last edited by GBADWB, May 10, 2020
  9. ClickCLK

    ClickCLK Advanced Member
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    The solution is simple: take out all assets from the game and make an utility to exctract them from n64 rom, which you must provide yourself. That's it. Nintendo can't DMCA you anymore and the project becomes completely legal.
     
  10. Viri

    Viri GBAtemp Addict
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    I'm pretty sure they already did something like that. The github only contains the program to do all the work, requiring you to have your own rom. People are doing the first step, and hosting the already decompiled and ported rom, which is what Nintendo is going after.
    https://github.com/n64decomp/sm64

    Also, it's going to become pretty funny when Mario 64 becomes the next Doom, and gets ported everywhere. "Can it run Mario 64?!"
     
    Last edited by Viri, May 10, 2020
  11. LuigiXHero

    LuigiXHero GBAtemp Regular
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  12. Phenj

    Phenj GBAtemp Fan
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    Everybody laugh.
     
  13. StarTrekVoyager

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    Oh yeah definitely. In fact this is why the hundreds, no, the thousands of Nintendo fan projects, sometimes extremely popular, keep living and will probably never receive takedowns.

    Even then the rare exceptions to this rules are instances like AM2R where a project was a direct threat to an actual project at the time (which ended up being Samus Returns).


    I feel like people forget that several Nintendo fan projects like Newer SMBWii, popular PM derivatives (Legacy XP/TE, Project+), CTGP-Revolution, or Super Smash Flash 2 never got shut down or even any threat of it, and most of those have 1M+ downloads, got news stories, and are between 5 and 10+ years old.


    Of course Pokémon is a whole other story with how absurdly strict The Pokémon Company, Inc.'s copyright policies are, but even then we have instances like Showdown, so~

    --

    Oh hey, Nintendo went after 4chan pre-compiled DLs and not after the very obvious target that's freely available on GitHub. Gee, I wonder why.
     
    Last edited by StarTrekVoyager, May 10, 2020
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  14. replicashooter

    replicashooter GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    Sure, if you're going to switch context then anything can be interpreted as anything else but in regards to their IPs they've always maintained high standards as I said and they've done that from the jump which is why people know that a new Mario, Zelda etc.. will be a well polished title worth their time, money and attention and not another Sonic Cycle shafting or similar.

    They're on top of their game in that respect which is one of the reasons why they have had such great brand recognition over decades and consistently get paid, even though netdweebs know much better about how wrong they are and how they should actually be running their business. L O L indeed.
     
  15. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer
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    The code is still an asset.

    It is not like someone watched the game, saw acceleration was this, jump behaviour was this and remade it in their own code (if you want to go further see something called clean room reverse engineering). The code was taken from the ROM itself, that it went via a decompiler is immaterial in this.
    At very best you could try some kind of interoperability claim (most law has provisions for this one) but that is still something I would expect you to have to argue, and argue hard, in court.

    They would still have trademarks on their side as well, and while there are workarounds for that from what I have seen none of them are employed.

    It is Nintendo's code. A decompiler does not pluck code of thin air but directly reads the original compiled version and recreates it from fairly direct (no real creative input, not that it matters for the purposes of clean room reverse engineering) methods. Functionally it is no different to say stripping the comments out of the code and then declaring it your own, or disassembling the ROM and calling it your own. Decompilers themselves are some of the most interesting and creative pieces of code I have ever seen but the results of using one are a different matter.
    Most copyright also makes use of a concept like substantial similarity -- I can't go to an art gallery of a painting made last year, take a picture, make it black and white (never mind say tweak a red to be slightly more vibrant) and sell a million copies.
    Official PC port, or lack thereof, matters not one bit for anything -- in some instances, say hardcore industrial gear used only by super high end professionals, when discussing trademarks you might argue that no customer would be fooled but in this case Nintendo would just point at the long list of clueless grandparents, parents and the like buying games for their kids as a primary customer and at that point you might not be sanctioned but the waste of time making that argument would be noted by the judge and likely any jury you just made it in front of.

    Equally while I imagine some assets might be trademarked (say the logo and name), or some kind of trade dress or noted colour scheme (the red and blue of mario perhaps) in those places with such protections it is the copyright that such things will mostly be concerned with when the game's assets are the thing in question.

    Any extra creative work would gain additional copyright for the full duration. The previous releases are still within the same timeframe they originally had -- you can't string things out infinitely.

    The usual example given of this sort of thing is public domain books, this is to say books of works long out of copyright. The text itself might be public domain but the typesetting (if you have ever written a document and then had to go back through to make sure it all lines up, new pages where you need it, contents page and whatever else you know how much as a pain that is), font used (assuming fonts are copyrightable in the jurisdictions concerned), any preface added and so forth mean you likely can't just photograph all the pages of your new rerelease and share them with the world, though you can OCR the original work from it all, stick it all together and go from there.

    In some cases it is also why some galleries don't like you taking pictures of their old paintings (US wise this year saw works from 1923 hit copyright free status https://web.law.duke.edu/cspd/publicdomainday/2020/ ) as they might be making money from selling reprints and if they own all the best/only scans already...

    This can make things harder if originals are hard to come by to scan back in, dump or otherwise digitise but I don't imagine that will be a problem if the ROMs are already known.
     
    Last edited by FAST6191, May 10, 2020
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  16. ClickCLK

    ClickCLK Advanced Member
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    Sorry, I don't have time right now to read through your whole post, but as far as I know (and I may be wrong on this) to recreate code from reverse engineering you first need to get asssembler code from decompilation and then translate it to any high level lanuage (I oversimplified this but I think you get the idea). So when you recreating high level code from compiled binary you basically redoing everything and your code becomes nothing like original source code, because you do same things in different ways. I'm no expert on this stuff, but I never saw any program built by decompilation to get into legal trouble except the cases where leaked code was used. My evidence to back this claim is the fact that nintendo doesn't go after original decompilation project, which is readily available at github.

    P.S: will for sure read through your whole post and will read about clean room reverse engineering when I'll have time.
     
  17. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer
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    That is the way most people do it, especially in games, mainly as it is the easiest way to do it effectively.

    If you are doing super legit you have to hold yourself to higher standards and anybody that either worked on the original or has glimpsed at a disassembly (or nowadays, or previously for Java/python/C#, decompilation) probably gets to sit things out, and if you can does not get to program the final product (see how Dolphin will bar anybody that cops to having viewed leaked SDK type info from the project).
    In this case you get to observe the game/protocol/results of pressing save file in action and recreate that.
    This is quite doable for say a binary format (you can save a document, bold it, save it again and compare the two quite happily, before rinsing and repeating for italics, right aligned text, underline, hyperlink and frankly 70% is probably good enough for people to start making use of whereas 70% of a game... hmm maybe that is why 7/10 is considered a bad score), network protocol or communications protocol but doing it for a game gets to be a nightmare (imagine how many behaviours there are in games*, and how many levels are built to take advantage of precision there).

    *if we are talking mario 64 think how direction, acceleration, timings and max distances (plus the whole half a press thing) is just involved, along with hit boxes, in the basic jump, now repeat for sideways, triple, long jump, wall kick and all the others, plus all the enemies, plus all the damaging things, plus modify for hats, modify for water, modify for sliding, and any behaviours with a camera. Some have done it in games (while most of the likes of https://osgameclones.com/ are from devs that released source code there are some that observe behaviours) but it is a rarity, and almost always strategy games, flash games, old school arcade games and homages to them. Such things also make a reasonable case study in trademark dodging as well -- most of the names not being the same as the game they remake for a reason.
     
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  18. stanleyopar2000

    stanleyopar2000 Dirty Weeb ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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    *Cough* BomberGames Streets of Rage Remake
     
  19. urherenow

    urherenow GBAtemp Psycho!
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    I haven't seen the switch port yet, but I just built the PC version from both the master branch, and again with the camera-rebase branch. Not only does it run AMAZING, but the camera-rebase branch is the coolest thing since ice cream! Not only does it give you analog camera control with the "c" buttons, but they added a config menu to the pause menu, and one of the options is to enable the mouse for looking around with the camera! The "c" buttons still work when you turn the mouse on, in case anybody is wondering.

    This is unbelievably cool. :toot::grog:

    EDIT: and apparently, very active development. Barely an hour later and the new camera branch was merged into master along with other fixes.
     
    Last edited by urherenow, May 10, 2020
  20. ChibiMofo

    ChibiMofo NPC Chibi-Robo for Wii needs a fan translation
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    Right because illegally misappropriating copyrighted intellectual property should totally be ignored by owner of said property. Are gamers really... Oh, I better not finish that sentence. Just because you want something doesn't make it legal, ethical or right. And Nintendo is DEFINITELY not the bad guy here. They are the victim. Not acknowledging that obvious fact is not very grown up.
     
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