Nintendo and friends win $1Million in damages against R4 carts

Foxi4

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The interesting thing is that I remember The 10 Commandments winning a lawsuit against VHS in damages because those who can watch The 10 Commandments at any time instead of (I think) once a year would not bother to watch the commericals that coincide with the official screening, thus losing profits.

I remember the exact opposite.

If there was a way to legally digitalize the content along the lines of Sony's UMD Passport (which unfortunately only worked in Japan and for a limited time) then this crusade would be entirely justified, but this is not the case. As it stands today, flashcarts have a primary non-infringing use and the fact that they are mostly used for piracy is irrelevant because piracy is a crime committed by an individual, not by some evil criminal mastermind somewhere in China who plots to destroy Nintendo or game developers, they merely supply the market with a product that's in high demand and what the end user does with it is really none of their concern, much like a disc writer manufacturer isn't concerned with the fact that their hardware might be used for burning illegitimate copies of media.

Going along Nintendo's line of logic, we should ban TiVo boxes because they record footage, even if only for the sake of fast forwarding or rewinding. While we're at it, let's ban cameras altogether because those too can be used for camrips, no matter what anti-piracy protection is used. Hell, we should heavily restrict the Internet - the primary source of all pirated content in the world.

If you want to take the fight somewhere, take it to the individual committing the crime, not the manufacturer of the hardware used. When someone gets stabbed, nobody's going to sue the company which made the knife used in the murder because that's stupid. When a car accident occurs due to the driver's negligence, nobody's going to sue the car manufacturer because it's the driver who's at fault.

Banning hardware does not solve the problem - it merely strips legitimate users of their statutory right for making and using a backup. Nintendo is not harming illegitimate users because illegitimate users don't buy software for the most part. You're not "losing a sale" when said sale would not occur in the first place, no matter how you slice the cake.
 
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The Catboy

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I think it's a bit late for them to have done this since flashcards are pretty much dead now for the DS scene and people are now working on 3DS flashcards.
If they were trying to send a message, the only message I get out of this is, make tons of money on your flashcard in the first couple of years, disband, and let the retailers suffer the lawsuits. Nintendo should be more focused on the current 3DS flashcards in the makes and find away to deal with them before the cards become as widespread and userfriendly like ds flashcards did.
 

Foxi4

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I think it's a bit late for them to have done this since flashcards are pretty much dead now for the DS scene and people are now working on 3DS flashcards.
If they were trying to send a message, the only message I get out of this is, make tons of money on your flashcard in the first couple of years, disband, and let the retailers suffer the lawsuits. Nintendo should be more focused on the current 3DS flashcards in the makes and find away to deal with them before the cards become as widespread and userfriendly like ds flashcards did.

No Catboy, that's just silly - that would require actual work, like, thinking of security updates and future revisions with corrected hardware vulnerabilities... Introducing fear tactics so that flashcarts are a merchandise hotter than crack cocaine and illegal even in Las Vegas so that nobody wants to touch them fearing death penalty is so much better. ;O;
 
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Rydian

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Average price of a brand new game is around £30 here. Hence with every ROM you put on an R4 card, the creators are effectively £30 out of pocket. Sorry, should have worded it better. Bit distracted today.
That's a common lie, don't fall for it.
Piracy: Common Myths
 

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R4's are the DS equivalent of CD/DVD/BR-R's, even less - they're merely adapters for rewritable storage. I find it odd that any court that has any understanding of technology would think that they cause any damage and that they could be made illegal. It's the end user's choice to use them for piracy - the carts themselves are in no way harmful just like blank discs aren't.

It's the same stupid excuse that don't work for torrent-sites either. Even though the product itself CAN be used for legal activities, it's clearly aimed at pirating. If they want to get away with the homebrew etc. approach, they have to include AP in the flashcards. But they won't as we all know they're mainly made for pirating. And facilitating law-breaking like this is considered illegal in more and more countries.

And yeah, it's not much money - I think Nintendo etc just want to make examples of this - scaring re-sellers away from future cards by going after them instead of the manufacturers.

Oh, and BTW - I'm not anti-flashcards/-mods. But I wish the 3DS and WiiU will stay free from them until they (hopefully) become success-stories for Nintendo... :wink:
 

Rydian

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It's the same stupid excuse that don't work for torrent-sites either. Even though the product itself CAN be used for legal activities, it's clearly aimed at pirating.
Nnnnno. Torrent sites don't get hit for dealing in torrents themselves (which are entirely legal and even used but Linux distro sites and popular games like WoW to distribute their update files), torrent sites get hit for the content itself being shared, not the tech being distributed.

They're not being hit for distributing torrent clients and the protocol, they're hit for copyright infringement.
 
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Qtis

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Average price of a brand new game is around £30 here. Hence with every ROM you put on an R4 card, the creators are effectively £30 out of pocket. Sorry, should have worded it better. Bit distracted today.
Not to go on what Rydian said, but you have to note that selling games for the RRP is a lot more than a few years after that. Sure you can find launch games for the RRP even now, but games can go for dirt cheap too. For example, I bought a 360 a few months ago. I've currently got a game collection of 30-40 games and I've paid only about 250 EUR for them (guestimate, as most games weren't even 10 EUR, and the total includes shipping). This also includes major titles like Halo, Gears of War, etc. Sure I could have modded the console for a few € and pirated all the games (no profit for anyone in terms of game sales), but I'm quite satisfied now. I didn't pay anywhere near £30 per game, which would equal to around £1000 (360 games are £40+ I guess at launch?).

As for the news itself, it's kinda moot. If someone didn't know yet, this could be just as well compared to selling weed in the middle of New York in a small shop. Do people do it? No. Why? Because it's just plain stupid. When the selling of flashcarts (R4s in the media as stated before) was made illegal, the shops should have closed down, well at least the storefronts.
 

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That's a common lie, don't fall for it.
Piracy: Common Myths


I'd hardly say they're 'completely unaffected' by people pirating a game. As a result of that game being downloaded, they did not make a sale, thus did not earn the £30 or so they may well have gotten had piracy been impossible. Case and point, right now as far as I'm aware it's impossible to effectively pirate 3DS games. I therefore buy myself a new one every few weeks when I have the cash to spare. If it becomes possible to download them, I may well cease to pay out every few weeks, ergo any money I would usually have spent on those games has been lost.
 

Foxi4

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It's the same stupid excuse that don't work for torrent-sites either. Even though the product itself CAN be used for legal activities, it's clearly aimed at pirating. If they want to get away with the homebrew etc. approach, they have to include AP in the flashcards. But they won't as we all know they're mainly made for pirating. And facilitating law-breaking like this is considered illegal in more and more countries.

And yeah, it's not much money - I think Nintendo etc just want to make examples of this - scaring re-sellers away from future cards by going after them instead of the manufacturers.

Oh, and BTW - I'm not anti-flashcards/-mods. But I wish the 3DS and WiiU will stay free from them until they (hopefully) become success-stories for Nintendo... :wink:

AP measures on flashcarts is there to enable launching backups which is what the carts are for. By your logic, selling disc burners is facilitating law-breaking and should be considered a crime because a burner can be used to make a backup copy. Additionally selling spoons should be made illegal because it facilitates potential murder by spoon. Don't be ridiculous.

It's the end user who chooses to commit a crime/felony, the flashcart itself doesn't whisper into the user's ear and tells him to pirate ROM's. If you want to chase someone for a given crime, chase the perpetrator.
 
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Qtis

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Foxi4

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Indeed, many legal software companies work with BitTorrent technology. Even companies very much entwined with the music business. Even in the US, where copyright law is more strict than many other places. The best example would be Spotify, which is basically a BitTorrent client dedicated to streaming audio.

TCP/IP should totally be made illegal - the Internet is just full of infringing content. Let's close the lid on it and completely disregard potential legal uses of the protocol because a large portion of its users use it for illegal activities.

After all, it's the Internet's fault that people download illegal content, not the user's who deliberately and consciously choose to download it.

Because logic.
 

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I'd hardly say they're 'completely unaffected' by people pirating a game. As a result of that game being downloaded, they did not make a sale, thus did not earn the £30 or so they may well have gotten had piracy been impossible. Case and point, right now as far as I'm aware it's impossible to effectively pirate 3DS games. I therefore buy myself a new one every few weeks when I have the cash to spare. If it becomes possible to download them, I may well cease to pay out every few weeks, ergo any money I would usually have spent on those games has been lost.
A lack of getting something is not a loss, though.

Somebody considered giving me $10 but decides against it. BRB suing them for making me lose $10.
Some chick gives another guy a blowjob instead of me? BRB suing for "lost blowjob".
 
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FAST6191

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Average price of a brand new game is around £30 here. Hence with every ROM you put on an R4 card, the creators are effectively £30 out of pocket. Sorry, should have worded it better. Bit distracted today.

I see you are a practicer of copyright math


The problems with your logic are
Not everything is a lost sale ("I would not have purchased it anyway" and such like)
The whole £30 does not end up in the pocket of the dev/publisher
Game prices decrease with time

The "it is only a copy -- you are not down stock or anything" is possible to make.

It cuts the other way as well
More people online is typically a good thing (want a good online community and all that)
Buzz around your game is something most try very hard to cultivate such a thing.
 

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The question is whether the companies who've lost have any available cash to pay up (unlikely - I'd guess it's sequestered away) or if it's just to force bankruptcy. In which case they'll probably just change names and spring up again doing a similar but tactfully rebranded thing...

Yeah, I'd be shocked if any of the companies actually wound up getting a dime from this suit. And on the off hand chance they do manage to recover any funds, they'll just get taken by the lawyers anyway. The lawyers get paid first, always.
 

Ericthegreat

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This is fucked up, unless they were selling roms there was no way to prove they were used for piracy, all nintendo did was hurt a simple reseller, and not the source at all. I'm sure the carts are still sold on the street nintendo prob just targeted them cause they prob had a shop....
 

FAST6191

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This is fucked up, unless they were selling roms there was no way to prove they were used for piracy, all nintendo did was hurt a simple reseller, and not the source at all. I'm sure the carts are still sold on the street nintendo prob just targeted them cause they prob had a shop....

Depends. Stopping things is impossible and everybody knows it -- for one it is not like any of the flash cart makers fabricate their own ICs after all. To say nothing of customs (both in person and in mail) not caring quite so much.

However if you can make it as hard as possible for the average person to get one then it works in your favour and is probably what you want to do anyway. Something that they can purchase in person and with case definitely appeals to said average person as well.

As for the ROM stuff they already argued for and got the relevant court ruling that allows them to clamp down on such things.
 

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