Nintendo clarifies details about cloud saves, will keep saves stored for 6 months after cancellation

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After initial reports came in that Nintendo would immediately delete cloud saves once your Nintendo Online Subscription ran out, the company has stepped in to better explain their policy. An official Nintendo representative explained that players' cloud save files would remain safe for a full 180 days before they get deleted. If you cancel your subscription, you'll lose access to those save files instantly, but customers don't need to be wary, as there's confirmation that Nintendo will keep your data for 6 months, giving a grace period to those who want to come back at a later date to resubscribe and retain their saves. Certain save files of games like Dark Souls Remastered or Pokemon Let's Go will still not support cloud saves, as a means to prevent players from exploiting and duplicating items in specific titles.

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RattletraPM

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Nintendo didn't say "we changed our mind" because it'd be a VERY bad marketing move. You can't let your shareholders see you as "weak". Elon Musk lost $5.4 billion after simply saying that he was stressed. You will NEVER see any company with stocks doing this, ever. Saying that they should be "honest" about such decisions is simply ridiculous.
Microsoft did it with the XBone tho, literally ending their statement with "Thank you again for your candid feedback. Our team remains committed to listening, taking feedback and delivering a great product for you later this year."

I'm not a huge fan of Microsoft either but literally the only dishonest thing you could say about that article is that the feedback was anything but candid.
 
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Song of storms

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the crossplay thing. You said a company with stocks will never go back on what they said and even admit it well Sony just did with their crossplay statement so companies sometimes do that.
Quoting the original line:

"Following a comprehensive evaluation process, SIE has identified a path toward supporting cross-platform features for select third party content. We recognize that PS4 players have been eagerly awaiting an update, and we appreciate the community’s continued patience as we have navigated through this issue to find a solution."


Saying that you have found a solution to an issue because your console is too cool for crossplay is much different than saying "we changed our mind".
 

kumikochan

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Quoting the original line:

"Following a comprehensive evaluation process, SIE has identified a path toward supporting cross-platform features for select third party content. We recognize that PS4 players have been eagerly awaiting an update, and we appreciate the community’s continued patience as we have navigated through this issue to find a solution."


Saying that you have found a solution to an issue because your console is too cool for crossplay is much different than saying "we changed our mind".
Oh come on, you clearly said a company with stocks WILL never go back on what they said. Well Sony did and that's that
 

godreborn

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I have a question: if you upload a save to cloud, the original save gets corrupted, can you then download the non-corrupted, cloud save? I mean the corrupted save won't get uploaded and replace the good save, will it? ....unless I'm not understanding the purpose to cloud saving.
 

kumikochan

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I have a question: if you upload a save to cloud, the original save gets corrupted, can you then download the non-corrupted, cloud save? I mean the corrupted save won't get uploaded and replace the good save, will it? ....unless I'm not understanding the purpose to cloud saving.
yeah you can pick the cloud save wich will overwrite the local save if you choose to do so
 
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godreborn

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but afaik the system saves to cloud automatically at random times. will that be a problem if it uploads a corrupted save?
 

FAST6191

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I'd agree but it'd be really weird for them to erase saves that fast. Makes more sense that their storage just sets a timer for a few months.
There are any number of online services that will erase your data the second you ask or fail to pay, indeed I would probably assume it the default for most. Similarly it would be an extra step for their coders (presumably storage bods hired off the street and told to do as usual) to add such a feature to hold it in limbo.

I don't know if they are doing some kind of huge database or giant file storage. The ambiguity in the terms phrasing saying to me they might have had some kind of cleanup service/cron job they run every so often/when demand allows rather than straight instant for everybody*. In that case some might have got lucky but as they could not guarantee it would not happen.

*let's play back of the envelope server builder. I will go with UK prices as they are probably not going to get away with burying the server somewhere in the third world or India for this one. UK will be as expensive, or probably more, than the US, Canada, the rest of Europe or Japan for everything here.
http://www.vgchartz.com/analysis/platform_totals/ reckons 20.07 million global sales. Number of games per user I don't know about. http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/game...astupdate=0&showlastupdate=1&showothersales=0 would have no game as above 10 million right now and you are at number 15 before you are below a million. Save size I am not sure about either and will probably vary a bit.
We will say 100 megs per user going by what people say around here when ripping their saves, similar games and such. For 80% attach rate to the online service that is 1500 or so terabytes.
https://www.thinkmate.com/system/stx-cl-xe72-2460 will sell me a storage server with 576 TB for about £25000 , halve it though and go full redundancy RAID. Multiply by 6 to get the storage space enough for that (it is usually easy enough to scale these things too -- storage clusters being a known concept). Somewhere around £153000 landed. 807.6 Watts a piece so nothing too outrageous on that front (it is no GPU bitcoin mining operation or anything).
Anyway each of those is 4u. 4u rack on https://hostinguk.net/quote/coloquote (a UK colocation hosting outfit) with 5000gigs a month is £300 a month (can add unmetered connections as well for not a lot, and will probably have them for a while for data burst). We have 6 so £1800 a month. £21600 a year. £172800 if we assume the Switch lives another 8 years at the same numbers of users.
So that is hardware and running the things. A server admin (they probably have a full network team already they can expand or task but hey).
I could start adding tape backups to this I guess but this is getting silly so I will leave it there for now. It would be annoying as well for most tapes seem to be in the terabyte range and I don't know what deltas or dailies will get me here.

Anyway https://www.indeed.co.uk/Database-Administrator-jobs has on the steep side about £50000 a year for a dbadmin (might as well have India in this as well https://www.naukri.com/db-admin-jobs ). Assume it costs £100000 with pension contributions and whatnot (or maybe someone is a big boy server bothering type or a coder and costs a bit more) and you get 6 of them. £600000 plus the earlier stuff is £774600. We are still under a million at this point to go from nothing to this. Between hardware replacements, upgrades for more storage and all that jazz I will assume a constant of about that and most of that is salary. This is for rolling their own as well, purchasing in a service (or riding out the bumps with one). If for some reason we have to do high availability or fault tolerant (we don't -- they took their eshop down the other day and that actually makes them money) then that gets a bit higher but given it is not going to make more salary really and hardware/running costs are but a small fraction of that. Even a complete and total failure with the servers vanishing in a puff of smoke could probably be worked around without too many traumas (people just need to upload their saves again, which they will probably be doing anyway, sucks for those few that managed to lose their device in the meantime and backups might even help there).

I don't know what the ageing out rate will be either but probably not too high and new user spikes are probably nothing too drastic either (demands predictable is what I am heading for). If it is only going to be 100 megs or so (and it is not likely to be your most hardcore with dozens that do age out) then it is not an awful lot of "redundant" data to keep on your servers. If it was some multi gig per user video hosting affair then yeah it makes more sense, though for that sort of thing you probably charge an awful lot more.

Recall at this point you have some 16000000 (16 million) in this estimate paying you somewhat more than a pound each a year (cost to user is £17.99 for an annual subscription, though 20% will be tax), plus the cut from the online services (don't know what the eshop costs developers, most seem unwilling to speak out but https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-03-10-why-nintendo-switch-games-are-ending-up-more-expensive would indicate "not cheap" and with Apple and Google taking a double digits and then some percentage I don't imagine it is too far off that. Technically that probably should be pointed at hosting/CDN costs for the game but given things already mentioned they are not going to be that bad either) and general licensing fees.

I can almost see offering such a service for free (a million a year is nothing really for a big business like this), though it does not sting as much as them wanting to charge for online gaming which is probably even cheaper and cheaper still if they stick with p2p.

I have a question: if you upload a save to cloud, the original save gets corrupted, can you then download the non-corrupted, cloud save? I mean the corrupted save won't get uploaded and replace the good save, will it? ....unless I'm not understanding the purpose to cloud saving.
If the save has an inbuilt verification check then the corruption would have to amount to a collision there and that is not likely to happen.

Nintendo didn't say "we changed our mind" because it'd be a VERY bad marketing move. You can't let your shareholders see you as "weak". Elon Musk lost $5.4 billion after simply saying that he was stressed. You will NEVER see any company with stocks doing this, ever. Saying that they should be "honest" about such decisions is simply ridiculous.
Isn't Mr Musk one of those face of the company type people as far as stock buying types go? Far more than the average CEO or whatnot.
 

Captain_N

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what needs doing is a server to be created that mics the save cloud server. then have the switch connect to that instead. then you can run your own cloud save server. then Nintendo cant ban you for backing up saves with homebrew. Obviously the data is encrypted....
 

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I love the accusations of fake news. It makes far more sense that Nintendo simply changed their mind when they saw the vocal response to their decision much in the same way Sony did. However, please continue throwing accusations that everything you disagree with or makes your favored company look bad is fake news.

It seems to be the norm nowadays that optics decide the validity of the press. If it makes us look good, it's absolutely true, if it doesn't then it's not real. It's not even as though Nintendo has a better track record than another business with being upfront with consumers.

Seems a bit like damage control from them and the extremist sector of their Fandom.

Also the costs and figures don't matter, neither of the competitors in their sector of private business deleted saves instantly and Microsoft even offers free backup.
 
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AkikoKumagara

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Seems a bit like damage control from them and the extremist sector of their Fandom.

Hard to say, but to me it looks as though people jumped the gun. The answer to the question on the FAQ was oversimplified saying something like "Save data will not be retained if a subscription expires". This does not imply it will stop existing immediately, just that it will stop existing. That being said, it should have been made clear immediately, if indeed it was always the plan.
 

kingfrost

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Hard to say, but to me it looks as though people jumped the gun. The answer to the question on the FAQ was oversimplified saying something like "Save data will not be retained if a subscription expires". This does not imply it will stop existing immediately, just that it will stop existing. That being said, it should have been made clear immediately, if indeed it was always the plan.

It is but I'd also like to say that many people defend them before this was clarified so Nintendo may have just thought that would be the response from everyone They seem to be more in sync lately with what that vocal minority wants from them anyway.

I can't imagine how they wouldn't have clarified this as soon as the response happened if it was as smile as they clarification. It seems more like they wanted to see if it would fade and then made a decision. Still, I agree that clarification from the begging, if that was the case, would have prevented all of this. Hopefully, they keep that in mind going forward.
 

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I love the accusations of fake news. It makes far more sense that Nintendo simply changed their mind when they saw the vocal response to their decision much in the same way Sony did. However, please continue throwing accusations that everything you disagree with or makes your favored company look bad is fake news.

It seems to be the norm nowadays that optics decide the validity of the press. If it makes us look good, it's absolutely true, if it doesn't then it's not real. It's not even as though Nintendo has a better track record than another business with being upfront with consumers.

Seems a bit like damage control from them and the extremist sector of their Fandom.

Also the costs and figures don't matter, neither of the competitors in their sector of private business deleted saves instantly and Microsoft even offers free backup.


Their fault for not having the right information. Gee, thanks for the confusion, NOE.
 

sarkwalvein

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I love the accusations of fake news. It makes far more sense that Nintendo simply changed their mind when they saw the vocal response to their decision much in the same way Sony did. However, please continue throwing accusations that everything you disagree with or makes your favored company look bad is fake news.

It seems to be the norm nowadays that optics decide the validity of the press. If it makes us look good, it's absolutely true, if it doesn't then it's not real. It's not even as though Nintendo has a better track record than another business with being upfront with consumers.

Seems a bit like damage control from them and the extremist sector of their Fandom.

Also the costs and figures don't matter, neither of the competitors in their sector of private business deleted saves instantly and Microsoft even offers free backup.
It is not about creating creating "truth" bubbles to "decide the validity of the press". It's about having serious journalism.
Again you are thinking with the fanboy and teams mentality, I find that sad. The press and corporations laugh at us, they are just using the old divide and conquer tactic to make all of us oppose each other so we forget about them and they can get away with feeding us shit and manipulating us.
Current journalism is harmful, and the attitude to treat everything as a "breaking scandal" before checking it up is shameless.
I am and will be as skeptic as you or more, but before misinforming quickly for the clicks one should think about his responsibility as a journalist.
We common folk can talk shit, sure. We are worthless, but who cares.
In the other hand the people whose job is to inform cannot go talking bullshit like any other idiot on a forum, they have a fucking job, a responsibility.

Say what you will, but I find that sensationalist behavior is something to be attacked and discredited until it goes away and disappears (it never will).
 
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Tony_93

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I'd sooner believe the actual company to explain their own shit than sensationalist news outlets or fanboys who didn't get their facts straight in the first place.
Sensationalist news outlets and angry fanboys who didn't get their facts straight you say?

Q. After my Nintendo Switch Online subscription expires, will my Save Data Cloud files and Nintendo Entertainment System – Nintendo Switch Online save data be erased?
A. Save data stored with Save Data Cloud cannot be kept outside of the duration of your Nintendo Switch Online membership
https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Nintendo-Switch/Nintendo-Switch-Online/FAQ-1374625.html

30u5jt3.jpg
 
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kingfrost

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It is not about creating creating "truth" bubbles to "decide the validity of the press". It's about having serious journalism.
Again you are thinking with the fanboy and teams mentality, I find that sad. The press and corporations laugh at us, they are just using the old divide and conquer tactic to make all of us oppose each other so we forget about them and they can get away with feeding us shit and manipulating us.
Current journalism is harmful, and the attitude to treat everything as a "breaking scandal" before checking it up is shameless.
I am and will be as skeptic as you or more, but before misinforming quickly for the clicks one should think about his responsibility as a journalist.
We common folk can talk shit, sure. We are worthless, but who cares.
In the other hand the people whose job is to inform cannot go talking bullshit like any other idiot on a forum, they have a fucking job, a responsibility.

Say what you will, but I find that sensationalist behavior is something to be attacked and discredited until it goes away and disappears (it never will).

No actually I'm not on any team. I'll gladly point out hypocrisy and bad decisions no matter who makes them. The very fact that you feel the need to attempt to discredit me with no proof and your own sensationalist behavior proves you have absolutely no idea what you're even talking about.

I find it very dangerous to take such a militant attitude toward all the press as you do and that goes for press about anything. There is a difference between healthy cynicism and paranoia. In times like this, far more than ever, it's very important to draw that line.

On this topic, I think you're confusing mild confusion and disagreement with, how did you put it, scandal breaking? The only people who treated this like a true scandal did it to get a reaction out of the other side, something that unfortunately is common inside and outside the press.

Sensationalist news outlets and angry fanboys who didn't get their facts straight you say?


https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Nintendo-Switch/Nintendo-Switch-Online/FAQ-1374625.html

30u5jt3.jpg

Perfect because this points out that they had a very clear idea of time lines for the features. Right below where it says your saves will be deleted, it mentions that the offline features of the service can be used for seven days. Do people really believe they just forgot to mention the time frame for saves?
 

sarkwalvein

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The very fact that you feel the need to attempt to discredit me with no proof and your own sensationalist behavior proves you have absolutely no idea what you're even talking about.
I don't feel the need nor I am trying to discredit you, but professional journalists that willingly do not check their "info" and present it as a scandal in order to get more clicks, but I already have this sensation that people don't read what I write.
Though, this "misunderstanding" happening before must very well mean that I write like shit, and that is what leads to misunderstanding.
Whatever the case, it gets frustrating and tiring to get scared people get too defensive and throw that "you're attacking me/discrediting me" all the time, be it my fault or not.
 

kingfrost

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I don't feel the need nor I am trying to discredit you, but professional journalists that willingly do not check their "info" and present it as a scandal in order to get more clicks, but I already have this sensation that people don't read what I write.
Though, this "misunderstanding" happening before must very well mean that I write like shit, and that is what leads to misunderstanding.
Whatever the case, it gets frustrating and tiring to get scared people get too defensive and throw that "you're attacking me/discrediting me" all the time, be it my fault or not.

Yet again, I'm not scared. I'm pointing out that you don't seem to grasp that Nintendo posted one thing in their FAQ only after the reaction changed what they said. Now people want to pretend that they forgot to mention it, even though they laid out timelines for other things. Not to mention, they waited until a week before online went live to make any kind of announcements about it. Yet again, I have no clue what you're talking about with the whole fake news here, there was no fake news.

Outlets reported what Nintendo gave them. Nintendo should have provided better information, further in advance. The information that was reported was freely available to everyone. No one made it up for the purpose of their articles. It's not fake news if it's real.

I'm not frustrated in the least by the way;I'm mystified.
 

LWGShane

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sensationalist news outlets or fanboys who didn't get their facts straight in the first place

because they never said it would immediately expire

People were salty over incomplete info and misinformation

You're all wrong. The information came directly from Nintendo's website. The FAQ stated that "Save data stored with Save Data Cloud cannot be kept outside of the duration of your Nintendo Switch Online membership".

Simply put: All this is back-peddling. Nothing more. Nothing less.
 
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