Hacking ktemkin drama

Tapri

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I agree that they didn't handle it great, but I do believe that Ktemkin should not have brought any attention to the bug at least until mariko units were out as SciresM has stated (on 4chan) that he was keeping dejavu private until mariko units were out so he could test aspects of the exploit chain on them. SciresM imo is right to be angry and feel betrayed by this but he should still tried his best, if he didnt, to not let his emotions get in the way of how he handled it.

I agree that he's in the right to be angry and feel betrayed, but his actions don't justify it, it only makes it worse. If it was handled better, internally and quietly, it could have been solved so much better where both sides could have privately discussed the issue, feelings towards what was done, and how to press forward, whereas they publicly shamed K. Really not okay even for what happened.
 

randomt

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I agree that he's in the right to be angry and feel betrayed, but his actions don't justify it, it only makes it worse. If it was handled better, internally and quietly, it could have been solved so much better where both sides could have privately discussed the issue, feelings towards what was done, and how to press forward, whereas they publicly shamed K. Really not okay even for what happened.

If you were robbed of something like that, you probably would've shamed that person publicly as well. I don't understand how she deserves this not to be known publicly, if what is claimed is true.
If the issue was not as big, they probably would have been able to solve it between themselves and just not let the public know. In this case, however, I do see why he doesn't want her to become a martyr and just tells us what the T is.
She has already hinted that she "might have had bad judgement" and that to me shows that she's just doing damage control and trying to save her face.
Qyriad and Aurora are, as stated before, apparently in a relationship with her so I am not surprised at all to see them step down.
Haven't seen anyone besides the two, who are obviously biased, step down, which I think explains a lot about the situation.
 

Tapri

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If you were robbed of something like that, you probably would've shamed that person publicly as well. I don't understand how she deserves this not to be known publicly, if what is claimed is true.
If the issue was not as big, they probably would have been able to solve it between themselves and just not let the public know. In this case, however, I do see why he doesn't want her to become a martyr and just tells us what the T is.
She has already hinted that she "might have had bad judgement" and that to me shows that she's just doing damage control and trying to save her face.
Qyriad and Aurora are, as stated before, apparently in a relationship with her so I am not surprised at all to see them step down.
Haven't seen anyone besides the two, who are obviously biased, step down, which I think explains a lot about the situation.

Maybe i have a different personal view on the world and how i would handle things, but i try to look at both sides of the story, and the way i'm look at it:
  • K, and admitted to, making a poor decision without fully thinking through that it could affect the switch
  • What we don't know is if nvidia had plans to fix it as it was and was waiting for the mariko units before applying the fix. Either way, there's a chance that the mariko units will be fix, but there's a chance it wont be.
  • We don't know when or if Mariko units are going to be released or what exactly it'll be. All we know from data mining is that there was a reference to a T214 model code named "Mariko", nothing more than that
  • There was no money made off of the bug submission
  • Scires, while justifiably angry and feels betrayed, handled the situation in a very childish manor, which makes me lose respect for him as a human being. While even if he is trying to make it so K can't become a martyr, it doesn't justify the end results.
  • Currently, there's been an iPatch for launching F-G as it is, so there's also a chance that future -current- models get patched to other methods at factory level, albeit this "warmboot" or another exploit, without ever seeing mariko released.
  • So while Scires did what he did, there are still a lot of current models that could potentially take use of the exploit (approx. 18mil units i believe?). While it could be a potential future proof exploit for when one current is patched out, which is has with iPatches from factory, there's no telling when it'll be patched out, or if it will.
  • All of this drama, while K did submit it, as brought more light to the bug/exploit than if everything was handled silently. All the current publicity with everyone talking that "person X reported Y bug" makes it more likely to be heard by nintendo/nvidia and investigated more thoroughly. If Scires and parties were making such a big deal about it and handled it quietly, less people would know about the bug and would be far less likely to be heard by everyone else.

    Take a look at youtube for fucks sake, every time something "big" happens, such as news related to exploits and other things that happen, it gets posted there by SpawnWave and a few other people, making it more publicly known.


Human beings are not perfect, the world is not perfect. While yes, K did not talk with Scires about it before submitting it and thus making that mistake, it doesn't mean that it's okay to shame people and take the route that Scires did. Fighting fire with fire only ends in conflict and subjugation between groups. If it was me personally in Scires shoes, i would have talked with K about how i felt about what they did, and at the end cut communications with them, but i wouldn't publicly shame them for making a human error.

So i'll say it again. Scires, while he's allowed to be upset and feel betrayed, handled this very poorly.
 
Last edited by Tapri,

the_randomizer

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Hasn't SciresM claimed he's a lawyer? If it's true (and you believe the stereotype) then of course he wouldn't relate to a human :P

Hmm, not all lawyers are douchebags, take for instance my brother in-law, he's a corporate lawyer, but he's one of the most down to earth people I've ever known. SciresM on the other hand, is a total
megalomaniac and quick to anger :P
 
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Uwabami

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Maybe i have a different personal view on the world and how i would handle things, but i try to look at both sides of the story, and the way i'm look at it:
  • K, and admitted to, making a poor decision without fully thinking through that it could affect the switch
  • What we don't know is if nvidia had plans to fix it as it was and was waiting for the mariko units before applying the fix. Either way, there's a chance that the mariko units will be fix, but there's a chance it wont be.
  • We don't know when or if Mariko units are going to be released or what exactly it'll be. All we know from data mining is that there was a reference to a T214 model code named "Mariko", nothing more than that
  • There was no money made off of the bug submission
  • Scires, while justifiably angry and feels betrayed, handled the situation in a very childish manor, which makes me lose respect for him as a human being. While even if he is trying to make it so K can't become a martyr, it doesn't justify the end results.
  • Currently, there's been an iPatch for launching F-G as it is, so there's also a chance that future -current- models get matched to other methods at factory, albeit this "warmboot" or another exploit, without ever seeing mariko released.
  • So while Scires did what he did, there are still a lot of current models that could potentially take use of the exploit (approx. 18mil units i believe?). While it could be a potential future proof exploit for when one current is patched out, which is has with iPatches from factory, there's no telling when it'll be patched out, or if it will.
  • All of this drama, while K did submit it, as brought more light to the bug/exploit than if everything was handled silently. All the current publicity with everyone talking that "person X reported Y bug" makes it more likely to be heard by nintendo/nvidia and investigated more thoroughly. If Scires and parties were making such a big deal about it and handled it quietly, less people would know about the bug and would be far less likely to be heard by everyone else.

    Take a look at youtube for fucks sake, every time something "big" happens, such as news related to exploits and other things that happen, it gets posted there by SpawnWave and a few other people, making it more publicly known.


Human beings are not perfect, the world is not perfect. While yes, K did not talk with Scires about it before submitting it and thus making that mistake, it doesn't mean that it's okay to shame people and take the route that Scires did. Fighting fire with fire only ends in conflict and subjugation between groups. If it was me personally in Scires shoes, i would have talked with K about how i felt about what they did, and at the end cut communications with them, but i wouldn't publicly shame them for making a human error.

You missed these facts:
  • SciresM had the consent of 8 other team members to ban ktemkin. Qyriad and Aurora Wright were not notified because of their romantic relationship with ktemkin and the obvious bias they would have.
  • While not directly gaining any money from this bug, she used it as an example for a bad implementation in a presentation for which I'm sure she got a consulting fee for. She's good at what she does, so that fee was probably not too shabby.
I do believe her that she didn't mean any harm, but as some people attested too, she probably can't keep secrets well and there might have been other conflicts around her in the team to which they only hinted at.
 

Tapri

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You missed these facts:
  • SciresM had the consent of 8 other team members to ban ktemkin. Qyriad and Aurora Wright were not notified because of their romantic relationship with ktemkin and the obvious bias they would have.
  • While not directly gaining any money from this bug, she used it as an example for a bad implementation in a presentation for which I'm sure she got a consulting fee for. She's good at what she does, so that fee was probably not too shabby.
I do believe her that she didn't mean any harm, but as some people attested too, she probably can't keep secrets well and there might have been other conflicts around her in the team to which they only hinted at.
I don't personally follow the RS team or what everyone does, i normally just poke in very few days, when i saw this i looked into it and what i posted by my general thoughts on it, but i do appreciate that you filled in that for me.

I agree that i don't believe her meant harm by it, but beyond that i can't say.
 

SterneSchreien

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You missed these facts:
  • SciresM had the consent of 8 other team members to ban ktemkin. Qyriad and Aurora Wright were not notified because of their romantic relationship with ktemkin and the obvious bias they would have.
  • While not directly gaining any money from this bug, she used it as an example for a bad implementation in a presentation for which I'm sure she got a consulting fee for. She's good at what she does, so that fee was probably not too shabby.
I do believe her that she didn't mean any harm, but as some people attested too, she probably can't keep secrets well and there might have been other conflicts around her in the team to which they only hinted at.

So if he had the consent of most of the team, why is everyone acting as if Scires is the one who did it alone? Does not look like he kicked him for nothing if it was a team decision.
 
Last edited by SterneSchreien, , Reason: Phrasing
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Didnt kate mention she had suggested ways in which things could be improved and was shot down by mike everytime (I'm paraphrasing but I think that was the gist of it). Now couple that with how he is always quick to show disapproval when someone releases a gui for one of his tools or whatever.. I haven't been using the term control freak for nothing, it just comes across that he doesn't find it easy to loosen his grip on things.
 
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brickmii82

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I call bullshit based on massive amounts of conjecture and assumption. It appears the bug was known and patched, no one knows how anyone would react, and no disclosure has been or will be made as far as financial gain.
 
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Uwabami

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I call bullshit based on massive amounts of conjecture and assumption. It appears the bug was known and patched, no one knows how anyone would react, and no disclosure has been or will be made as far as financial gain.
They didn't consider it a bug. For them it was intended behaviour, but they weren't aware it could be abused and exploited.
 
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brickmii82

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So just to make sure I understand this correctly, Ktempkin disclosed a vulnerability to Google about the Pixel C, thinking it was known already. But the vulnerability was discovered by SciresM, and was not known about. The reason it was not known about was because as far as it’s intended purpose, it was operating within expectations so it wasn’t considered to be a possible vulnerability?
 
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Tapri

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So just to make sure I understand this correctly, Ktempkin disclosed a vulnerability to Google about the Pixel C, thinking it was known already. But the vulnerability was discovered by SciresM, and was not known about. The reason it was not known about was because as far as it’s intended purpose, it was operating within expectations so it wasn’t considered to be a possible vulnerability?
Basically, yeah. The bug is "considered" working as intended by google/nvidia, but is actually exploitable, and can potentially be used and fixed on the switch indirectly.
 

Uwabami

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So just to make sure I understand this correctly, Ktempkin disclosed a vulnerability to Google about the Pixel C, thinking it was known already. But the vulnerability was discovered by SciresM, and was not known about. The reason it was not known about was because as far as it’s intended purpose, it was operating within expectations so it wasn’t considered to be a possible vulnerability?
They don't want to go into details for obvious reasons, but it seems that they didn't consider this behaviour as dangerous/exploitable. If what Kate claims is true, she didn't have ill intentions and thought they already knew it wasn't a smart thing to do.

The thing is: SciresM disagrees. He says he has reason to believe otherwise but won't go into detail.
 

Tapri

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They don't want to go into details for obvious reasons, but it seems that they didn't consider this behaviour as dangerous/exploitable. If what Kate claims is true, she didn't have ill intentions and thought they already knew it wasn't a smart thing to do.

The thing is: SciresM disagrees. He says he has reason to believe otherwise but won't go into detail.

Scires wants to use it as a warmboot exploit for the mariko units, as they've already patched out F-G launching with some ipatches at factory level. But when you take into consideration we don't know much about the mariko units or when they'll be released, this becomes a very large gray area, and then heavily leans on whose actions were more inexcusable.
 

brickmii82

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Why didn’t K talk with her team beforehand (I mean isn’t that typical communication etiquette?) and why did S just blast her outright, and furthermore if money is involved and he’s a lawyer a settlement could be negotiated.

This whole thing screams amateur hour don’t you think? There were a lot of blown chances to hold down your teammates here imo.
 
Last edited by brickmii82,
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