New Here. Wanna talk about Games' Stories and Characters

[Gremelia]

Hey I'm new here and have been looking for some people to talk about video games, their stories, characters and the like with others.

I've recently been slowly getting into Fire Emblem and had the unfortunate opportunity of playing Fates. It left such a bad taste in my mouth so I want to hear others' opinions or gripes with the game to see if I'm not the only one who had such a poor experience with it

 

[FAST6191]

Have yet to play fates but I am still at something of a loss how Fire Emblem got to the position it did.

For the most part it was a niche series (reasonably high up in the known to translators/known to people that watch Japanese games -- http://www.romhacking.net/?page=translations&languageid=12&perpage=20&title=fire emblem&order=Date attesting somewhat there), Smash Brothers saw a few cameos and then we got some games officially translated a few years after that. I tried a few of those and found the mechanics acceptable as far as turn based strategy goes but nothing to write home about, give or take permadeath not being that common or at best an extra mode/"hardcore mode" in anything vaguely mainstream at that point (roguelike elements or straight roguelikes would take a few years to hit or before their return). Story wise "like shining force but from Nintendo" similar to how like Phantasy Star was like Final Fantasy but from Sega -- generic is perhaps not the best term but as it has some connotations about low effort, but it fits. Though I would note at no point did it elevate itself above anything I expect from games -- I read endless amounts of trashy fantasy but would never read a quasi synopsis/playthrough for fun.
Later in one of my wanderings of the internet for some hacking tools (there were some decent tools and tutorials made for the GBA efforts that came to my attention) a few years later I find the series basically exploded, probably took out Advance Wars with said explosion, it seemed to gain a fan art/story discussion the likes of which I seldom see for games (while I have yet to care about such a thing it does make for a decent metric to assess the position of a the series from), and has only gotten bigger.

 

[Gremelia]

Have yet to play fates but I am still at something of a loss how Fire Emblem got to the position it did.

I tried a few of those and found the mechanics acceptable as far as turn based strategy goes but nothing to write home about, give or take permadeath not being that common or at best an extra mode/"hardcore mode" in anything vaguely mainstream at that point (roguelike elements or straight roguelikes would take a few years to hit or before their return). Story wise "like shining force but from Nintendo" similar to how like Phantasy Star was like Final Fantasy but from Sega -- generic is perhaps not the best term but as it has some connotations about low effort, but it fits. Though I would note at no point did it elevate itself above anything I expect from games -- I read endless amounts of trashy fantasy but would never read a quasi synopsis/playthrough for fun.

(I uhh... Am still not used to this so sorry if this looks big)

In my opinion I've always played rpgs that let you do whatever you want and free roam, so playing Fire Emblem was a refreshing change; as well my friend likes these strategies chess like games and I found them to be fun as well. Story wise I feel Fire Emblem in my opinion is serviceable enough, like it does JUST enough to keep me invested but for the game I'm talking about Fates, it does not do that. It plays fast and loose with it's story, uses a LOT of anime tropes and cliches, it's world development is trash it has a very good concept done poorly it relies on Awakening to actually appeal to some and relies on overly Sexualized Characters to keep afloat (And there's alot more I wanna say but I feel others have already said it). Like I said, the game leaves a bad taste in my mouth but I've come to the conclusion that the reason Fates maintains that level of popularity with fanart/stories/and the like is BECAUSE of the characters' design. The design of characters are usually not as but still important for making something appealing and the anime style Fire Emblem adopts for it's characters and stories makes for people to remember it while for Fates, as I said it's used more blatantly in making attractive character designs and appearances to keep in your head. Honestly none of the characters in that game matter aside from their looks.

I can't myself speak on the other games and explain fully as to why this is but I get why people would enjoy fire emblem. I can only speak on Awakening and Fates cause they're the only ones I've completed so far but that's my general belief when it comes to FE. It does what it has to do and doesn't go above or beyond.

 

[relauby]

I can't myself speak on the other games and explain fully as to why this is but I get why people would enjoy fire emblem. I can only speak on Awakening and Fates cause they're the only ones I've completed so far but that's my general belief when it comes to FE. It does what it has to do and doesn't go above or beyond.

I'm coming from the same position as you (started with Awakening, hated Fates) and that's kinda how I feel about the few other games in the series I've played. The story is totally fine, but nothing that'll stick with you for very long. Three Houses is kind of the exception to this as it has some interesting characters, but the plot isn't all that exciting (granted, I haven't played all the routes yet).

The weird thing about Fates is they brought in a somewhat well-known manga writer in specifically to do the story, so you think he'd have something decent, but it's just awful. Still, that game does have the twist that your cartoonishly evil dad was secretly replaced by an evil slug-like body snatcher and that's why he's such an asshole, which is such a wonderfully stupid twist it still makes me laugh when I think about it.

Also, as bad as the story in Fates is, the most unforgivable thing that game did is split into separate releases. I can understand making Revelations a paid extra, but there's no reason Conquest and Birthright shouldn't have been in one package.

 

[Scarlet]

I started with Shadow Dragon unlike these FAKE FANS >:C

On Fates though, it's definitely a series low point, but it's not to say it has no redeeming factors. Conquest has some absolutely fantastic maps in it if you can get past the story. That being said, if you just want to play some good Fire Emblem, give Shadow Dragon or the New Mystery fan translation a shot. Or if you have a Switch, Three Houses is so so good.

 

[relauby]

Conquest does have some great maps and I do like the idea of it putting the pressure on and not letting you grind. I played it not long after Birthright though and the re-use of assets (including some of the maps) kind of wore me out. I played Path of Radiance back at the beginning of the year so I'm hoping to play Radiant Dawn when I get the time, but I'll probably do Shadow Dragon after that.

Also, agreed on Three Houses. It's my 2019 GotY so far.

 

[Scarlet]

Conquest does have some great maps and I do like the idea of it putting the pressure on and not letting you grind. I played it not long after Birthright though and the re-use of assets (including some of the maps) kind of wore me out. I played Path of Radiance back at the beginning of the year so I'm hoping to play Radiant Dawn when I get the time, but I'll probably do Shadow Dragon after that.

Also, agreed on Three Houses. It's my 2019 GotY so far.

If you do go for Shadow Dragon, do yourself a favour and play the FE12 fan translation straight after. Tl;Dr they thought it was going to be the final Fire Emblem game, so they went all out to get new and cool ideas in. It's everything I love about Shadow Dragon with so so much more.

Fwiw though, the pressure of not being able to grind is just Fire Emblem lol. It's only modern games that've given the option to make them more accessible.

 

[relauby]

Fwiw though, the pressure of not being able to grind is just Fire Emblem lol. It's only modern games that've given the option to make them more accessible.

That's true, I do remember Path of Radiance not letting me grind. I guess it's just that Revelations is also punishingly difficult on top of not having grinding options.

 

[ClassyDragon]

I heavily anticipated Fates when it released and was very disappointed with it.
I've played most Fire Emblem games, including the Japanese only releases, and some of the aspects that didn't seem to carry into Fates were good worlds, a likable protagonist, good map design, and a passable story.

As a whole, I've always felt like Fates focuses more on it's features that aren't characteristic of other Fire Emblem games. Where it does focus on its traditional strategy-RPG gameplay, I think it mostly holds up. I do think a large portion of the maps focused on bad gimmicks and I always felt like the enemy stat balance was off (without grinding, my units just couldn't take more than one hit without dying), but the skills and weapons were a fun change, even if I prefer traditional weapon durability.

However, the story was not only boring, it was sometimes very hard to read. I've often said the story-writers probably wrote a good bit of the story before deciding on the three-path option because the tap-dancing the story uses for Corrin to justify taking the Nohr route seems very forced since Nohr is just the "evil route" in my eyes. Fighting for Garron just feels like taking the objectively wrong choice. Birthright is definitely the best in story and Revelation wasn't horrible, but the story definitely had more potential and I don't think it was the right one to try to implement a "three choices" concept into.

Characters were overly cliche in so many ways, so much that very few stick out in my mind years later. Corrin follows the trend of being very boring, presumably so the player can relate more to them, but even compared to Robin and Kris, Corrin is verrryyy boring. Most support conversations that happen between two characters that aren't Corrin are fine I guess, but any of Corrin's supports just don't really do much for me.

All this boils down to a game that doesn't really hold any replay value for me. Sure, some of it's maps are pretty good and if you just ignore the story and characters, it's pretty fun to just play. But all of the aspects I mentioned above can be found in better forms in so many other games, so I have little motivation to go back to it.

The art and character designs are pretty good though, I think they look mostly better than Awakening's.

If you're still looking to play some of the older games, you can't go wrong with the GBA games. My personal favorites are the Japanese-exclusive "Thracia 776" and "Genealogy of the Holy War" but it's kind of a commitment to get into those. Still I highly recommend any of these if you're looking for better characters, a better protagonist, passable writing, and good maps.

 

[Gremelia]

I'm coming from the same position as you (started with Awakening, hated Fates) and that's kinda how I feel about the few other games in the series I've played. The story is totally fine, but nothing that'll stick with you for very long. Three Houses is kind of the exception to this as it has some interesting characters, but the plot isn't all that exciting (granted, I haven't played all the routes yet).

The weird thing about Fates is they brought in a somewhat well-known manga writer in specifically to do the story, so you think he'd have something decent, but it's just awful. Still, that game does have the twist that your cartoonishly evil dad was secretly replaced by an evil slug-like body snatcher and that's why he's such an asshole, which is such a wonderfully stupid twist it still makes me laugh when I think about it.

Also, as bad as the story in Fates is, the most unforgivable thing that game did is split into separate releases. I can understand making Revelations a paid extra, but there's no reason Conquest and Birthright shouldn't have been in one package.

Well for me currently I was only able to play Awakening and Fates but I have heard nothing but positivity for Three Houses so for me that and maybe a few other FE Games like Echoes and replaying Shadow Dragon are on my list. And I’m glad you agree cause honestly that’s where I’ll always put FE when it comes to the list of games I enjoy at least until I find one that keeps me in

That being said, I feel like that’s where they went wrong then if that is truly the case. In fact, it’s making me think of the Ratchet and Clank movie where with the game, Game Developers wrote the story and it had more of an impact while with the Movie it felt cheap shallow and absolutely cringeworthy and had actual writers working with it. I see that with Fates if it makes any sense, and that’s what makes it unforgivable for me; when you put something that could be good into what is supposed to be competent hands, only for them to ruin it. Along with that, I feel like something even as stupid as that could have worked if more was put into it than what was given. And as for the separate games I entirely agree with that; Fates tried to be pokemon and failed horribly because it missed the reason pokemon could get away with that. As well it doesn’t give a good name when you have to buy the other parts of the story to “fully understand” then you get told that after everything you did it wasn’t the “True Ending”. Like of course that’s gonna fester resentment for buyers of the game I honestly will never understand what went through the peoples’ head to do that. In my opinion Revelation should be the sole game while Conquest and Birthright being the DLCs that reflect a “What If” Scenario. Such as Dragon Age Origins with “Darkspawn Chronicles”.

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I started with Shadow Dragon unlike these FAKE FANS >:C

On Fates though, it's definitely a series low point, but it's not to say it has no redeeming factors. Conquest has some absolutely fantastic maps in it if you can get past the story. That being said, if you just want to play some good Fire Emblem, give Shadow Dragon or the New Mystery fan translation a shot. Or if you have a Switch, Three Houses is so so good.

Wow okay ouch sorry that I played Awakening then :< ( Though I did play Shadow Dragon first just never finished it, my file got deleted on the emulator and I was stuck on that level where you had to avoid that super OP Dark Mage if I’m remembering correctly…)


Though on Fates I kind of heard that often and it’s really upsetting since Fates had so much potential. And I believe you said that which brings an interesting point cause Gameplay wise I didn’t mind Fates too much, it was just the story characters and fanservice that made it hard to sit through so it’s like seriously weird for me cause on one hand I hate it yet on the other I kind of appreciate the new features it had for combat and items and stuff


Very perplexing. But my hate for the story is probably still stronger.

 

[Scarlet]

Wow okay ouch sorry that I played Awakening then :< ( Though I did play Shadow Dragon first just never finished it, my file got deleted on the emulator and I was stuck on that level where you had to avoid that super OP Dark Mage if I’m remembering correctly…)

The desert map? I know there are two where Gharnef comes in, one where he's invincible and one where there's three of him.

Though on Fates I kind of heard that often and it’s really upsetting since Fates had so much potential. And I believe you said that which brings an interesting point cause Gameplay wise I didn’t mind Fates too much, it was just the story characters and fanservice that made it hard to sit through so it’s like seriously weird for me cause on one hand I hate it yet on the other I kind of appreciate the new features it had for combat and items and stuff

Very perplexing. But my hate for the story is probably still stronger.

With Fates, it really has two things going for it: the music and Conquest's maps. I'd say leave it for now and go play other games. If after that you find yourself out of games you enjoy, come back to Conquest and play the maps as if they're add-on content for a different game and pretend the story doesn't exist lol.

 

[Gremelia]

I heavily anticipated Fates when it released and was very disappointed with it.
I've played most Fire Emblem games, including the Japanese only releases, and some of the aspects that didn't seem to carry into Fates were good worlds, a likable protagonist, good map design, and a passable story.

As a whole, I've always felt like Fates focuses more on it's features that aren't characteristic of other Fire Emblem games. Where it does focus on its traditional strategy-RPG gameplay, I think it mostly holds up. I do think a large portion of the maps focused on bad gimmicks and I always felt like the enemy stat balance was off (without grinding, my units just couldn't take more than one hit without dying), but the skills and weapons were a fun change, even if I prefer traditional weapon durability.

However, the story was not only boring, it was sometimes very hard to read. I've often said the story-writers probably wrote a good bit of the story before deciding on the three-path option because the tap-dancing the story uses for Corrin to justify taking the Nohr route seems very forced since Nohr is just the "evil route" in my eyes. Fighting for Garron just feels like taking the objectively wrong choice. Birthright is definitely the best in story and Revelation wasn't horrible, but the story definitely had more potential and I don't think it was the right one to try to implement a "three choices" concept into.

Characters were overly cliche in so many ways, so much that very few stick out in my mind years later. Corrin follows the trend of being very boring, presumably so the player can relate more to them, but even compared to Robin and Kris, Corrin is verrryyy boring. Most support conversations that happen between two characters that aren't Corrin are fine I guess, but any of Corrin's supports just don't really do much for me.

All this boils down to a game that doesn't really hold any replay value for me. Sure, some of it's maps are pretty good and if you just ignore the story and characters, it's pretty fun to just play. But all of the aspects I mentioned above can be found in better forms in so many other games, so I have little motivation to go back to it.

The art and character designs are pretty good though, I think they look mostly better than Awakening's.

If you're still looking to play some of the older games, you can't go wrong with the GBA games. My personal favorites are the Japanese-exclusive "Thracia 776" and "Genealogy of the Holy War" but it's kind of a commitment to get into those. Still I highly recommend any of these if you're looking for better characters, a better protagonist, passable writing, and good maps.

You know I’ve kind of heard that alot that people expected so much with Fates only to be disappointed and I find that interesting. And I believe that and a whole lot of other things that made FE charming to me didn’t go into it. It’s weird for me cause Awakening set me up to want to play more FE and Fates made me not want to touch an FE Game for a while.

And I gotta agree with that. Since Shadow Dragon and Awakening were my first experience it was weird to be jumped into Fates which just HAD to show off it’s Sauna and Face Touching thing -_- It’s real jarring going from a game with straightforward direction to a game that has to show off every little thing about it.

As well I can kind of see that but Fates did it horribly. As well I didn’t like the heavy handed moralizing with painting everything black and white, such as Nohr as super evil and bad and Hoshido as super good and pure. It grates on the nerves and annoys me that there’s no redeeming qualities in Nohr while no flaws with Hoshido. Like honestly I really didn’t need to be spoon fed morals by a patronizing game that wouldn't even be on my “Okay Games” List

I really cannot agree enough with that point because honestly all the characters were shallow one dimensional and they bordered from annoyance to being completely unlikable to me. I disliked Hana Orochi Kangero Peri Subaki even the Awakening kids who I initially enjoyed I ended up disliking (Which is another interesting point I feel Fates lacks an identity and had to rely heavily on the Awakening aspects and characters to get people to like it too which is just depressing since I feel Fates shouldn’t have any connection to Fates since it wants to be its own world with Kingdoms and the like. As well I noticed this messed up thing where Corrin is never the one to proclaim love but be proclaimed to. Which kind of furthers my emphasis of the dislike cause it just reinforces the EVERYONE loves Corrin thing. (Which on a disgusting note; I noticed the game tried to play off Corrin wanting to hook up with their Siblings as the SIBLINGS being willing to overstep that boundary first and not Corrin. And that’s just effing creepy considering the thought of crossing that boundary is even thought of and the game tries to make Corrin less creepy with that)

And I’ll give you that the art looks nice if a little too polished and refined but all the same I like it.

Lastly, I guess I can consider those I had heard “Genealogy of the Holy War” was a really good one then I’ll consider playing them if I get the chance. After all I love good writing in games like these

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

The desert map? I know there are two where Gharnef comes in, one where he's invincible and one where there's three of him.

With Fates, it really has two things going for it: the music and Conquest's maps. I'd say leave it for now and go play other games. If after that you find yourself out of games you enjoy, come back to Conquest and play the maps as if they're add-on content for a different game and pretend the story doesn't exist lol.

I believe so it was- that was the first time I met the character and not even my super leveled up Marth could take him ;w;

Honestly I can see that. I think once I broaden my Horizons FE-wise or completely forget the game entirely, I'll go back and try Conquest out- heard it was harder and since you keep emphasizing the maps then I guess I'll consider it then