Net Neutrality: what it is, and why you should care

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UPDATE: It's been voted for repeal. The FCC took Net Neutrality to a vote, and it was 3-2, in favor of repeal. This doesn't mean overnight upheaval, but things will certainly change, for better or worse, in due time.
If you've been on the internet at all the past week, there's a high chance that you've heard of something called "Net Neutrality", and you've also likely heard that there might be huge changes to your usage of the internet entirely. This post serves as a quick information briefing on what Net Neutrality is, what could happen if it's repealed, and the current events going on regarding it, and just general visibility to let the community in general be informed.

What is this Net Neutrality thing?


The basic definition of network neutrality is simple: all internet traffic is considered and treated equally. It was established just a bit under three years ago, in February 2015. It prevented companies like Comcast Xfinity and AT&T U-verse from speeding up, or slowing down certain sites based upon content. If you remember, back in July 2017, mobile provider Verizon admitted to targeting Netflix traffic, and specifically throttling it, negatively affecting customers' use of Netflix. Going back to 2014, there were also issues with Comcast customers, and, that's right, Netflix users, as connections to Netflix were notoriously slow. Netflix then entered a legal deal with Comcast, in order to have Netflix connections be faster than they previously were. The 2014 incident was pre-net neutrality, and shows that before the law was enacted, certain sites like Netflix were indeed slowed, and had to specifically bargain with large telecommunication monopolies like Comcast to get fair speeds out to their customers.

In April 2017, the chairman of the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), Ajit Pai, revealed that he had plans to repeal net neutrality. It's worth noting that Pai was once the Associate General Counsel of Verizon Communications, an incredibly high up position with an ISP, who we've stated before as having throttled websites in the past.

Pai's statements on the matter included saying such things as "[the government] would be able to stop micromanaging the internet" and that the FCC and internet service providers would simply have to be "transparent about their practices so that consumers can buy a service plan that's best for them". Shortly after, Comcast began vocally supporting these statements, claiming that government regulation of the internet has been harming innovation and investments of Comcast. David Cohen, the company's Chief Diversity Officer, said that "customers would be clearly informed on our practices [...] Comcast maintains that it does and will not block, throttle, or discriminate against lawful content".

Within the movement for repealing net neutrality, also comes with power being given to the Federal Trade Commission. The FTC would then have the ability to legally charge internet service providers that were not made clear to customers.

You may notice, that within any of the claims made by Pai or Comcast, that equal traffic was never made the focus, instead putting emphasis on making sure these monopolies must be clear and transparent about what they do, but never laying down any solid rules about what they need to be transparent about or why. And, of course, if the FTC were to go after AT&T, Comcast, Verizon, Time Warner, or other assorted companies for not being transparent, these legal cases would find themselves taking years to make their way to court, allowing for them to have their way with their customers until a definitive legal ruling. Therein lies the first batch of unease and controversy with the repeal.

In short, net neutrality is a fairly new regulation, which allows for equal traffic between all sites while using the internet. The chairman of the FCC and former higher-up of Verizon wants to repeal it, however. This would allow less government interference with ISPs, but would also allow those ISPs to do what they wish, so long as they're "transparent".

Does repealing Net Neutrality have any benefits?

Spoiler alert: not really

From the inception of the internet, and up until 2015, Americans have gone without net neutrality. Ajit Pai claims that should we not have net neutrality anymore, more rural areas would be able to have more companies and providers, and it would allow for more competition and choice for the consumer. However, these smaller companies would also have to fight it out with established services, with years of experience and infrastructure refinements.

As a side note, I've spent thirty minutes researching a potential "pro" argument. I've not found many that seem reasonable. I've listed in the spoiler tag below arguments from other websites and blogs.

Green Garage Blog: While net neutrality allows for freedom of speech, the downside is that almost anything can be posted to the internet. This means that the cruelest or insensitive information imaginable can end up on the internet, and as a result, it can cause a lot of problems from people that otherwise wouldn’t be prone to being under the microscope of criticism. This means that people can post cruel, intimidating, or other harassing messages and often get away with it thanks to free speech legislation. So it can be a very toxic environment for a lot of people to put up with.

Vittana: Reduced income from internet uses limits infrastructure improvements.
There are certain businesses and high-use individuals who consume large amounts of bandwidth every month. If net neutrality was removed, these high-level consumers would be asked to pay more for what they consume. This added income could then be used to upgrade the infrastructure of each internet service provider, making it possible for advanced fiber networks to be installed in many communities.

AEI: But in many instances, fast lanes, zero-rating, and the like benefit customers. In separate research, both former FCC Chief Economist Michael Katz (with Ben Hermalin) and I (with Janice Hauge) showed that fast lanes benefit small content providers in their attempts to compete with established industry leaders. AEI scholar Roslyn Layton has shown that elderly and low-income consumers benefit from zero-rating services.

Basically, the only benefit would be if America's current economy wasn't dominated by monopolistic ISPs. Below is an interview with Ajit Pai, showing his perspective.


Scrapping these rules, Pai told Reason's Nick Gillespie, won't harm consumers or the public interest because there was no reason for them in the first place. The rationales were mere "phantoms that were conjured up by people who wanted the FCC for political reasons to overregulate the internet," Pai told Gillespie. "We were not living in a digital dystopia in the years leading up to 2015."

If left in place, however, the Title II rules could harm the commercial internet, which Pai described as "one of the most incredible free market innovations in history."

"Companies like Google and Facebook and Netflix became household names precisely because we didn't have the government micromanaging how the internet would operate," said Pai, who noted that the Clinton-era decision not to regulate the Internet like a phone utility or a broadcast network was one of the most important factors in the rise of our new economy.

Pai also pushed back against claims that he's a right-wing radical who's "fucking things up."

"[I ascribe to] the very radical, right-wing position that the Clinton administration basically got it right when it came to digital infrastructure."


What happens if/when this gets repealed, and what does this mean for you?


The worst part of this, is that there's no definitive answer of what WILL happen, only what CAN happen. What has people concerned, though, is the potential things that larger ISPs can do with this new power, should net neutrality be repealed. Internet service providers could slow access to specific sites, and speed up others, in theory, others specifically being sites who pay ISPs for faster access, and those partnered or in contracts with ISPs. Websites like Google, Amazon, Reddit, Etsy, Netflix, and many more have all broadcast their support of net neutrality, stating that without these rules in place thanks to net neutrality, internet providers would become gatekeepers to the internet, restricting what customers can see. Without definitive government restrictions, these companies could be free to split access to the internet into packages, like cable TV, indeed making true on the intention of lowering the cost of internet access, but also making it more difficult and expensive to see all of the internet, as you can right now.

Likely, what will happen, though everything is up in the air, is that certain ISPs will utilize what's called "fast lanes" and "zero rating". Fast lanes are sort of like what we talked about at the start, with Netflix and Comcast. Currently, these fast lanes and zero rating are used with mobile phone data. AT&T customers can watch DirecTV (owned by AT&T) via their mobile data, without it counting towards their monthly cap. These rules could be applied to home internet as well; if you're a Comcast user, and you want to watch Hulu (owned by NBC-Universal-Comcast), maybe your connection to Hulu will be lightning fast, thanks to these theoretical fast lanes, and they won't go towards your Comcast monthly 1 Terabyte home cap. But what if you want to watch Netflix? Either Netflix will have much lower picture quality, or take a longer time to connect to. And if Netflix pays a fee, or gets into a contract once again with Comcast, then that potentially means that Netflix's increased costs move down to the consumer, who also now has to pay more for a service as well.

What can we do?


The only thing left to do is let your voice be heard. Social media has exploded without people decrying the impending repeal of net neutrality, and the negatives that it would entail, to the point of where the majority of Reddit has been plastered with net neutrality posts.

zZOxMA2.png

The FCC will take the repeal to a vote on December 14, 2017. It is highly predicted that the repeal will pass, and net neutrality will come to an end. Millions have taken to the site "battleforthenet" and "callmycongress" to contact their local representatives and congressmen in order to show that American citizens don't want net neutrality destroyed.

You can learn more at the links below. Hopefully this is helpful in describing what net neutrality is, and why it shouldn't be taken away.

:arrow:Techcrunch: These are the arguments against net neutrality and why they're wrong

:arrow: Extra Credits: What a closed internet means

:arrow:Phillip DeFranco: The Internet is under attack

:arrow:Save the internet: What you need to know


:arrow:Ars Technica: RIP net neutrality
 
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Title II is Net Neutrality, stop trying to play semantics with me. Trusting megacorps that already have a bad track record on holding themselves to "promises" is quite frankly moronic. If they knew by instinct how to be ethical, there would be no regulations to begin with.
"Title II is Net Neutrality"
I don't have a loud enough video of a guy laughing so just imagine someone blowing your ear drums out with laughter.

The Title II Order is not Net Neutrality itself. It's part of the Net Neutrality philosophy. Furthermore, what's pretty fucking moronic is you showing you haven't read my post. I explained that, for example, if Comcast goes back on it's pledge against throttling and so on, it's getting fucked for anti-trust and anti-competitive practices. The FTC and FCC are now both in a position where they can regulate this stuff properly. I even had sources in my post and you still didn't read it! This is getting pathetic.

I am continuing to find it increasingly hard to have an honest debate with you because every single point I make is shrugged off with some stupid rambling about how corporations are out to get you somehow no matter what and thus any regulation would be moot.

So, sit down, shut up, and read my damn post.
https://gbatemp.net/threads/net-neu...y-you-should-care.490063/page-27#post-7733668
 
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Xzi

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The Title II Order is not Net Neutrality itself. It's part of the Net Neutrality philosophy. Furthermore, what's pretty fucking moronic is you showing you haven't read my post. I explained that, for example, if Comcast goes back on it's pledge against throttling and so on, it's getting fucked for anti-trust and anti-competitive practices. The FTC and FCC are now both in a position where they can regulate this stuff properly.
I've said this so many times and you've ignored it each time. Maybe in a larger font it'll get through your head:

VERIZON, COMCAST, AND OTHER LARGE PROVIDERS OWN THE FCC AND FTC IN 2017.

They won't move to harm the very entities they're passing Net Neutrality repeal to benefit in the first place. Occam's razor and all that.
 
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I've said this so many times and you've ignored it each time. Maybe in a larger font it'll get through your head:

VERIZON, COMCAST, AND OTHER LARGE PROVIDERS OWN THE FCC AND FTC IN 2017.

They won't move to harm the very entities they're passing Net Neutrality repeal to benefit in the first place. Occam's razor and all that.
Now I'm no expert on business but I'm PRETTY FUCKING SURE YOU CAN'T OWN THE FCC AS A COMPANY AND USE IT AS PART OF A BUSINESS.
 
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TotalInsanity4

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Looks like the bear's been poked.

No, you can't "own" a government office, but if you're the head of one you can very certainly use your position in your own/your previous interest's favor
 
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You guys have been on repeat for so long now. Oh my.
I've got nothing better to do. Debates are super fun though so I don't consider it time wasted. Besides if I can change someone's mind about all the fear mongering and paranoia campaigning I think that's my good deed for the day.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Looks like the bear's been poked.

No, you can't "own" a government office, but if you're the head of one you can very certainly use it's position in your own favor
Not when there's shittons of people in it who may not agree with that, or numerous lawyers who can totally fuck you up for it, or ways to have you ejected and replaced the moment you place your pockets above your responsibilities.

Nice try champ but arguing the position that the entire government is a corrupt pyramid scheme isn't based in reality.
 

Xzi

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Now I'm no expert on business but I'm PRETTY FUCKING SURE YOU CAN'T OWN THE FCC AS A COMPANY AND USE IT AS PART OF A BUSINESS.
JFC I shouldn't have to spell this out for you: I wasn't being literal. Ajit Pai's (FCC chairman) last job was working for Verizon. What other reason would he have for ignoring massive public outcry against Net Neutrality repeal? The FTC chairman seems more on the level, but he was still appointed by Trump and I doubt he'll defy Trump/Pai's will.
 
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JFC I shouldn't have to spell this out for you: I wasn't being literal. Ajit Pai's (FCC chairman) last job was working for Verizon. What other reason would he have for ignoring massive public outcry against Net Neutrality repeal? The FTC chairman seems more on the level, but he was still appointed by Trump and I doubt he'll defy Trump/Pai's will.
See that's exactly what I'm talking about. You're not even trying to be fair in this, you're assuming everything is gonna be a doomsday kind of shit for the internet solely because you dislike people for arbitrary, petty reasons. Congratulations. You're no better than a 16 year old girl.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

"The FCC and FTC are owned by ISPS!"
"well you can't do that"
"WTF I WASN'T BEING LITERALLY U IDIOT!!!!!!!!!! PLUS i mean dont wanna admit since it ruins my stupid point but the FTC seems okay but ehhh they're all bought out U IDIOTT!!!"

Fucking lmao holy shit
 
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Xzi

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See that's exactly what I'm talking about. You're not even trying to be fair in this, you're assuming everything is gonna be a doomsday kind of shit for the internet solely because you dislike people for arbitrary, petty reasons. Congratulations. You're no better than a 16 year old girl.
No you moron, I just hate that you're underselling the potential consequences for no good/logical reason. People should be less worried and more proactive in reaching out to their reps, donating to the EFF, protesting, doing whatever the fuck you can. Not continuing to be complacent, and from my perspective, you're selling complacency.

You'll probably rag on me for quoting RatM here, but: "settle for nothing now, and we'll settle for nothing later."

"The FCC and FTC are owned by ISPS!"
"well you can't do that"
"WTF I WASN'T BEING LITERALLY U IDIOT!!!!!!!!!! PLUS i mean dont wanna admit since it ruins my stupid point but the FTC seems okay but ehhh they're all bought out U IDIOTT!!!"

Fucking lmao holy shit
And I'm the one being childish here. :rolleyes::grog:
 
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So since everyone is focusing on Ajit Pai, why is no one focusing on Joseph Simons? You know, the antitrust attorney? It seems to me that these two were picked according to their ability and history in law regarding the internet rather than where they came from. I don't know about you but I'd hire people based on their ability and nothing else because nothing else actually matters besides maybe criminal history, which Ajit Pai and Simons both seem to have a clean one of.

I thought Trump appointing someone means they're corporate lapdogs yet people only focus on the head of the FCC. Wonder why that is? Really makes you think!

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

No you moron, I just hate that you're underselling the potential consequences for no good/logical reason. People should be less worried and more proactive in reaching out to their reps, donating to the EFF, protesting, doing whatever the fuck you can. Not continuing to be complacent, and from my perspective, you're selling complacency.

You'll probably rag on me for quoting RatM here, but: "settle for nothing now, and we'll settle for nothing later."
People should be less worried and quit caring as much until they sit down, read the proposal, and so on. You're literally trying to downplay, or flat out disregard my arguments, because they're not found in outrage, but in reason. Why the fuck do you consider my "complacency" a problem when what I'm arguing is that people should be informed before being outrageous, and that what they're being outrageous over isn't even grounded in reality? For fuck's sake dude, stop trying to be a snarky cunt, and go read the post, and the PDF I linked. You're disregarding everything on the fallacious grounds of "well they could just be lying to you about everything" to which you have no fucking reason to ever believe *anything*.
 
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So since everyone is focusing on Ajit Pai, why is no one focusing on Joseph Simons? You know, the antitrust attorney? It seems to me that these two were picked according to their ability and history in law regarding the internet rather than where they came from. I don't know about you but I'd hire people based on their ability and nothing else because nothing else actually matters besides maybe criminal history, which Ajit Pai and Simons both seem to have a clean one of.

I thought Trump appointing someone means they're corporate lapdogs yet people only focus on the head of the FCC. Wonder why that is? Really makes you think!
Dafuq are you even talking about at this point? Nobody said they were (convicted) criminals, just corporate shills. No doubt they're tax evaders to some extent, but what are business ethics anyway? :huh:

People should be less worried and quit caring as much until they sit down, read the proposal, and so on. You're literally trying to downplay, or flat out disregard my arguments, because they're not found in outrage, but in reason. Why the fuck do you consider my "complacency" a problem when what I'm arguing is that people should be informed before being outrageous, and that what they're being outrageous over isn't even grounded in reality?
The simple version of the proposal is allowing for "fast lanes" and "slow lanes." They'd like you to think "slow lanes" are the same speed you're currently getting on websites and download traffic, etc. When it becomes expedient, however, "slow lanes" will actually be slow, and "fast lanes" will be the only normal ones. Of course, they removed all this info from their website(s), and I already posted that, but keep ignoring shit.
 
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Dafuq are you even talking about at this point? Nobody said they were (convicted) criminals, just corporate shills. No doubt they're tax evaders to some extent, but what are business ethics anyway? :huh:
Pedantic again. Stop that. I know it's hard for you to read but if you plan to debate with someone get your mother or something to read for you since evidently you can't. What I said was that ultimately when hiring someone, nothing else really matters beyond ability and criminal history. If their history is clean, and their work history speaks for their ability, I say it's pretty fair to hire them. Considering a Verizon lawyer would be heavily involved with all sorts of net neutrality lawsuits and analyzing laws, I think someone with Ajit Pai's background would be a perfect pick for the FCC. Sure you have the concerns about conflict of interest which is a fair one to have, but acting like he's some corporate shill trying to kill the internet is just fallacious. Read the PDF and tell me again what he's doing. https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-347927A1.pdf

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Furthermore the fuck are you talking about? You keep bringing up stupid shit out of left field and focusing on stuff that doesn't matter in some weird desperate attempt to deflect arguments that poke holes in your paranoia. The argument "corporations could just be lying to you so never trust them on anything!" is ironic as hell to hear from someone whose signature is lined with various devices from various corporations. They reserve the right to disable and/or straight up brick your devices at any time, yet you evidently seem to trust them *not* to do that. You said it yourself. They don't care about you. They care about your money. Nothing more. So why buy anything like that knowing you're potentially supporting such a practice?

Your response to this thought experiment will be one of three;
1) Disregarding it entirely
2) Try to argue that not ALL corporations are like that (despite saying several pages earlier that it's what corporations do)
3) Accuse me of being a shill while disregarding my point and instead focusing on some random word I used and pretend that was the whole post
 
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Xzi

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Pedantic again. Stop that. I know it's hard for you to read but if you plan to debate with someone get your mother or something to read for you since evidently you can't. What I said was that ultimately when hiring someone, nothing else really matters beyond ability and criminal history. If their history is clean, and their work history speaks for their ability, I say it's pretty fair to hire them. Considering a Verizon lawyer would be heavily involved with all sorts of net neutrality lawsuits and analyzing laws, I think someone with Ajit Pai's background would be a perfect pick for the FCC. Sure you have the concerns about conflict of interest which is a fair one to have, but acting like he's some corporate shill trying to kill the internet is just fallacious. Read the PDF and tell me again what he's doing. https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-347927A1.pdf
Dude, ultimately what this comes down to is you believe Ajit Pai. A guy with one of the most punchable faces ever, the most obvious conflicts of interest, and a guy that nobody else believes. Everybody in the tech world rejects this repeal wholeheartedly. They don't buy Ajit Pai's bullshit and neither should you. He rejected the majority opinion on this issue already.

https://arstechnica.com/information...-false-description-of-internet-inventors-say/

AJIT-PAI-Call-Someone-Who-Cares.jpg

(Ultimate derp face ensues)
 
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Dude, ultimately what this comes down to is you believe Ajit Pai. A guy with one of the most punchable faces ever, the most obvious conflicts of interest, and a guy that nobody else believes. Everybody in the tech world rejects this repeal wholeheartedly. They don't buy Ajit Pai's bullshit and neither should you. He rejected the majority opinion on this issue already.

https://arstechnica.com/information...-false-description-of-internet-inventors-say/
Attacking someone based on their looks is just the ultimate form of scumminess. Unless you're ready to post your face in comparison as if you're better, quit stooping so low. You're absolutely reprehensible as a human being.

The majority opinion, as this thread has proven, is based upon a fear campaign of "if you're not mad like we are, you are not informed," making this whole thing sound like it's a much bigger, much worse issue than it really is. How hard is it to comprehend that this is mostly propaganda? It comes from a radical misunderstanding of what he's planning to do. You ever notice how I'm the one arguing specific paragraphs from the document -- which was not written by Ajit Pai alone, mind you -- and you accuse of me being the only person who isn't outraged about this?

You've owned yourself. Congratulations. You've basically implied that the people who don't trust this guy and are mad at him are the ones who haven't read anything other than propaganda. I mean, it's right, so congrats on you for saying something right for once. Not everyone in the tech world rejects the repeal. I've got a game developer friend who wholly supports it. A musician doing the music for the game also supports it. You know why? Because unlike you, we can fucking read.

The deluded like yourself assume that because a *possibility* is present, it means the possibility is the reality. That's not right. Sure, Ajit Pai *COULD* fuck the internet, just like Trump *COULD* launch a nuclear strike on his own country in some suicide move or some shit. There is no evidence showing that he intends to destroy the internet, and why the hell you think the FCC would propose laws that you say they'd actively ignore and refuse to enforce is beyond me. It doesn't make any sense. If the FCC truly did not give a shit, they wouldn't do anything at all. This proposal would not exist. Someone clearly trying to let corporations do whatever they want would never make a proposal that requires any throttling of legal content result in punishment for the ISP, and that the ISP must state they throttle illegal content or be punished regardless of what they're throttling and how illegal it is.

Seriously, if you were someone who were a shill and bought out, the fuck would you do? Sit there and make shittons of laws, or do nothing? Because I'd sure as hell do nothing, because making laws that people down the line could use to regulate ISPs that misbehave would end up fucking them, and through extension me, instead of the consumer, like you swear they will.

Quit being ridiculous.
 
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welcome to the philippines internet. slow internet, data capping, no unlimited. and you will have so many promo to choose from they will sell you that every kind of promo ex. 1week 3gb = 30usd, and no more netflix and chilling because you will now a limited internet.
 
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welcome to the philippines internet. slow internet, data capping, no unlimited. and you will have so many promo to choose from they will sell you that every kind of promo ex. 1week 3gb = 30usd, and no more netflix and chilling because you will now a limited internet.
No you won't. They could have done that since long before the Title II Order yet never did. How mysterious
YcjVMdc.png
 

Kioku

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welcome to the philippines internet. slow internet, data capping, no unlimited. and you will have so many promo to choose from they will sell you that every kind of promo ex. 1week 3gb = 30usd, and no more netflix and chilling because you will now a limited internet.
That's not how it works.. ~. ~
 

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Damn the last few pages of this thread look like a battleground. . .

IMO this is an important problem but it's not worth getting too heated over. We all have different views on government regulation, the internet and such
 

Xzi

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Attacking someone based on their looks is just the ultimate form of scumminess. Unless you're ready to post your face in comparison as if you're better, quit stooping so low. You're absolutely reprehensible as a human being.
Oh fuck off. Resorting to concern trolling now? And I thought I was the "bleeding heart liberal" in this debate. Make up your goddamn mind.

Damn the last few pages of this thread look like a battleground. . .

IMO this is an important problem but it's not worth getting too heated over. We all have different views on government regulation, the internet and such
We do? We're using the internet now, you'd think we'd all want to keep accessing it as-is. You'd think.
 
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