1. Deleted User

    Deleted User Newbie

    It's like game discs: By buying it you don't own it, you're buying a license to play it.
     
  2. samcambolt270

    samcambolt270 GBAtemp Maniac
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    That's not how any of this works. First sale is very clear. When I buy an object, I have every right to do whatever I want with it. I am not buying a license to have the mario game and watch. I am buying a physical object, and nintendo has no legal right to dictate what I do with it. Besides, this isn't even the point of my post. My question is why the hell they even give a fuck. The mario game and watch is a fixed hardware device with no interchangeability, monetization or even the possibility of those things being added due to the fixed nature of the chips and software used. Me being able to hack it to add my own software to it does literally nothing to nintendo because you literally have to buy the device and therefore pay them to do it in the first place.
    If I buy it to smash it with a hammer, they lose nothing. I paid them the money to do that. If I buy it to hack it and add doom to it, they still, yet again, lose nothing. It's not even the same as hacking a 3ds or a switch, where people can use it pirate software and avoid paying nintendo, which would obviously make sense for them to want to put the kibosh on videos about it. You can't buy new games for it, and they can't even update it to allow them to sell you games for it. Videos about hacking it, at absolute worst, incentivize people to buy it even more.
     
    Last edited by samcambolt270, Jan 17, 2021
  3. godreborn

    godreborn GBAtemp Legend
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    actually, I think reselling is legal, at least now, in Japan. my ds was bought used in Akihabara. there's even a 5 story building there that's a game store where you can buy old games. they have game commercials on tvs in there too. I didn't buy any games, only the system at a neighboring store, and a pouch at a department store. I think I might still have the bag somewhere. the ds was in perfect condition too.
     
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  4. Henx

    Henx Member
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  5. ccfman2004

    ccfman2004 GBAtemp Addict
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    Actually in the US, even with physical copies you don't actually own the software, only a license to use it. You the media it's on but not the actual software. Some people are missing the point. Nintendo lawyers didn't file a copywrite infringement notice because of the hack. They filed it because it showed Nintendo copywrited software according to the person who uploaded the video if you read the OP. For some unknown reason they do not like people posting videos showing off their software in action. Many Let's Plays have been taken down due to similar complaints. Also they do not allow you to profit from showcasing their games. The DMCA really needs an overhaul to make provisions for fair use of this stuff as it was created way before the digital age we are currently in like YouTube. Also in the US you can legally make a backup of something you own as long as you don't break any encryption/copy protections to due so making pretty much everything illegal to backup.
     
  6. Henx

    Henx Member
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    I get that Nintendo is trying to protect their copyright, although they are alienating all their users and hurting them if they didn't. What I tried to convey is to tell a different story that allows them to impede content created.
    Apart from what I said, changing DMCA law does nothing to protect game preservation, neither does help making backups. If you don't have the complete iso, there is no chance to back it up. Streaming services are destructive.

    With that said, I agree the law should change to relax some fair use cases in the interest of the consumers and the community. I'm sure there is a lot of legitimate cases with passion to create and spread the love.
     
  7. samcambolt270

    samcambolt270 GBAtemp Maniac
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    This is not accurate. You do own the software you purchase if there is not a very specific limited use license that you very specifically have to blatantly agree to. Software and digital products are in fact listed among those protected under the first sale doctrine. This includes all video games on physical media, and the majority of digitally purchased games that do not specifically have online components. Companies are not allowed to revoke use of any software legally purchased on physical media or purchased online as a wholecloth product, only revoke services. Anything you do to video games or media directly purchased, (only excluding blatantly licensed ones or ones requiring continuous purchasing upkeep) is legal as case law has directly stated numerous times. An online game can ban you for hacking, but you can do nothing to me for hacking an offline one. Even transfer of ownership of a digital product is legal as long the same number of copies exist at the end as the beginning. I can legally give you a "copy" of my ebook as long as I delete and remove my ability to access it in the process. This is what allows libraries to "loan" ebooks.
     
  8. ccfman2004

    ccfman2004 GBAtemp Addict
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    I wan't responding to you actually since I didn't quote your post.

    The DMCA needs to be updated to allow game preservation by not making it illegal to backup one's game cartridge/optical media. Although I do believe that, at least for Nintendo owned games, they keep everything as revealed by recent hacks where prototype and beta software from decades ago was found along with mountains of source code with all version control changes. Piracy is one thing but preservation should not be illegal.
     
  9. Henx

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    Sorry about that! I've got it the wrong.
     
  10. samcambolt270

    samcambolt270 GBAtemp Maniac
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    Fun fact, it's effectively legal already. It's a grey area as far as case law goes for keeping both the digital and physical version at the same time, but there is precedent already in case law for the allowing of digital duplication of physical media assuming you destroy the original physical media, or if the media requires an external form of drm that can physically prevent a game from ever being played again if it breaks.
    For example, you are in your legal right to photocopy your book, then burn the original, or vise versa (printing a digital file, then deleting it). I doesn't actually matter how many changes in form your property takes as long as the same number exists by the end.
     
    Last edited by samcambolt270, Jan 17, 2021
  11. Goku1992A

    Goku1992A GBAtemp Maniac
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    Lets all be honest with ourselves piracy in general is dying. In this situation no harm will come Nintendo's way by people trying to play Pokémon blue on a game and watch gallery system for $50. If anything it would INCREASE the sales for the device.
     
  12. ccfman2004

    ccfman2004 GBAtemp Addict
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    Except that it doesn't really help with game preservation if you have to destroy the original once a copy has been made. You should be able to make a backup of physical media for archival purposes where the original media can be protected from damage while the backup is use so if the backup fails you can just make another backup from the original media. The problem is that in its current form the DCMA makes it illegal to backup physical media if it requires the user to break any kind of encryption or copy protection systems. Apps like DVD Decrypter and Requiem were both sent Cease and Desist notices and both have subsequently been discontinued to prevent any legal repercussions.
     
  13. samcambolt270

    samcambolt270 GBAtemp Maniac
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    This is not necessarily accurate, but mostly true. As I said, it's a grey area of case law. It has gone both ways. You can legally archive and preserve certain kinds of games and bypass certain forms of drm. There is actually a written exemption for the internet archive to archive games that used dongle based drms. You yourself are legally allowed to break any drm you see fit as long as you don't do it for the purposes of providing pirated content (and even then, its the providing of the content thats against the law, not the drm breaking part), but breaking it for others is something that alot of courts disagree on, unfortunately.
     
  14. ccfman2004

    ccfman2004 GBAtemp Addict
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    This is why the DCMA need to updated to include specific cases for content preservation. I remember that after Audio CDs came out and people had the ability to rip the music, music studios were up in arms about people ripping the music to play on their computer.

    I remember this little scandal from 2005: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal
     
  15. samcambolt270

    samcambolt270 GBAtemp Maniac
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    I agree. Companies shouldn't be able to dictate the mediums on which we use the things they sell us, and they similarly shouldn't be allowed to force media into obscurity or non-existance simply because they don't feel like selling it again.
     
  16. mive

    mive GBAtemp Regular
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    On amazon (germany, probably the same in at least every european country) you can still buy a ton of these chinese retro console devices with xxxx preinstalled games (also lots of nintendo ones). But amazon isn't that easy to bully like small ebay sellers
     
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  17. ccfman2004

    ccfman2004 GBAtemp Addict
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    I had an eBay listing removed because the listing said the Switch came with a licensed copy of SX OS. I was selling the Switch as it was banned from online services. The listing never said anything about including pirated games and the like as I reformatted the device and the only thing on the SD card was the boot.dat and a backup copy of the Nand before anything was installed. It was removed because of the SX OS in the listing. This is another reason the DMCA needs to updated as SX OS has legitimate uses and not just used to play pirated games. I never pirated Switch games. All .xci files are from backups I personally made with the carts I have bought. The only reason I even bought the SX OS license was simply because I could play the .xci games without having to install them so it made it easy to add new games and delete ones I wasn’t going to play without having to wait to install them first. When it comes to installing .nsp files I’ve have nothing but issues with games larger than 4gb as the as card is FAT32 as I always had issues getting SX OS to boot if the card was exFAT.
     
  18. CorteX_

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    Ahhh good old Nintendo, with behavior like this for ancient devices and many other hacking projects, them cancelling melee tournaments because it has better fanmade netcode that they are too incompetent to write, and cancelling a splatoon tournament because people were using FreeMelee in their names aka full-blown censorship, joy con drift, their horrible twitch and youtube rules and takedown notices, and them dmca'ing fullscreenmario.com and am2r and then announcing mario maker and metroid samus returns mere months later. You people that claim to want to want to boycott nintendo need to stick to their fucking word, because I'm sure a large majority will buy SM3DW + BF and probably have the game on WiiU already.
     
  19. Jayro

    Jayro MediCat USB and Malwarebytes Bootable Developer
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    Maybe if they showed off the hacking without the use of NES roms in the videos, they wouldn't be struck down.
     
  20. comput3rus3r

    comput3rus3r GBAtemp Psycho!
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    maybe they should focus on fixing the joycons
     
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