Net Neutrality: what it is, and why you should care

641313984.jpg

UPDATE: It's been voted for repeal. The FCC took Net Neutrality to a vote, and it was 3-2, in favor of repeal. This doesn't mean overnight upheaval, but things will certainly change, for better or worse, in due time.
If you've been on the internet at all the past week, there's a high chance that you've heard of something called "Net Neutrality", and you've also likely heard that there might be huge changes to your usage of the internet entirely. This post serves as a quick information briefing on what Net Neutrality is, what could happen if it's repealed, and the current events going on regarding it, and just general visibility to let the community in general be informed.

What is this Net Neutrality thing?


The basic definition of network neutrality is simple: all internet traffic is considered and treated equally. It was established just a bit under three years ago, in February 2015. It prevented companies like Comcast Xfinity and AT&T U-verse from speeding up, or slowing down certain sites based upon content. If you remember, back in July 2017, mobile provider Verizon admitted to targeting Netflix traffic, and specifically throttling it, negatively affecting customers' use of Netflix. Going back to 2014, there were also issues with Comcast customers, and, that's right, Netflix users, as connections to Netflix were notoriously slow. Netflix then entered a legal deal with Comcast, in order to have Netflix connections be faster than they previously were. The 2014 incident was pre-net neutrality, and shows that before the law was enacted, certain sites like Netflix were indeed slowed, and had to specifically bargain with large telecommunication monopolies like Comcast to get fair speeds out to their customers.

In April 2017, the chairman of the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), Ajit Pai, revealed that he had plans to repeal net neutrality. It's worth noting that Pai was once the Associate General Counsel of Verizon Communications, an incredibly high up position with an ISP, who we've stated before as having throttled websites in the past.

Pai's statements on the matter included saying such things as "[the government] would be able to stop micromanaging the internet" and that the FCC and internet service providers would simply have to be "transparent about their practices so that consumers can buy a service plan that's best for them". Shortly after, Comcast began vocally supporting these statements, claiming that government regulation of the internet has been harming innovation and investments of Comcast. David Cohen, the company's Chief Diversity Officer, said that "customers would be clearly informed on our practices [...] Comcast maintains that it does and will not block, throttle, or discriminate against lawful content".

Within the movement for repealing net neutrality, also comes with power being given to the Federal Trade Commission. The FTC would then have the ability to legally charge internet service providers that were not made clear to customers.

You may notice, that within any of the claims made by Pai or Comcast, that equal traffic was never made the focus, instead putting emphasis on making sure these monopolies must be clear and transparent about what they do, but never laying down any solid rules about what they need to be transparent about or why. And, of course, if the FTC were to go after AT&T, Comcast, Verizon, Time Warner, or other assorted companies for not being transparent, these legal cases would find themselves taking years to make their way to court, allowing for them to have their way with their customers until a definitive legal ruling. Therein lies the first batch of unease and controversy with the repeal.

In short, net neutrality is a fairly new regulation, which allows for equal traffic between all sites while using the internet. The chairman of the FCC and former higher-up of Verizon wants to repeal it, however. This would allow less government interference with ISPs, but would also allow those ISPs to do what they wish, so long as they're "transparent".

Does repealing Net Neutrality have any benefits?

Spoiler alert: not really

From the inception of the internet, and up until 2015, Americans have gone without net neutrality. Ajit Pai claims that should we not have net neutrality anymore, more rural areas would be able to have more companies and providers, and it would allow for more competition and choice for the consumer. However, these smaller companies would also have to fight it out with established services, with years of experience and infrastructure refinements.

As a side note, I've spent thirty minutes researching a potential "pro" argument. I've not found many that seem reasonable. I've listed in the spoiler tag below arguments from other websites and blogs.

Green Garage Blog: While net neutrality allows for freedom of speech, the downside is that almost anything can be posted to the internet. This means that the cruelest or insensitive information imaginable can end up on the internet, and as a result, it can cause a lot of problems from people that otherwise wouldn’t be prone to being under the microscope of criticism. This means that people can post cruel, intimidating, or other harassing messages and often get away with it thanks to free speech legislation. So it can be a very toxic environment for a lot of people to put up with.

Vittana: Reduced income from internet uses limits infrastructure improvements.
There are certain businesses and high-use individuals who consume large amounts of bandwidth every month. If net neutrality was removed, these high-level consumers would be asked to pay more for what they consume. This added income could then be used to upgrade the infrastructure of each internet service provider, making it possible for advanced fiber networks to be installed in many communities.

AEI: But in many instances, fast lanes, zero-rating, and the like benefit customers. In separate research, both former FCC Chief Economist Michael Katz (with Ben Hermalin) and I (with Janice Hauge) showed that fast lanes benefit small content providers in their attempts to compete with established industry leaders. AEI scholar Roslyn Layton has shown that elderly and low-income consumers benefit from zero-rating services.

Basically, the only benefit would be if America's current economy wasn't dominated by monopolistic ISPs. Below is an interview with Ajit Pai, showing his perspective.


Scrapping these rules, Pai told Reason's Nick Gillespie, won't harm consumers or the public interest because there was no reason for them in the first place. The rationales were mere "phantoms that were conjured up by people who wanted the FCC for political reasons to overregulate the internet," Pai told Gillespie. "We were not living in a digital dystopia in the years leading up to 2015."

If left in place, however, the Title II rules could harm the commercial internet, which Pai described as "one of the most incredible free market innovations in history."

"Companies like Google and Facebook and Netflix became household names precisely because we didn't have the government micromanaging how the internet would operate," said Pai, who noted that the Clinton-era decision not to regulate the Internet like a phone utility or a broadcast network was one of the most important factors in the rise of our new economy.

Pai also pushed back against claims that he's a right-wing radical who's "fucking things up."

"[I ascribe to] the very radical, right-wing position that the Clinton administration basically got it right when it came to digital infrastructure."


What happens if/when this gets repealed, and what does this mean for you?


The worst part of this, is that there's no definitive answer of what WILL happen, only what CAN happen. What has people concerned, though, is the potential things that larger ISPs can do with this new power, should net neutrality be repealed. Internet service providers could slow access to specific sites, and speed up others, in theory, others specifically being sites who pay ISPs for faster access, and those partnered or in contracts with ISPs. Websites like Google, Amazon, Reddit, Etsy, Netflix, and many more have all broadcast their support of net neutrality, stating that without these rules in place thanks to net neutrality, internet providers would become gatekeepers to the internet, restricting what customers can see. Without definitive government restrictions, these companies could be free to split access to the internet into packages, like cable TV, indeed making true on the intention of lowering the cost of internet access, but also making it more difficult and expensive to see all of the internet, as you can right now.

Likely, what will happen, though everything is up in the air, is that certain ISPs will utilize what's called "fast lanes" and "zero rating". Fast lanes are sort of like what we talked about at the start, with Netflix and Comcast. Currently, these fast lanes and zero rating are used with mobile phone data. AT&T customers can watch DirecTV (owned by AT&T) via their mobile data, without it counting towards their monthly cap. These rules could be applied to home internet as well; if you're a Comcast user, and you want to watch Hulu (owned by NBC-Universal-Comcast), maybe your connection to Hulu will be lightning fast, thanks to these theoretical fast lanes, and they won't go towards your Comcast monthly 1 Terabyte home cap. But what if you want to watch Netflix? Either Netflix will have much lower picture quality, or take a longer time to connect to. And if Netflix pays a fee, or gets into a contract once again with Comcast, then that potentially means that Netflix's increased costs move down to the consumer, who also now has to pay more for a service as well.

What can we do?


The only thing left to do is let your voice be heard. Social media has exploded without people decrying the impending repeal of net neutrality, and the negatives that it would entail, to the point of where the majority of Reddit has been plastered with net neutrality posts.

zZOxMA2.png

The FCC will take the repeal to a vote on December 14, 2017. It is highly predicted that the repeal will pass, and net neutrality will come to an end. Millions have taken to the site "battleforthenet" and "callmycongress" to contact their local representatives and congressmen in order to show that American citizens don't want net neutrality destroyed.

You can learn more at the links below. Hopefully this is helpful in describing what net neutrality is, and why it shouldn't be taken away.

:arrow:Techcrunch: These are the arguments against net neutrality and why they're wrong

:arrow: Extra Credits: What a closed internet means

:arrow:Phillip DeFranco: The Internet is under attack

:arrow:Save the internet: What you need to know


:arrow:Ars Technica: RIP net neutrality
 

TotalInsanity4

GBAtemp Supreme Overlord
Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
10,806
Trophies
0
Location
Under a rock
XP
9,803
Country
United States
I'm hoping NK's government gets nuked first, by their own hand.
China would find a way to blame the US. I do not EVER wish that the tension of a nuclear cold war ever happen within the current generation, but we're rapidly heading there with every day that passes

In other news, various intelligence agencies have said that they've seen stuff consistent with biological weapons experimentation going on in NK currently, so that's exciting
 

the_randomizer

The Temp's official fox whisperer
Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2011
Messages
31,284
Trophies
2
Age
37
Location
Dr. Wahwee's castle
XP
18,941
Country
United States
China would find a way to blame the US. I do not EVER wish that the tension of a nuclear cold war ever happen within the current generation, but we're rapidly heading there with every day that passes

In other news, various intelligence agencies have said that they've seen stuff consistent with biological weapons experimentation going on in NK currently, so that's exciting

All the more reason NK needs to nuke its own government to the depths of hell.
 

TotalInsanity4

GBAtemp Supreme Overlord
Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
10,806
Trophies
0
Location
Under a rock
XP
9,803
Country
United States
so we're mirroring russia now? fuck
No, not quite. In Russia the government mandates that various websites be blocked, whereas under the Restoring Internet Freedom bill, ISPs get to create "slow lanes" for lower-paying customers that throttle/block whatever they want to.

So like Russia, but with more Capitalism(TM)
 

comput3rus3r

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2016
Messages
3,579
Trophies
1
Age
122
XP
4,879
Country
United States
Yes but the proposal I've linked sets down hard rules saying they can't do the stuff they've sued to do in the first place, so why exactly is this a problem? You're focusing on the removal of the title II classification, and are completely ignorant of the rules that it will have replacing it.
without it being tittle II the FCC cannot enforce any rules on the isp's
 

ThisIsDaAccount

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Messages
1,159
Trophies
0
XP
932
Country
United States
  • Like
Reactions: TotalInsanity4
Joined
Nov 24, 2017
Messages
641
Trophies
0
Age
81
XP
822
Country
United States
I'm also focusing on the fact that, as per your post, there's absolutely nothing holding ISPs to staying neutral under the "Restoring Internet Freedom" bill. You specifically pointed out that ISPs that choose to make a commitment, such as "Comcast, AT&T, Verizon, Cox, Frontier, etc" have to uphold their pledges, otherwise the "FTC jumps on their asses." And that sounds great on paper, except all that an ISP would have to do to get around that is remove their pledge to uphold neutrality, which Comcast has already done. It's not difficult for an ISP to get around any new regulations imposed by this bill, and that's not surprising, considering, again, Ajit Pai was the lawyer for Verizon under a period of time where they were trying their hardest to skirt regulations to gain money.

Edit: I also should mention that you've been on my ignore list, so I have to manually check to see if there are new messages from you. If you're actually gonna play nice and actually have a civilized conversation, though, I'm game
Why would I care if I'm on your ignore list? You clearly read my posts anyways :D

Care to point out some examples of ISPs being able to go around the restrictions? Because so far you've not presented any that are factual. "But they could just remove their pledge" doesn't actually hold any value when throttling, restricting, and so on access to legal websites, and also those of competitors, as shown in my post breaking everything down demonstrates very clearly that regardless of their pledge they will all be held to the exact same rules. The title II reclassification is not "we're gonna get rid of all the rules and let ISPs regulate themselves," but rather "We're getting rid of the current rules, replacing them with new rules that specifically regulate the actions that broad rulings in the past have not properly regulated".

The problem is this shit.
upload_2017-12-12_15-10-10.png


Every where you go you don't have anyone actually showing you what the FCC is voting to repeal specifically, unless you go to the FCC's website, which is being DDOS'd to hell and back so half the time you can barely access it. EFF isn't giving you the full context, they aren't showing what's a good idea and what's a bad idea. They're telling you "LOOK AT THIS MAN, BE SCARED. HATE THIS MAN." Gizmodo, which mind you is so notorious for this exact shit, is doing the same, and is putting up ridiculous articles trying to make Ajit Pai look bad for telling jokes at a FCC dinner. Vice, Discord, Google, Twitter, and so on are all screeching at the same time yet presenting absolutely zero evidence.

Have you read anything in the proposal yourself? Like, at all? Or have you looked at some third-party site (such as a web-journalist's piece on it) that told you "BE AFRAID, BE VERY, VERY AFRAID?" Ask yourself this right now, "If I haven't read anything from the FCC's proposal, and are instead believing everything people tell me, why do I get involved?"

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

At best it'll just not change, but I don't think it'll get better.

No change is our best hope.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/4585

There's a bill in Congress that, if passed, would stop this mess. Hopefully it passes.
Hopefully it crashes and burns so that the FCC can turn the industry on it's head and end up saving it.
 

Attachments

  • upload_2017-12-12_15-9-43.png
    upload_2017-12-12_15-9-43.png
    1.8 KB · Views: 131
  • Like
Reactions: DarthDub

the_randomizer

The Temp's official fox whisperer
Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2011
Messages
31,284
Trophies
2
Age
37
Location
Dr. Wahwee's castle
XP
18,941
Country
United States
Why would I care if I'm on your ignore list? You clearly read my posts anyways :D

Care to point out some examples of ISPs being able to go around the restrictions? Because so far you've not presented any that are factual. "But they could just remove their pledge" doesn't actually hold any value when throttling, restricting, and so on access to legal websites, and also those of competitors, as shown in my post breaking everything down demonstrates very clearly that regardless of their pledge they will all be held to the exact same rules. The title II reclassification is not "we're gonna get rid of all the rules and let ISPs regulate themselves," but rather "We're getting rid of the current rules, replacing them with new rules that specifically regulate the actions that broad rulings in the past have not properly regulated".

The problem is this shit.
View attachment 108209

Every where you go you don't have anyone actually showing you what the FCC is voting to repeal specifically, unless you go to the FCC's website, which is being DDOS'd to hell and back so half the time you can barely access it. EFF isn't giving you the full context, they aren't showing what's a good idea and what's a bad idea. They're telling you "LOOK AT THIS MAN, BE SCARED. HATE THIS MAN." Gizmodo, which mind you is so notorious for this exact shit, is doing the same, and is putting up ridiculous articles trying to make Ajit Pai look bad for telling jokes at a FCC dinner. Vice, Discord, Google, Twitter, and so on are all screeching at the same time yet presenting absolutely zero evidence.

Have you read anything in the proposal yourself? Like, at all? Or have you looked at some third-party site (such as a web-journalist's piece on it) that told you "BE AFRAID, BE VERY, VERY AFRAID?" Ask yourself this right now, "If I haven't read anything from the FCC's proposal, and are instead believing everything people tell me, why do I get involved?"

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


Hopefully it crashes and burns so that the FCC can turn the industry on it's head and end up saving it.

ISPs going around restrictions, hmm, let me think. Oh, I know, remember when the FCC tried to sue Comcast because they had restrictive bandwidth caps that customers didn't even know about, but then the FCC lost the case and Comcast still doesn't tell people about the caps. Yeah, that. Comcast/Xfinity can fuck itself.
 
Joined
Nov 24, 2017
Messages
641
Trophies
0
Age
81
XP
822
Country
United States
ISPs going around restrictions, hmm, let me think. Oh, I know, remember when the FCC tried to sue Comcast because they had restrictive bandwidth caps that customers didn't even know about, but then the FCC lost the case and Comcast still doesn't tell people about the caps. Yeah, that. Comcast/Xfinity can fuck itself.
Which because of this, the FCC's proposal includes that they must disclose that exact behavior. So yes, the bill is going to make these things better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DarthDub

ThisIsDaAccount

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Messages
1,159
Trophies
0
XP
932
Country
United States
ISPs going around restrictions, hmm, let me think. Oh, I know, remember when the FCC tried to sue Comcast because they had restrictive bandwidth caps that customers didn't even know about, but then the FCC lost the case and Comcast still doesn't tell people about the caps. Yeah, that. Comcast/Xfinity can fuck itself.
Can confirm, they're the worst

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Which because of this, the FCC's proposal includes that they must disclose that exact behavior. So yes, the bill is going to make these things better.

I'd rather they just stop all together, and I'm sure most consumers agree
 
  • Like
Reactions: TotalInsanity4

ThisIsDaAccount

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Messages
1,159
Trophies
0
XP
932
Country
United States
I'll believe it when I see it.
Even if it happens, they won't stop - they just have to be more clear about the things they fuck us over for.

If they literally made a list on their website called "the official list of bullshit we engage in", they would be "transparent" about it and wouldn't have to change a thing about what they do.
 

the_randomizer

The Temp's official fox whisperer
Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2011
Messages
31,284
Trophies
2
Age
37
Location
Dr. Wahwee's castle
XP
18,941
Country
United States
Even if it happens, they won't stop - they just have to be more clear about the things they fuck us over for.

If they literally made a list on their website called "the official list of bullshit we engage in", they would be "transparent" about it and wouldn't have to change a thing about what they do.

Gee, that's the most reassuring thing I've read *Sigh* son of a bitch this sucks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThisIsDaAccount
Joined
Nov 24, 2017
Messages
641
Trophies
0
Age
81
XP
822
Country
United States
Even if it happens, they won't stop - they just have to be more clear about the things they fuck us over for.

If they literally made a list on their website called "the official list of bullshit we engage in", they would be "transparent" about it and wouldn't have to change a thing about what they do.
Wrong. They have to make that list, and it is restricted to ILLEGAL content. Illegal content only. Again, I made a huge post breaking this stuff down. https://gbatemp.net/threads/net-neu...y-you-should-care.490063/page-24#post-7733668
 
  • Like
Reactions: DarthDub

ThisIsDaAccount

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Messages
1,159
Trophies
0
XP
932
Country
United States
Gee, that's the most reassuring thing I've read *Sigh* son of a bitch this sucks.
There's a bill in Congress to halt the decision, so there's still some hope.

It's also completely possible the FCC will get sued immediately following the decision, and they might have to resolve the lawsuits before implementing the repeal.
 
General chit-chat
Help Users
    SylverReZ @ SylverReZ: Zelda +1