New Zealand bans military-style semi-automatic weapons and assault rifles

Discussion in 'World News, Current Events & Politics' started by WiiUBricker, Mar 21, 2019.

  1. Hanafuda

    Hanafuda GBAtemp Addict

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    Your opinion.

    As for the 'take the guns first' thing ... isn't that what these "Red Flag" laws getting passed in blue states now do? Someone files a petition (similar to a DVP order petition), then they go get the guns from the person, and then they can have a hearing. They don't even get put on notice the order's been issued first. A guy in Baltimore got shot dead by police coming to take his guns away, because he answered his front door with a gun in his hand when unknown persons were banging on it at 5am.
     
    Last edited by Hanafuda, Apr 2, 2019
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  2. Xzi

    Xzi Virtual Bartman

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    How is that my opinion when I just showed you video evidence of Trump's massive ignorance on the topic of guns? It's not like you can pretend this is the only topic where that's been the case, either. He thought ID was required to buy groceries, FFS. Democrats could run 20-somethings with more actual life experience than DJT.

    The first one to come up when I Googled it was the Colorado law, and that one at least requires a court to determine that the individual poses a significant risk to themselves or others.

    https://kdvr.com/2019/04/01/colorad...ag-gun-bill-sends-it-to-gov-jared-polis-desk/

    Not sure about any other states, but the wording is likely similar.

    That is tragic, but certainly not the first time we've seen mistakes coming from the Baltimore police department. The more guns off the street there the better, but it is a very tall order.
     
    Last edited by Xzi, Apr 2, 2019
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  3. Subtle Demise

    Subtle Demise h

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    1.2 Million registered guns and only 37 have been turned in. One wonders how many more illegal unregistered weapons there are. I wish I could find the drawing someone did of a person seeing a mass shooting on TV and the speech bubble says "Gee, I sure wish I was less capable of defending myself!" Describes this situation perfectly.

    Fun fact: in the US, statistically you are more likely to be killed by a cop than die in a mass shooting or terrorist attack. Now for the average citizen, it is already pretty rare for a police encounter to ever become violent (it still happens more than it should, but that's a topic for its own thread). Hopefully that gives some perspective to this debate.

    I also think it's kind of convenient that the legislation was already drawn up and ready to pass just mere days after the incident occured. It took longer than that for the US Congress to pass the Patriot Act, and that was drafted way back in 1996.

    The fact is, having armed citizens and them forming state militias is a deterrent to tyranny. The citizens should be as well armed as the government, even the Supreme Court said that once. Before anyone says it would be a losing battle, 20 years in Iraq and Afghanistan and the Vietnam war prove that would not necessarily be the case.
     
  4. Xzi

    Xzi Virtual Bartman

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    Hard to know. Remember, this isn't a blanket ban on guns, only on "military-style" ARs/semi-autos. I'm guessing the list of impacted weapon models is actually fairly short.

    Possibly. Nobody ever mentions the fact that militias and citizens with guns might end up in support of an authoritarian government. And it is a distinct possibility.
     
  5. Subtle Demise

    Subtle Demise h

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    Ok, yes, I forgot the fact that it only applies to a specific style of firearm, so maybe that's all there was to begin with. It's hard to say either way.

    Yes, an authoritarian regime could try to overthrow the USA some day, but that is less likely than a rebel group of freedom fighters. I haven't heard or seen anything about a communist uprising like what happened in Russia or Cuba. Plus, think about how many right-wing gun owners there are that absolutely would never allow that to happen. If you're worried about the skinheads/neo-nazis/whatever-they-call-themselves: 1) That's already a pretty niche group of people, so they simply wouldn't have the manpower to do anything remotely noteworthy 2) literally anyone with common sense would gladly take up arms and help the military wipe those guys out. They really wouldn't stand a chance here. Besides those two groups, the only real push for absolute authoritarianism I could see would be from our own government under the guise of some kind of "state of emergency" which is the most likely scenario considering how many times we've been under martial law throughout our history.
     
  6. Xzi

    Xzi Virtual Bartman

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    I'm not worried about it, just pointing out the fact that an authoritarian government would be in support of these types of groups, and they'd likely support that authoritarian government in return. At that point, the alliance would be anything but niche.

    That said, I wouldn't be quick to count out modern white supremacy as a threat to this country, either. The director of the FBI certainly isn't:

    https://thehill.com/homenews/437384-fbi-head-white-supremacy-a-persistent-pervasive-threat
     
  7. bodefuceta

    bodefuceta GBAtemp Regular

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  8. Xzi

    Xzi Virtual Bartman

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    This is why nobody should use memes in actual discussion. The logic here is incredibly lacking. The first wolf went to jail/got the death penalty, and any subsequent wolves approaching the sheep will be far more likely to be pulled over by wolf law enforcement, have their teeth removed, and then be sent to jail.

    Also a sheep's teeth were never going to do anything against wolves anyway. Yet another reason it's a stupid metaphor.

    The lesson: we don't make laws so that criminals will follow them. We make laws so that criminals will be punished when they're caught not following them.
     
    Last edited by Xzi, Apr 4, 2019
  9. bodefuceta

    bodefuceta GBAtemp Regular

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    I won't underestimate your intelligence by assuming this isn't bait.
     
  10. Xzi

    Xzi Virtual Bartman

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    Not bait at all, just pointing out the facts. Although I should also note the entire premise of the meme is based on a lie as well. The only time I ever hear anyone suggesting a blanket gun ban is when it's a conservative using it in a sad attempt to mock liberals for something they don't even support. There was also the time Trump suggested taking away guns without due process, but that's about it.
     
    Last edited by Xzi, Apr 4, 2019
  11. azoreseuropa

    azoreseuropa GBAtemp Guru

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    I don't supported guns of any kinds but it will not resolve the problem. There are guns anywhere under black market. That's the problem. It is going to be killing and terrorists anywhere because of black market still exists.
     
  12. Hanafuda

    Hanafuda GBAtemp Addict

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    Well, murder's already illegal last time I checked. As is attempted murder. And malicious wounding. And all manner of public safety laws in all jurisdictions criminalizing the discharging of a firearm, even if only negligent and not intentional, within city limits, within a certain distance of a dwelling, etc. Not to mention all the 'gun free' zones, and most states having laws that add 5 years onto a criminal's sentence if they used a firearm when committing their crimes (even if they didn't shoot anyone).

    So what's the rationale behind punishing people just for possessing firearms, when the Constitution guarantees that as a right? Why make those people into criminals, if they haven't committed any true criminal offense?
     
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  13. chrisrlink

    chrisrlink Intel Pentium III Hamster inside

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    NZ has their shit backwards thenwhat am i suppose to do then low blow a gunman and still get arrested for assault?
     
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  14. Xzi

    Xzi Virtual Bartman

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    It's not about possession, but intent. There aren't any good reasons I can think up as to why a person would need to carry an assault rifle around in plain view of the public. A handgun is far more reasonable, and also a different discussion.
     
  15. Quetzal

    Quetzal Newbie

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    Ok, for the uneducated: There are very few guns present in public here in NZ, full stop. I have never seen a pistol or assault rifle in public. About 1 in 200 people own a gun. Mostly hunters and farmers, for genuine purposes. I don't know anyone who owns a gun for personal protection. The majority of gun related deaths in NZ would be gang related, who illegally own the guns. The public is almost never assaulted. So, to your point, there are hardly an 'gunman' shooting people. What happened on March 15 was that one lone wolf, who legally purchased assault rifles, and then committed the atrocity. It's a simple argument: he would not have been able to get his hands on the assault rifle, and murdered so many people, if he couldn't walk in to a store and buy one. Guns are not being banned, but high powered guns are.

    It was a backwards step allowing them to be purchased in the first place. And a forwards step in trying to eliminate them from being in NZ.

    Our police don't carry guns unless in exceptional circumstances. Has the country turned upside down? No.

    BTW, the police we on site 6 minutes after the first shot fired, and the man was arrested after 26 minutes, on the other side of town. Not bad for a country who has their 'shit backwards'.
     
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  16. Snugglevixen

    Snugglevixen Princess of Cuddles

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    On your lap.
    The fact that there aren't guns everywhere is one of the few things I like about New Zealand.
     
  17. Hanafuda

    Hanafuda GBAtemp Addict

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    You won't find me defending the 'open carry' idiots who go walking into Panera or Target with a rifle slung over their backs. That kind of intentional provocation is a breach of the peace. But my question was why ban possession/ownership and legal use (target shooting, varmint/pest control, home defense), and you say it's not about possession. It's a ban that criminalizes possession of property that was previously perfectly legal, so I don't understand your response. Sorry if I missed something in an earlier exchange.

    Anyway it's New Zealand, so it's New Zealanders' business. I don't know the context or history of civilian firearm ownership in that country, or what protections their Constitution may guarantee against rule by executive fiat. Seems like none.


    Just for the sake of truthful information being available here - an AR-15 rifle in its standard 5.56mm caliber is not a high-powered gun. It is effective for military use because the small, light and high-speed projectile it shoots tends to tumble and fragment on impact, resulting in wounds that are more certain to incapacitate. That means for every person who gets shot, more personnel must take themselves from the fight to assist in transporting the wounded.

    Compared to the 30.06 rifles used by the Americans in WWII, the 7.62x51 caliber they went to in the 50's before transitioning to the M16, the 7mm rifles used by the Germans, the .303 Enfields used by the Brits, the 7.62x54 Mosins used by the Russians, and any rifle currently and commonly used to hunt anything the size of a deer or larger, the AR-15 5.56mm is a wimp rifle. It is suitable for varmint control (prairie dogs and groundhogs, for example, which endanger cattle due to their burrows, and coyotes which have become a danger to people's pets on the East Coast where I live) and sport shooting. It is also a very good home defense weapon, since it 1) definitely does stop a human attacker very effectively, but 2) the small, light bullets it shoots don't tend to overpenetrate as much as typical handgun bullets or shotgun buckshot, meaning there is less risk to others in the home or even neighbors.
     
    Last edited by Hanafuda, Apr 5, 2019
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  18. Xzi

    Xzi Virtual Bartman

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    I was referring to military and assault-style weapons in reference to the NZ ban. I own a couple guns myself, but I still don't see a reason why civilians in the US need access to those types of weapons. Not that a ban on them would fix much in the US at this point, given the number of them already in circulation.

    All I really want are common-sense reforms like universal background checks, and a means (involving due process) by which to take weapons away from clearly unstable individuals. The latter we now have in Colorado, would be nice if other states implemented something similar.
     
    Last edited by Xzi, Apr 5, 2019
  19. Hanafuda

    Hanafuda GBAtemp Addict

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    Indeed. The AR-15 is the best selling centerfire rifle type in the US for many years now. It's a darned practical firearm. Also see my post above, however, about its 'power' relative to other rifles. A Springfield M1A for example (civilian, semi-auto version of the M14) in .308 is a real battle rifle, a true devastation machine. (And unlike the AR-15, it's a suitable and humane deer rifle.) And yet AFAIK it doesn't fall into the 'assault weapon' definition used in most AWB legislation, because it doesn't 'look' evil.
     
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