We got a glimpse of some new information about Nintendo's Switch Online Service yesterday during the Direct, but most of what was shown there was already known. To help shed a little more light on just what a subscription entails, Nintendo put a FAQ up on their site. The details are as follows:

• As already stated before the Direct, all Switch users (used to be only launch users) can get a 7 day free trial. This gives you access to online, voice chat, cloud saves, and the NES games.
• Those two wireless NES controllers are only purchasable if you have a current paid Nintendo Switch Online sub.
• The full list of 20 playable NES games for subscribers was revealed: Soccer, Tennis, Donkey Kong, Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros. 1 and 3, Balloon Fight, Ice Climber, Dr. Mario, The Legend of Zelda, Double Dragon, River City Ransom, Ghost's N Goblins, Tecmo Bowl, Gradius, Pro Wrestling, Excitebike, Yoshi, Ice Hockey, and Baseball.
• Each month, a new set of games will be added to the group.
• October will add NES Open Golf, Solomon's Key, and Super Dodge Ball
• November additions are Mighty Bomb Jack, Twinbee, and Metroid.
• December brings Wario's Woods, Adventures of Lolo, and Ninja Gaiden.
• Additionally, if you ever lapse in your subscription, you will lose all cloud data. "Save data stored with Save Data Cloud cannot be kept outside of the duration of your Nintendo Switch Online membership." If you cancel or let it expire, you'll lose all data saved on the cloud.
• If you play the NES games, you need to check in every 7 days by going online to verify your account.

Source: Nintendo UK
Source: Nintendo of America

 

[ut2k4master]

Are the cloud saves mandatory? I mean, games with cloud saves only save in the cloud, or can we choose where to save?

they are saved locally as well as online

 

[MadMageKefka]

I'm fine with all the complaints people have with the saves. It's actual shit and people are free to (and should!) raise complaints about it.

I will never, however, understand why people demand services for free. You are not using third party servers to access games, you are using Nintendo servers. To demand Nintendo give server space away for free because it was like that in the past is the epitome of entitlement. I said it in the previous thread, I'll say it in this one too: You sound like a whiny adult who got kicked out of his parent's house because you haven't got a job, are going to school, or paying rent. It was free in the past because it was value added and didn't cost a significant amount of money to run. As time has gone on, this has changed. More people are using online services for more things, and this means the data and processing power required to run these servers has increased. You are no longer children, and Nintendo has come to demand rent.

You can point your fingers at PC and proclaim "But it's free here!" and you're wrong. You are not going through anyone's servers except the developer/publisher's ones. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you won't need Nintendo online for third party services like Netflix or such. The smart ones will realize that this is because you aren't routing data through Nintendo servers to access this data.

I agree %100 with the 2nd part of what you said. These crybaby, broke-ass kids are annoying. "I deserve free stuff, wahhhh." They just clearly don't understand how bandwidth works, because I'm betting most of them have never paid a phone or internet bill before.

Read the first part of my above comment though. I just don't really see the huge issue with the save file thing. Am I missing something? Don't get me wrong, it could be better.... I just don't see why everyone is so upset.

 

[DeslotlCL]

I'm fine with all the complaints people have with the saves. It's actual shit and people are free to (and should!) raise complaints about it.

I will never, however, understand why people demand services for free. You are not using third party servers to access games, you are using Nintendo servers. To demand Nintendo give server space away for free because it was like that in the past is the epitome of entitlement. I said it in the previous thread, I'll say it in this one too: You sound like a whiny adult who got kicked out of his parent's house because you haven't got a job, are going to school, or paying rent. It was free in the past because it was value added and didn't cost a significant amount of money to run. As time has gone on, this has changed. More people are using online services for more things, and this means the data and processing power required to run these servers has increased. You are no longer children, and Nintendo has come to demand rent.

You can point your fingers at PC and proclaim "But it's free here!" and you're wrong. You are not going through anyone's servers except the developer/publisher's ones. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you won't need Nintendo online for third party services like Netflix or such. The smart ones will realize that this is because you aren't routing data through Nintendo servers to access this data.

What servers are you talking about? If nintendo were actually using servers and not relying on shitty p2p crap we wouldnt be complaining about it (:

 

[Supster131]

I'm fine with all the complaints people have with the saves. It's actual shit and people are free to (and should!) raise complaints about it.

I will never, however, understand why people demand services for free. You are not using third party servers to access games, you are using Nintendo servers. To demand Nintendo give server space away for free because it was like that in the past is the epitome of entitlement. I said it in the previous thread, I'll say it in this one too: You sound like a whiny adult who got kicked out of his parent's house because you haven't got a job, are going to school, or paying rent. It was free in the past because it was value added and didn't cost a significant amount of money to run. As time has gone on, this has changed. More people are using online services for more things, and this means the data and processing power required to run these servers has increased. You are no longer children, and Nintendo has come to demand rent.

You can point your fingers at PC and proclaim "But it's free here!" and you're wrong. You are not going through anyone's servers except the developer/publisher's ones. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you won't need Nintendo online for third party services like Netflix or such. The smart ones will realize that this is because you aren't routing data through Nintendo servers to access this data.

What servers are you talking about? If nintendo were actually using servers and not relying on shitty p2p crap we wouldnt be complaining about it (:

That and his claim on third party games using Nintendo's servers are just wrong. Let's look at a game like Rocket League on the Switch. That game uses dedicated servers hosted by its own developer, Psyonix. If we use AbyssalMoney's logic, online play for Rocket League should be free because it's not using Nintendo's servers, right?

 

[kumikochan]

I'm fine with all the complaints people have with the saves. It's actual shit and people are free to (and should!) raise complaints about it.

I will never, however, understand why people demand services for free. You are not using third party servers to access games, you are using Nintendo servers. To demand Nintendo give server space away for free because it was like that in the past is the epitome of entitlement. I said it in the previous thread, I'll say it in this one too: You sound like a whiny adult who got kicked out of his parent's house because you haven't got a job, are going to school, or paying rent. It was free in the past because it was value added and didn't cost a significant amount of money to run. As time has gone on, this has changed. More people are using online services for more things, and this means the data and processing power required to run these servers has increased. You are no longer children, and Nintendo has come to demand rent.

You can point your fingers at PC and proclaim "But it's free here!" and you're wrong. You are not going through anyone's servers except the developer/publisher's ones. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you won't need Nintendo online for third party services like Netflix or such. The smart ones will realize that this is because you aren't routing data through Nintendo servers to access this data.

No you're not using their servers mostly since it's p2p. Why do you need to pay for p2p ?

 

[AbyssalMonkey]

I agree %100 with the 2nd part of what you said. These crybaby, broke-ass kids are annoying. "I deserve free stuff, wahhhh." They just clearly don't understand how bandwidth works, because I'm betting most of them have never paid a phone or internet bill before.

Read the first part of my above comment though. I just don't really see the huge issue with the save file thing. Am I missing something? Don't get me wrong, it could be better.... I just don't see why everyone is so upset.

Honestly, I don't know either. I view the save file as added benefit and not a primary feature. Sure it's shit compared to everyone else's cloud save system, but it's Nintendo, what did you expect? They have just now started to crack down on fake tickets for their Eshop.

That and his claim on third party games using Nintendo's servers are just wrong. Let's look at a game like Rocket League on the Switch. That game uses dedicated servers hosted by its own developer, Psyonix. If we use AbyssalMoney's logic, online play for Rocket League should be free because it's not using Nintendo's servers, right?

I have a very hard time believing you know anything about how authentication works, at all. With rocket league, you are likely still accessing Nintendo servers to authenticate who you are, even if the game company isn't running their games off of Nintendo servers. Nintendo is likely playing middle-man in some way acting as your guarantor. Also, Nintendo isn't pure p2p. I severely doubt they are using p2p for things like the now dead Miiverse, ghost replay leaderboards for Mario Kart, and any sort of hub worlds in their games.

Edit: How could I even forget the actual initial handshake for the matchmaking systems in the first place? How the hell is that supposed to be p2p without a central server? Are you blasting out open connections to the WAN? You people have no clue how networking works at all do you?

 

[Supster131]

Honestly, I don't know either. I view the save file as added benefit and not a primary feature. Sure it's shit compared to everyone else's cloud save system, but it's Nintendo, what did you expect? They have just now started to crack down on fake tickets for their Eshop.


I have a very hard time believing you know anything about how authentication works, at all. With rocket league, you are likely still accessing Nintendo servers to authenticate who you are, even if the game company isn't running their games off of Nintendo servers. Nintendo is likely playing middle-man in some way acting as your guarantor. Also, Nintendo isn't pure p2p. I severely doubt they are using p2p for things like the now dead Miiverse, ghost replay leaderboards for Mario Kart, and any sort of hub worlds in their games.

Authentication isn't worth shit. If you're paying for the privilege to get authenticated, then why will games like Fortnite not require you to pay for online?

Also, stop acting like you don't know what they meant when they said P2P. Obviously Miiverse wasn't p2p, but like you said, it's dead. They were talking about actual online multiplayer, ya know, the thing Nintendo is now blocking behind a paywall.

Edit: How can I even forget?! You mentioned PC previously:

You can point your fingers at PC and proclaim "But it's free here!" and you're wrong. You are not going through anyone's servers except the developer/publisher's ones

Steam can be considered the authenticator on PC and they don't charge you for the privilege to get authenticated when playing a game like Rocket League online which has its own dedicated servers.

 

[eyeliner]

they are saved locally as well as online

So, if one's sub goes haywire, there's the local save? I don't really see a problem, there. It would basically mean paying 20$ for a kickass NES emulator, then, as I don't have the time to devote to online gaming. Still, no thanks.

 

[Saiyan Lusitano]

Sony keeps cloud saves for up to six months yet Nintendo can't even be bothered with it. I'm not playing online anymore on my Switch and it's completely offline so Nintendo isn't getting any more of my dough, I've become a bit tired of paying for their overpriced games.

 

[ut2k4master]

So, if one's sub goes haywire, there's the local save?

correct

 

[Huntereb]

I agree %100 with the 2nd part of what you said. These crybaby, broke-ass kids are annoying. "I deserve free stuff, wahhhh." They just clearly don't understand how bandwidth works, because I'm betting most of them have never paid a phone or internet bill before.

It's OK, save backups are freely available with homebrew. No need to spend money for this feature. Could have easily been implemented in a similar method client-side, but nah. Better lock it behind our servers and pay wall!

 

[Deleted member 331788]

The NES selection is fucking terrible and slowly dripping more is awful.
They've killed piracy sites
They've killed Virtual Console
The least they could do is offer a large selection of NES, SNES, GB(C) and GBA games. They have emulators that run all of those perfectly and it's apparent that they don't want us buying them or pirating them in any other way.

Why do they think NES games are some exciting selling point in the year 2018? Especially after they just relased the NES and SNES Classics.

What i don't get is why do they care so much about the old roms after all these years??? ...yet with switch piracy you can find any switch game freely available on those other sites!

 

[DJPlace]

FFS Nintendo, even Sony gives you 6 months to download your cloud saves after you cancel your PS+ subscription, would it kill you to do the same? God forbid Nintendo lose out on that precious 100mb worth of space some guy used to store his saves!

that never happened to me before. i never lost my cloud saves even once.

 

[Huntereb]

What i don't get is why do they care so much about the old roms after all these years??? ...yet with switch piracy you can find any switch game freely available on those other sites!

Any and all roms can be obtained through those torrent sites. Literally "ALL NES ROMS EVER" torrent packs exist, only amounting to a few gigabytes. Just grab them and never concern yourself about it ever again.

 

[AbyssalMonkey]

It's OK, save backups are freely available with homebrew. No need to spend money for this feature. Could have easily been implemented in a similar method client-side, but nah. Better lock it behind our servers and pay wall!

This is only from the opinion of someone who can't think like Nintendo. Nintendo doesn't want any chance of someone tampering with saves to add a payload to crack the system going forward. I can understand why they don't want user-side backups officially supported. Though that doesn't mean that they couldn't solve this problem with encryption, but that's expecting too much from Nintendo.

I still hold that the cloud save is an added feature for the main portion of the package which is for their online services. You aren't going to buy this for just the cloud saves, and I don't think they expect it either. Treating it as the main selling point is missing the point.

 

[Huntereb]

This is only from the opinion of someone who can't think like Nintendo. Nintendo doesn't want any chance of someone tampering with saves to add a payload to crack the system going forward. I can understand why they don't want user-side backups officially supported. Though that doesn't mean that they couldn't solve this problem with encryption, but that's expecting too much from Nintendo.

The 3DS saved its save data to the SD card (Assuming it was a downloaded title) and could easily be backed up and restored, assuming you knew the title ID of the game in question. All of the save data was encrypted, and many games had features to detect if a save had been restored from a previous point by checking file dates.

I still hold that the cloud save is an added feature for the main portion of the package which is for their online services. You aren't going to buy this for just the cloud saves, and I don't think they expect it either. Treating it as the main selling point is missing the point.

I don't see any reason you'd be buying this beyond "because the features are walled off from me unless I pay for them!!". No virtual console, no save data backup, and no free peer-to-fucking-peer online are all just shit they didn't implement because they knew suckers would pay for it. No other excuse.

 

[AbyssalMonkey]

The 3DS saved its save data to the SD card (Assuming it was a downloaded title) and could easily be backed up and restored, assuming you knew the title ID of the game in question. All of the save data was encrypted, and many games had features to detect if a save had been restored from a previous point by checking file dates.


I don't see any reason you'd be buying this beyond "because the features are walled off from me unless I pay for them!!". No virtual console, no save data backup, and no free peer-to-fucking-peer online are all just shit they didn't implement because they knew suckers would pay for it. No other excuse.

Save data is one more point of failure. Nintendo needs to keep that in mind when they are marketing this console to publishers. I won't claim to know much about how the 3DS did it, but seeing as how Nintendo already knows their console has been hacked in the first year of it's release, they're clamping down even harder.

Nintendo is charging you for a service. All matchmaking in any online games does a handshake and authentication to their servers. Even if the games themselves run P2P, that's still bandwidth. Asking for free things that cost money is the pinnacle of entitlement. I've already stated how whining about it is like an adult pretending to be a petulant child.

I refuse to engage in any argument comparing consoles to steam for paid services because Nintendo is a closed platform, they have no competitors. Steam has to fight with people like GoG, Origin, Ubisoft, etc., so making a paid marketplace that is acting as DRM is suicidal. Nintendo doesn't have this issue, they only need to compete with Sony and Microsoft, who both charge significantly more for their online services. The other consoles manufacturers decided that they didn't want to have to pay for their bandwidth and are now charging for it, with Nintendo now following suit. Even if they did decide to lock out virtual console behind it as a business move to force people to buy it, that's its own separate issue, and one to not be conflated with the asking to pay for your own bandwidth.

I'm done with this thread and with any other thread. I'm just going to sit by the sidelines and laugh at the petulant, whiny, entitled children who refuse to grow up, think about why things are happening and sit there and one sidedly complain without looking at the issue from a larger perspective. Enjoy waving your sticks at the shadows in the bottom of the cave, maybe you'll hit a bat.

 

[the_randomizer]

Why does everyone care about the cloud saves being deleted if your sub ends? The only way this would be a problem is if you're seriously too broke to afford $20 *AND* your Switch just happens to break while you're couch diving for your YEARLY internet fee. Besides, it's not like them being deleted deletes them off your console. Even deleting the game doesn't do that.




Because some of us realize that bandwidth doesn't grow on trees, and that with Nintendo doing what its fans asked for by adding TONS of 3rd party games to the eShop, some of those *3rd party games that Nintendo didn't make* use their online service to connect. Asking $20 for the ENTIRE YEAR really isn't unfair at all, and honestly anyone complaining CLEARLY doesn't have a job, or is EXTREMELY petty with their money.

Sorry, but it's still shit, 20 NES games, and the fact that cloud saves get removed if you stop the service. People are certainly sycophantic.

If there were Snes games, I would reconsider my opinion, but NES games? Boring AF.

 

[Dominator211]

well, as long as the nes games save data is local, nintendo literally kinda screwed up their online even more

 

[Supster131]

I'm done with this thread and with any other thread. I'm just going to sit by the sidelines and laugh at the petulant, whiny, entitled children who refuse to grow up, think about why things are happening and sit there and one sidedly complain without looking at the issue from a larger perspective. Enjoy waving your sticks at the shadows in the bottom of the cave, maybe you'll hit a bat.

While I'm going to laugh at those defending Nintendo and allowing Nintendo to fuck them over.

I've stated this before, but I'll say it again. Prior to the Xbox One launch, Microsoft was being very anti-consumer. Did people defend Microsoft and allow them to do whatever the fuck they wanted? NO! Instead, they fought back and spoke with their wallets. Now Microsoft is currently the most consumer-friendly company of out the three. Why do you not want the same thing to happen with Nintendo? Do you not want Nintendo Switch online to be a great service? Are you ok with it being mediocre? Why is Nintendo held to a different standard than Microsoft and Sony? This next line of yours show just that.

Though that doesn't mean that they couldn't solve this problem with encryption, but that's expecting too much from Nintendo.