Nintendo and friends win $1Million in damages against R4 carts

chartube12

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"It is often easier to ask for forgiveness then it is for permission" In the case of flash card distributors, Nintendo's reply is to GTH. While their reply to the 3DS user base in general is, "nice try we'll just block your unlicensed storage media in an update. As a bonus we have thrown in digital copies for sale on the 3ds, so those claiming the storage media saves them carrying multiple game cards lose an excuse. We'll only provide the games in digital form we and our partners believe to be higher popular IPs however"
 

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"We don't condone piracy and advise against it, but here are all the future updates, guides, and tools to always ensure you'll be able to do just that"
 

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This isn't a lawsuit for using an R4, this is for selling it. If they were suing someone for using an R4 that would be different but this is for distributing R4s.
What's the difference between creating a system update to block use of them than to cut off the distributors?
You missed my point, I wasn't talking about this particular lawsuit, I was talking about the ridiculousness of delegalizing flashcarts as a medium in general.
"We don't condone piracy and advise against it, but here are all the future updates, guides, and tools to always ensure you'll be able to do just that"
Backup copy =/= Pirate copy. The carts are for launching backed up content - what you do with them is your business and your choice.
 
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You missed my point, I wasn't talking about this particular lawsuit, I was talking about the ridiculousness of delegalizing flashcarts as a medium in general.

Backup copy =/= Pirate copy. The carts are for launching backed up content - what you do with them is your business and your choice.

Backup copy is just an excuse people use for legal justifications.
 

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But you buy ONE copy of the game, not unlimited.
That's not true. You buy the license to use one (or more if it's a group license) copy of a given piece of software at any given time. You can have as many backup copies of it as you feel like, you just can't share them or simultaneously use more than one.

You're entirely entitled to back it up as many times as you want, in fact, you feel like it, you can build a castle out of your backup copies - it doesn't matter as long as you're only using one copy at any given time and you're not sharing your copy with anyone.

Software isn't a tangible object - it's just data. You can replicate it as many times as you want.

Going by your logic, if I buy a CD of my favourite band, rip it, put the MP3's on my MP3 player and then put the CD back in its case and on the shelf for the sake of preserving it, I'm pirating music. Naturally this is not the case (and yes, I know there are groups which lobby that it is in order to ask for money twice for the same goods). To play this backup, I need a piece of hardware - an MP3 player. Simple.

Now, naturally music isn't software, but it's the closest analogy you could ask for, really.
 
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FAST6191

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But you buy ONE copy of the game, not unlimited.
That is an incredibly complex issue and not one that you can make such a ruling as it were on. Suffice it to say format shifting, time shifting and personal use adaptive reworking, concepts which share a great deal in common with things in this instance, have been ruled legal. http://www.law.cornell.edu/copyright/cases/464_US_417.htm being a good example of one of them.

It may or may not be problematic to run multiple copies at once but that is a different matter.
 

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That's a very bold statement. I'm sure all the gangs, drug cartels and criminals generally have their guns registered and don't obtain them in an illegal fashion at all.
Right. Just like those of us in countries where flash cards are banned don't obtain them in an illegal fashion either.

Because nobody has ever used a flashcart to listen to music, use an organizer or watch video clips that they legally own.
That's not the point, though, is it? Flash cards don't have a legitimate business purpose, they don't represent a significant importance like CDs and DVDs did.

I don't see how comparing rewrittable storage to rewrittable storage is in any way unfair.
But that's not what you're comparing. They're banning a copyright circumvention device―many of which provide patches or updates to circumvent further copy protections in the actual game code―that may, or may not, have rewritable storage as an additional feature. Most flash cards accept rewritable storage as a medium, but if you exclude the flashable bootloaders, not many of them include it.

Then DVD's and CD's should be banned as well as those too are used in making illegal copies - of DVD's and CD's.
But like I said before, those items are (or were) invaluable to a much larger market across the world for legitimate purposes. The number of people using a flash card for legitimate purposes is comparatively tiny.

But it's the individual who committed the felony/crime - why would you not do that?

So what if it's impractical and the damages are small? It's merely unmasking how little impact piracy actually has on the industry. Again, in the case of a stabbing, I'm sure that chasing the company that made the knife is much more practical, but they're still not responsible for someone who stabbed another person with their knife. You don't chase the knife manufacturer, you chase the criminal.

...and none of those things in any way harm the developers who actually made the games.
Well, like I said it's not really feasible. Nintendo can't sue Jim if Jim copied a game published by Capcom. Capcom could, but the damages are technically minimal (much less than the RRP as I previously mentioned) and potentially nothing as you said before. If Jim was selling or sharing the illegal copy then, yes, the damages would be more substantial. Instead, though, it makes much more sense to go after those facilitating piracy than those committing it.

I'm not at all arguing the effect of piracy on the market. If you want to use the case of stabbing, I think that if, tomorrow 100 websites popped up selling different types of dangerous knives, along with guides on how they can make them more effective at doing harm (sharpening vs firmware updates) and tutorials on where to stab people to do the most harm possible (vs tutorials on how to load retail games onto a card), then probably the justice system would try and do something about it. When things become a problem, it's common for the law to step in and deal with it.

Seeing that users have a right to backup their software, I don't see anything unreasonable in telling them how to do it and subsequently how to use the backup.
Except nobody is naive enough to think that they're selling R4 cards to angelic citizens who'd never do anything like pirate games. Instead, all these retailers are fully aware that they're making money from facilitating piracy, making them almost as bad as bootleg distributors. They know it, the games companies know it and the courts know it and that's how it can be justified that they're in the wrong.
 

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On the subject of flashcarts as a storage medium/adapter, let's just agree to disagree since you can't really support your claims with any statistics. The issues of feasibility are not of legal concern - you can only punish a person who has committed a crime, meaning the pirate. Flashcart users in normal countries where flashcarts aren't banned can get away with them scot-free with purchasing them, and thank God for that.

Piracy is a choice made by the user and that's pretty much that. Obviously "Angelic" users are not the target audience of flashcarts and yes, they are primarily used by pirates but that doesn't make them in any way illegitimate.

On the issue of patches, it's not entirely illegal and depends highly on the country we're talking about - where I live, the code of a program in question may be patched by the user by any means necessary to launch it on the platform of the user's choosing, so yes, where I live cracks are entirely legal.
 

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Piracy is a choice made by the user and that's pretty much that. Obviously "Angelic" users are not the target audience of flashcarts and yes, they are primarily used by pirates but that doesn't make them in any way illegitimate.

Though I wish it would happen more and happen more as a result of scientific decision making we have a great many laws and such like that work on the basis of probabilities, indeed among this we have phrases like "substantial noninfringing uses" and even coming the other way the idea of transformation where copyright itself plays out. To step back a bit there we might debate how that plays out here but the previous sentence does still carry some weight.
 

Foxi4

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Though I wish it would happen more and happen more as a result of scientific decision making we have a great many laws and such like that work on the basis of probabilities, indeed among this we have phrases like "substantial noninfringing uses" and even coming the other way the idea of transformation where copyright itself plays out. To step back a bit there we might debate how that plays out here but the previous sentence does still carry some weight.

I see this issue similarily to the good old prase "guns don't kill people, people kill people" - flashcarts don't pirate software, users pirate software. ;) If a VHS recorder connected to a TV which had only one primary function - recording movies screened on live TV and copying VHS tapes has "substantial noninfringing uses" then so do flashcarts. I can't remember myself ever using a CD burner for something other than piracy and that says a lot.
 

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On the subject of flashcarts as a storage medium/adapter, let's just agree to disagree since you can't really support your claims with any statistics. The issues of feasibility are not of legal concern - you can only punish a person who has committed a crime, meaning the pirate. Flashcart users in normal countries where flashcarts aren't banned can get away with them scot-free with purchasing them, and thank God for that.

Piracy is a choice made by the user and that's pretty much that. Obviously "Angelic" users are not the target audience of flashcarts and yes, they are primarily used by pirates but that doesn't make them in any way illegitimate.

On the issue of patches, it's not entirely illegal and depends highly on the country we're talking about - where I live, the code of a program in question may be patched by the user by any means necessary to launch it on the platform of the user's choosing, so yes, where I live cracks are entirely legal.

I agree, piracy is a choice made by the user. However, what makes flash cards illegitimate is laws made up to disallow the import, export and sale of those products and all I'm saying is that I think those laws are justified. And that's coming from someone who also rarely used his CD burner (or his flash card, for that matter) for legitimate purposes. While it may seem unfair, it's not uncommon to inconvenience the minority for the sake of dealing with the majority. It's a case of many bad eggs (including me :P) ruining it for you poor legitimate backuppers.

VHS and Betamax, again, had a strong legitimate use; at one point it was the only medium for home camcorders and the vast majority of people used them for time shifting and not watching copied movies, for instance. Companies did try and take action against them (see Sony vs Universal Studios). If the majority use had been for illegitimate purposes, then I think things may have been different.

As you said, we differ in opinions here and that's not likely to change. And that's OK with me, I'm the kind of person who enjoys a nice little debate with random people on/in the Internet/pub.
 

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So? Chrome translates it for you automatically, so why would that matter?
I don't have my own computer (yet) and have to do everything in a cyberbase where they force you to use IE :cry::nayps3:
I can't instal chrome because there are admin blocks not just with installing (otherwise I would've used a portable version) but also with launching!
ON TOP OF THAT, I've been warned with a permenant ban when I was trying to bypass the admin block >.<
 

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