1. pustal

    pustal Koalafied member.
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    Neil was the writter of the first game, don't know where you are taking that from.

    Many people actually liked the second game. I just recently finished the game, it's not bad. I do have problems with the main characters, but nothing to do with her sexuality. That was established on the first game, in fact.

    Her relationship with her girlfriend is actually very well portrayed, probably the most realistic lesbian young couple portrayed in a game.

    My issues come from Ellie risking and giving away everything for revenge, that's the forced part IMO. Many people complained about the ending of the first game, which I think is in fact very humanely realistic, while the ending of the second game goes in the opposite direction.

    That being said, it isn't trash necessarily. Just because an aspect of it is bad doesn't make it like some people like make it so, for secondary reasons (like the ones in the comment I quote below). The objective proof being that the game sold like crazy, was well regarded to the point of being awarded by the public and recovered from a nasty review bomb made on the first hours the game was released. And even though I personally think it's far from perfect, the truth is most games, including AAA have awful plot flaws, far worse than TLOU2, being written by amateur or sensasionalist writers and catered to undemanding audiences, such as most TV series or movies. So, honestly, if you haven't played it, you should give it a go. TLOU remastered you can find for cheap, for starters.

    I tell you more even, the character that some people scream about everywhere, Abby is one of my favourite in the story. What Ellie loses in her character is fed into Abby. She starts with similar motives, but with a much more well thoughout plan and grows into being a much more humane character. She is a military type, so she is appropriately buff for her job, so I don't get why some people complain about that as well

    [​IMG]

    Sexual orientation isn't politics, just stop being a biggot.
     
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  2. elk1007

    elk1007 GBAtemp Regular
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    Sexuality isn't political; Portrayal of sexuality in media is, however.

    What idea am I rejecting, exactly?
     
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  3. pustal

    pustal Koalafied member.
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    How is it political exactly?

    That Ellie was previously established lesbian years ago, and that her relationships in the game are pretty realistic?
     
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  4. elk1007

    elk1007 GBAtemp Regular
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    When someone portrays a character in media, that personality is not organic; its fabricated by the writer.
    Writers make character choices in order to develop a narrative and connecting themes.

    “If there’s a gun on the wall in act one, scene one, you must fire the gun by act three, scene two. If you fire a gun in act three, scene two, you must see the gun on the wall in act one, scene one.”
    — Anton Chekhov



    Ellie being gay is not strange or shocking. Please read my previous response.

    Ellie was established as gay in Left Behind. No one disputes this.
    Whether her relationships can be called 'realistic' is subjective.
    Don't call someone a bigot because they don't agree with you.
     
    Last edited by elk1007, Dec 7, 2020
  5. pustal

    pustal Koalafied member.
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    Nah, I'm just calling you one for the content of your comments. Were she straight would that be political?

    She has a romantic relationship in the story, that has a point, if you finish the game. They made her having one living person she cared about to have a moral dilemma. Being established gay, is only natural that that person is female too. Shocking! And the romantic character that has a relationship with her is also non-straight, gosh, how forced! /s

    Also have you ever met a woman that is in the military? Or a woman that works out in general? Or have you ever met a lesbian couple for that matter?

    The game isn't political, you are trying to be political, for whatever you think politics are. What games to stop being "political"? Then stop making bigotry your politics.
     
    Last edited by pustal, Dec 7, 2020
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  6. elk1007

    elk1007 GBAtemp Regular
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    Bigotry is a rejection of ideas without justification.
    What idea am I rejecting, exactly?

    Let's be adults about this.

    Yes. Yes. Yes.

    I've never known a military woman to look like Abby. She looks M>F trans imho.
     
    Last edited by elk1007, Dec 7, 2020 - Reason: formatting
  7. pustal

    pustal Koalafied member.
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    I'd like to but you're whining on the internet over the sexuality of a video game character.

    Maybe true, but I honestly don't believe you.
     
    Last edited by pustal, Dec 7, 2020
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  8. ucupetuks

    ucupetuks GBAtemp Regular
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    i must admit tlou2 is the best & biggest game i ever played in 15 years playing game more than thousand games in many different platform & genre

    but i enjoyed most on ellie story/gameplay, after switch to abby like restart the mood, after get emotionaly bond with ellie side

    tlou 1 only half way playing it, cause level design to repetitive like using same asset and carton-ish texture

    tlou 2 in other hand, pretty damn natural level design and truly genius in terms of customize gameplay with seamless animation progression each act
     
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  9. J-Machine

    J-Machine Self proclaimed Pog champion
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    that edgelord is gonna ruin the brand even more than before.
     
  10. Scott_pilgrim

    Scott_pilgrim Nyan-binary
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    Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t tlou have a gay character?
     
  11. ut2k4master

    ut2k4master Lord Tourettes
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    a male character, yes
     
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  12. XrosBlader821

    XrosBlader821 Digimon Tamer
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    TLOU2 has many problems but the portrayal of the character's sexuality ain't it. Originally when I heard that there would be a trans character I rolled my eyes but it actually fit the narrative quite nicely and Lev honestly is one of the best parts of Abby's story imho and the characters never made a big deal out of it like they're trying to beat us over the head about a pro-LGBT message. Which is something a game with a woke agenda would do.

    A Character existing and having non-straight character traits isn't political.
     
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  13. pustal

    pustal Koalafied member.
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    Ellie was the deuteragonist do TLOU 1 and was established gay on that game, albeit in the DLC, that was bundled in the Remastered version.

    Then there is Bill, a secondary character in the beginning the game that helps the main characters.

    Diverse characters aren't exactly new to the series.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    I think Lev fits perfectly. Lev may feel like a boy or may do it just simply because the world he was raised doesn't treat women kindly in her case were she chosen to be a wife of an elder.
     
    Last edited by pustal, Dec 7, 2020
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  14. tomasowa

    tomasowa GBAtemp Regular
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    ... It should be noted that majority vote does not equate to quality; the last several years' worth of political policy has taught anyone that, at the very least. It does, however, equate to sales, so I can agree with the concept of the Golden Goose higher up the chain of command.

    That being said, the Gaming Industry is not happenstance; neither its coding nor manpower is superfluous, but finite resources.

    When I was pumping coins into Galaga, I was not contemplating the gender of the pilot nor which gender lover was waiting at home. I was also not contemplating the sexuality of any the cast of the Biohazard franchise nor whether being heterosexual, homosexual, or pansexual affected their kill efficacy.

    By applying Occam's Razor to this Industry, it is clear that sexuality does not need to play a role in the game but actual investment was put into fleshing this out; as such, it is an intentional statement made for a political climate, whether one wants to ignore it or not.
     
  15. pustal

    pustal Koalafied member.
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    Galaga ain't exactly story driven nor TLOU is an arcade game. Also the point of TLOU is to add tridimensionality and the human perspective to cliché genre. If you want to play a survival horror and don't care about the story or the human aspect, maybe TLOU isn't for you?

    You sound like those people who complained that the problem with turn-based RPGs were being turn based.

    What the hell are you applying Occam's Razor on? You're just spewing concepts. Occam's Razor here would give you that more diverse characters are just a part of an enriched game plot rather than a more complicated secondary intention to drive any ideology. That's what Occam's Razor is: assuming the simplest explanation.
     
    Last edited by pustal, Dec 8, 2020
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  16. tomasowa

    tomasowa GBAtemp Regular
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    Fancy words to say that a game would've functioned just as well without and that character sexuality is a Marketing piece.
    While we're supposedly expletive-friendly, what the hell is Tridimensionality in the Gaming Industry; I'll spare you a comedic analogy.

    ... Did you think you were the final word in this Post and that your opinon is true from sheer amount of replies.

    There are a myriad of ways to add the Human Perspective into anything, from Slice of Life Manga to repeating mundane tasks in a Video Game; the choice to choose Homosexuality is a conscious one that takes money to make and nothing is free; the calculated investment was expected to return as a profit.

    We don't have a problem naming Dating Sim Games as such, even though one could call them Time Management Games, they are marketing their Multiple Endings as a Dating Game. This particular franchise is a Lesbian Storytelling Game, with Fighting thrown in.

    Nothing wrong with that; just be up-front about it.

    Homosexuality isn't a timeless nor universal theme; it's natural but not the norm, i.e. normal.
    The majority of the World are Heterosexual, which dictates what Normality is.

    Disproportionate Representation goes both ways, Under-representation and Over-representation.
    You can Google how many people identify as Homosexual in every Country in the World and the average numbers would lie in the 0.X%, whilst some optimistic numbers place them a hundredfold higher; it's a moot point just how large a minority is when the argument is made about the fact that it is a minority.

    Telling a story that isn't normal and caters to sexual minority is a conscious effort to make a political statement.
    I don't know how to explain it any further, short of giving you the definition of Politics.
     
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  17. pustal

    pustal Koalafied member.
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    When did I ever said that? If you actually read my comments, quite the opposite. It's a story-driven game, the human aspect of it is the whole point of the game. It was previously established the sexuality of the character and there is an important plot point involving a choice regarding a partner that drives the whole plot. Of course it is important.

    I'm not the one that invoked a philosophical principle that don't even understand to sound fancy, lol.

    No, it's a discussion forum, I'm engaged in the discussion. You do apparently want to have the last word on how the game and the entire industry should function based on your own prejudices though, while being upset being called out on it, lol

    It was calculated in the way that is portraying how some people are? You do realize that there are homossexual women and couples IRL, right?

    So you divide storytelling types by the sexuality fo the characters? By your logic Tidus and Yuna in Final Fantasy X makes the fame a Heterossexual Storytelling game and it adds nothing to the story.

    It is timeless, it was even considered normal on ancient Greece and even Rome, people have been gay throughout the history of humanity.

    Also, because it's a representation of a minority it should be obliterated from media? Talk about being radical.

    Not on countries that are open about it.

    Furthermore, you have 4 on-screen characters that are non-heterossexual on both of the games, on a universe of how many characters? Boy, I have more non-straight friends than the entire franchise has of non-straight characters.

    That isn't normal? Boy, I can feel the religious prejudice right there.

    A zombie apocalypse isn't normal. There are a grand total of 0 zombies in the World. They are overrepresented in the game and yet you have no issue with it. You have issue with a representation of people that actually exist and you simply don't like.
     
    Last edited by pustal, Dec 8, 2020
  18. DerpDingus

    DerpDingus Advanced Member
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  19. tomasowa

    tomasowa GBAtemp Regular
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    A lot of this you can answer yourself by looking up English words in the Dictionary, e.g. Normal, Timeless and Sexuality for starters, followed by a look at how Media is divided into Sexuality, from Manga to Smut to Gaming to Porn. Even Social Media has Sexuality-specific hashtags, so I'm at a loss of how to explain the World to you.

    I can say, though, that I don't own the World and these industries weren't following my orders, but I appreciate the compliment.

    It might be time to stop looking at the Greatest Hits playbook for a comeback.
    I'm a bit rusty, but I believe Religion is almost at the end of the option spectrum.
     
  20. RobvonBothmer

    RobvonBothmer Member
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    I didn't give a shit about the somewhat focus on sexuality in the game (btw, I thought Lev was a girl up until I read some comments in here).

    What "grinds my gears" is that they took the story, the emotional bond and, IMO(!), what made the first game good, and totally butchered it.

    Not trying to spoil anything - I was very eager and happy when I played the beginning of part 2. After Team Joel lost I felt pure hatred for Abby.. and then you play her for what feels like forever. This is imo very sadistic and I didnt commit to the game after that at all. I played it through just to have done it.
     
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