Gaming MMORPGs on DS

[SlyGuy]

Games are pushing the DS further and further. Take the upcoming Eragon for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXg3Wf_e0XE&eurl=

WiFi is improving on a daily basis, and developers are getting better at utilizing the potential of the DS. This of course begs the question, when will the DS see a MMORPG? Further, what kind of MMORPG will it be? A cartoony game, a franchise game, or a realistic new franchise. Will it be Nintendo or a 3rd party that puts it out? Will there be a monthly fee to play? And most importantly of all, will it be sucessful?

Of course there is always the opinion that the DS will never see a MMORPG and that's a valid opinion. I found an older thread on the forums and some people were saying that a MORPG like Diablo is much more viable. That would be great too but I'd really like to discuss how a good MMORPG might work on the DS.

Your thoughts?

 

[Hero-Link]

well there are some types that would work well, like Mapple Story-type. (it has been rumored to be in the works for NDS... at least i saw it around here in the forum a topic about it a while back) and diablo / ragnarok online, those would work very well since they mainly use the mouse (or stylus

)

anyway... Eragon seems awesome...

 

[Kyoji]

Given how easy it is to hack online games on the DS, and the inability to patch an MMORPG that may appear on the DS, along with graphical and size constraints, not to mention network speed and CPU speed, as well as limited RAM, I'd say never. We've only got one mmorpg on consoles at this point; its too new of an idea to make it to handhelds just yet, I'm afraid.

 

[KINGOFNOOBS]

There are already 2 MMO's coming for DS. Maple Story and a unannounced 1st Party game.

 

[SlyGuy]

Given how easy it is to hack online games on the DS, and the inability to patch an MMORPG that may appear on the DS, along with graphical and size constraints, not to mention network speed and CPU speed, as well as limited RAM, I'd say never. We've only got one mmorpg on consoles at this point; its too new of an idea to make it to handhelds just yet, I'm afraid.

While you do have some valid points, I remeber playing a certain MMORPG on my PS2 called "Everquest Online Adventures" The game was saved on PS2 memory cards using only 4mb of space. This space allowed for client-side patching. Hacking MMORPGs is usually more difficult than hacking other games because most of the pertinent data is stored server-side. I also think the DS is more than capable of handling these types of graphics: http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/20...a_screen008.jpg even in an online environment.

CPU speed is something that can be worked around (developers have been finding ways to squeeze the most out of hardware for a long time), while the RAM could benefit from the Opera cartridge expansion. The game could limit server size and use instances for the major dungeons to reduce lag. I don't see network speed as a problem since many people are still playing today's PC MMORPGs with a 56k modem. Certainly wireless broadband could be used.

There is also the option of bundling the game with a GBA flashcart if extra space is needed much like what was done with FFXI and the HDD on the PS2.

 

[Kyoji]

I still find it very unlikely. Even if one could work around such technical limitations and still offer a viable gameplay experience, the concept doesnt really float too well. The DS is a portable handheld-this means you can play the games that appear on it anywhere you can take the DS. A strictly online MMORPG doesnt work because wireless internet is not available to everyone, everywhere, and for a low price. Hence the game would have to work like Diablo or TitanQuest, where you have an offline story arch where you can train a character, then take that character online to compete, or cooperate. But then the game has lost its designation of an mmorpg-even a heavily instanced one like GuildWars is not an mmorpg, more an morpg. Another point to consider is Nintendo's use of friend codes-an mmorpg undermines the entire concept behind this, something I'm sure Nintendo is not soon to let happen.

I just dont see this as a viable option right now. If Wireless internet becomes more widely available in the future, it will not be the 802.11b the DS accepts, but WiMax or similiar technology. So, will we see MMORPG's on handhelds? More than likely...but on the DS, or even PSP? Doubt it.

@Kingofnoobs:
Maple Story is hardly an MMORPG. Its more just an online multiplayer game. When I hear MMORPG, I think of WoW or Everquest where you have a massive open overworld. The scale and concept of these games just dont fit the portable platform at this time.

 

[754boy]

Another point to consider is Nintendo's use of friend codes-an mmorpg undermines the entire concept behind this, something I'm sure Nintendo is not soon to let happen.

Friendcodes SUCK!!! Big time!!!! Too tedious. I would take an ingame server browser of an FC anyday. I hope Nintendo fixes this shit.

 

[KINGOFNOOBS]

Well, yes your right. But regardless 2D MMO's can be done. 3D... not so much.

 

[ChaosTheorySD]

The technical definitions of MMORPG aside, I think a Diablo-esque game would be great on the DS. If it worked like Open Battle.net where you can play your characters on and offline, it would be loads of fun. Of course, then you'd have to deal with issue of hacked characters and all that business.

 

[jeffkong]

Another point to consider is Nintendo's use of friend codes-an mmorpg undermines the entire concept behind this, something I'm sure Nintendo is not soon to let happen.

Friendcodes SUCK!!! Big time!!!! Too tedious. I would take an ingame server browser of an FC anyday. I hope Nintendo fixes this shit.

fix? Nintendo does it intentionally to avoid lawsuits and protect kids, friends codes are here to stay like it or not

if there were universal friends codes it would make a world of difference though (hopefully they do that with the Wii)

Also Pokemon D/P allows trading with people outside friends online, it's just you can't communicate freely with them. It's a bit restricted, but if they did something like that a MMORPG could work

 

[Dragonlord]

in general Wifi connections are simply not powerfull enough to handle anything near an MMORPG ( MMO means around 10K players ). if you get an FPS match ( FPS up to 16 players ) decent to play on a wifi con on the DS that's already hilarious so forget about anything MMO related at all. it's simply not feasible and workable.

 

[agrikki]

MMORPGS don't fit on a handheld. Handhelds are meant to be played on the train in the back of the car at a bus stop or whatever.

If you wanted to play a mmorpg on your DS you would have to either sit at home constantly look for an acces point.
Why play a MMORPG on your DS on your couch when there's a computer a few meters away?

 

[Da-Huntha]

MMORPGS don't fit on a handheld. Handhelds are meant to be played on the train in the back of the car at a bus stop or whatever.

If you wanted to play a mmorpg on your DS you would have to either sit at home constantly look for an acces point.
Why play a MMORPG on your DS on your couch when there's a computer a few meters away?

- Computers consume more power.
- Playing on your couch or in the backyard beats being behind a computer.
- You can take it with you everywhere in the house (like the bathroom...), handy for those who are addicted.

 

[Kyoji]

in general Wifi connections are simply not powerfull enough to handle anything near an MMORPG ( MMO means around 10K players ). if you get an FPS match ( FPS up to 16 players ) decent to play on a wifi con on the DS that's already hilarious so forget about anything MMO related at all. it's simply not feasible and workable.

Er..
I play many an mmorpg over my WiFi network in my house o.o

Its not the WiFi thats at fault, its the DS. I'm not sure how many packets a second the DS would be able to send/receive, but I'm thinking not enough to support large scale MMORPG's.

 

[pas]

For the size of the NDSgamecarts not reaching: don't think about this one

as lon as I heard Nintendo would be able to make bigger carts if needed (maybe like they did with the N64, NO not this fuckin Memory Extension... They just made 256 MBit Carts cause of a Zelda Game that needed more space...).

And for that Package thingy... Yes you are right the DS has no much Package to send / recieve... but as long as I know they only locked down the DS to 2 Mbit cause they don't need more. I think they can go up to 11 MBit...

But Anyway. Look at: MP:H, Mariokart Ds,Animal Crossing... They all need lot's of package files or

so why not just optimize the RPG to this minimum of revieve/sendable Packages

.

Greets:

Pas

 

[Kyoji]

For the size of the NDSgamecarts not reaching: don't think about this oneÂ

 as lon as I heard Nintendo would be able to make bigger carts if needed (maybe like they did with the N64, NO not this fuckin Memory Extension... They just made 256 MBit Carts cause of a Zelda Game that needed more space...).

And for that Package thingy... Yes you are right the DS has no much Package to send / recieve... but as long as I know they only locked down the DS to 2 Mbit cause they don't need more. I think they can go up to 11 MBit...

But Anyway. Look at: MP:H, Mariokart Ds,Animal Crossing... They all need lot's of package files orÂ

so why not just optimize the RPG to this minimum of revieve/sendable PackagesÂ

.

Greets:

Pas

Mario Kart, MP:H, what have you may require many packets, but these games can be "controlled". The developers can cap the amount of players in any given room, and therefore have a maximum # of packets they know they can work with. MMORPG's are not controllable..in a game like WoW, for instance, you might have 10-30 packets being sent in a mall town per second, but in a large raid, in the higher hundreds. You cannot set a maxium for true MMORPG's, so the system you develop it on needs to be strong enough to handle a lot...the DS isnt. Same thing goes with polygons/sprites on screen, all of that.

And if you were to "optimize" the MMORPG, it'd have to be heavily instanced, and therefore not an MMORPG, which moots the point entirely.

 

[Dragonlord]

in general Wifi connections are simply not powerfull enough to handle anything near an MMORPG ( MMO means around 10K players ). if you get an FPS match ( FPS up to 16 players ) decent to play on a wifi con on the DS that's already hilarious so forget about anything MMO related at all. it's simply not feasible and workable.

Er..
I play many an mmorpg over my WiFi network in my house o.o

Its not the WiFi thats at fault, its the DS. I'm not sure how many packets a second the DS would be able to send/receive, but I'm thinking not enough to support large scale MMORPG's.

i don't talk about the CLIENT side but the SERVER side. and on a DS somebody has to make the server unless you hack the DS.

 

[falco123]

Too bad MP:H doesn't support matches past 4 players =(

 

[serious_sean]

let's not forget the inability to patch the game, which is something that an MMORPG would have to do

 

[Kyoji]

in general Wifi connections are simply not powerfull enough to handle anything near an MMORPG ( MMO means around 10K players ). if you get an FPS match ( FPS up to 16 players ) decent to play on a wifi con on the DS that's already hilarious so forget about anything MMO related at all. it's simply not feasible and workable.

Er..
I play many an mmorpg over my WiFi network in my house o.o

Its not the WiFi thats at fault, its the DS. I'm not sure how many packets a second the DS would be able to send/receive, but I'm thinking not enough to support large scale MMORPG's.

i don't talk about the CLIENT side but the SERVER side. and on a DS somebody has to make the server unless you hack the DS.

I'm sure Nintendo, or the developer, would be able to produce a server robust enough to handle the needs of its games.