Joe Biden Wins - Becomes 46th president of the United States

[djpannda]

I thought we were hitting the upper limit of how powerful wind, solar, and hydro energy can get.

yes because the 15year old and or saving themselves person, is up to date in bleeding edge power industry

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Tesla is about to break new ground, they are trying to develop plans to provide electricity to whole islands just by solar. in 10 -15 years with real investments we can make that in to states.and power the US for pennies on the dollar

 

[UltraSUPRA]

yes because the 15year old and or saving themselves person, is up to date in bleeding edge power industry

I wonder how much space solar panels take up. Will the next generation still get to plant carrots for fun?

 

[notimp]

I thought we were hitting the upper limit of how powerful wind, solar, and hydro energy can get.

Yes and no.

Wind is pretty much at the upper efficiency limit (per installed unit, so to increase wind, you'd have to increase units), hydro is at capacity more or less. (Only additional builds would be for energy storage, rather then new electric dams for production, because that either conflicts with tourism, or is fully built out already (hydro electric dams were a good form of energy production for decades).)

Solar is not at its upper limit yet. In the beginning of this year I've read, that china planned to increase efficiency by another 90% or so. (They thought it was feasible (hope I got that number right), but I dont know how far they've come by now.)

Which is an issue for commercial investors. You dont want to invest right before the next significant productivity bump, which is why the publics money is 'wanted' to gap investment currently. (Conventional energy companies arent investing big yet. Corp, currently is at the 'increase efficiency' stage.)

 

[AlexMCS]

I wonder how much space solar panels take up. Will the next generation still get to plant carrots for fun?

Not much. Do a quick research about it. Putting them on the entire roof of a house is enough for a whole house needs' and then some.
Not to mention places like deserts that can be adapted to become solar power plants.

 

[notimp]

I wonder how much space solar panels take up. Will the next generation still get to plant carrots for fun?

Yes - issue is not so much space for solar farms, it is storage and transport. Thats the much bigger issue.

First you loose 80% of energy, when you convert it to hydrogen f.e.:
https://newatlas.com/energy/solar-to-hydrogen-cell-sth-pec-efficiency-breakthrough/

and then you loose another 20% during the conversion from hydrogen back to electric energy.

Hydrogen would be 'about equally as good for transport as petrol". Batteries (think li-ion or similar) have a far better efficiency (you only loose about 20% or so) - but are heavy, and loose charge over time. And degrade over time.

 

[djpannda]

I wonder how much space solar panels take up. Will the next generation still get to plant carrots for fun?

.. so I see you don't keep up with it the newest Generation of panels would only take 5-6 to power a house full and
again image, if the US actually cultivate this tech in stead of fighting it tooth and nail , I mean real gets behind developing it, it would only take a couple of years.

 

[UltraSUPRA]

.. so I see you don't keep up with it the newest Generation of panels would only take 5-6 to power a house full and
again image, if the US actually cultivate this tech in stead of fighting it tooth and nail , I mean real gets behind developing it, it would only take a couple of years.

For every house.

 

[Doran754]

Anyway back on topic, Trump has gone from 30/1 yesterday to 10/1 to remain president with betfair today. The next few weeks are going to be fun.

 

[djpannda]

Anyway back on topic, Trump has gone from 30/1 yesterday to 10/1 to remain president with betfair today. The next few weeks are going to be fun.

your right instead of making sense and talk bout things that would benefit the world and make it better.. lets get back suppressing minorities and lawsuits with no substance..,

 

[Doran754]

your right instead of making sense and talk bout things that would benefit the world and make it better.. lets get back suppressing minorities and lawsuits with no substance..,

Geez, do you ever not bring up race. Sorry for talking about the actual title of the topic. Trump gained votes with every race except white men so kindly shut the fuck up and take your race baiting elsewhere.

 

[notimp]

.. so I see you don't keep up with it the newest Generation of panels would only take 5-6 to power a house full and
again image, if the US actually cultivate this tech in stead of fighting it tooth and nail , I mean real gets behind developing it, it would only take a couple of years.

Issue is, that (edit: solar) development is cheaper in china.

It really is. And it really is the issue.

In Europe they are bringing back solar plants but only because (and I quote -) "we can raise efficiency by an additional bit, but not that much (currently)" (PR) and "transport is becoming a much higher cost factor" - because producing those things (fully automated), has become so cheap. Which is important, no - necessary - to keep cost per gigawatt hour low.

So as a result not that many jobs in that sector.

Investing into wind energy is the 'better play' for germany, as more high level engineering is required. And when the sun is not shining, maybe the wind is blowing, so a 'mix' is interesting to everyone.

 

[djpannda]

Issue is, that development is cheaper in china.

It really is.

.... I think you mean manufacturing is cheaper in china.. Tesla has made huge head way in development and if the government truly backs, the US and Tesla would hold the patents for the newer generations.

 

[notimp]

.... I think you mean manufacturing is cheaper in china.. Tesla has made huge head way in development and if the government truly backs, the US and Tesla would hold the patents for the newer generations.

Tesla is different. Tesla is automation (mobility) and maybe storage (but not so much).

Tesla is "when in the new economy, you dont own a car, you order it, and it will drive to your doorstep and then automatically to your workplace", increasing efficiency and productivity. And reducing overall cars on the street. Teased for 'in ten (to twenty) years' (but I dont believe in that time table for level 5 automation.. )

edit: And battery production, and battery recycling infrastructure. And industrial transport infrastructure (which could go live - earlier).

Also - until you get there Tesla is a more attactive (but overvalued) car brand than german car manufacturers.

So the value is very likely in the infrastructure play.

Also until you get to a zero carbon/a carbon neutral economy (what many countries are pledging as a 2050 goal), Teslas emit more CO2 than - well not a Humvee, but a normal equivalent car. But that doesnt matter so much, because in a carbon neutral economy they dont. And you need to get there somehow.

edit: This: https://eufactcheck.eu/factcheck/mo...s-generate-higher-emissions-than-diesel-cars/

Factcheck says 'mostly false' but currently - eh... no.

edit2: Better calculations:
https://electrek.co/2020/09/01/tesl...fetime-emissions-mercedes-benz-c-class-study/
(Well, at least - calculations.. )

 

[djpannda]

Im not talking bout tesla the car but solar product...


and it sound like you are taking bout the issue of how can we get jobs out of it instead of how can we advance society ..
tech should never delay because of that.. Its not like there was a delay in creating the Automobile because the horse-drawn carriage industy will die.
and most issue you are stating can be minimized and even eliminated within couple of generations. but fully relying on fossil fuel as a limit.. that we will reach...

 

[AmandaRose]

Not near powerful enough to sustain a modern lifestyle.

Really that's funny when 90% of electricity in Scotland is wind and hydro produced.

 

[Doran754]

Really that's funny when 90% of electricity in Scotland is wind and hydro produced.

Considering theres like 5m people in Scotland, I should think so.

 

[AmandaRose]

Considering theres like 5m people in Scotland, I should think so.

True but it should be possible to do in pretty much any other country in the world but government ls would rather have dirty electricity rather than renewable. There is no reason for countries to still have nuclear and coal power stations.

 

[djpannda]

True but it should be possible to do in pretty much any other country in the world but government ls would rather have dirty electricity rather than renewable. There is no reason for countries to still have nuclear and coal power stations.

,,, lol I think you should google how the coal industry "donates" to the government.. and how many Government officials have stock in coal.

 

[SonowRaevius]

Current solar cells actually only have about 22-27% efficiency at the moment, which is huge considering when I was about 12 they were at 5-9%.

We've come far with it, but we have much more to go in that area.

However we are also developing more adaptable solar panels as well, like ones that are clear and can be used as windows or screen for phones which have the same amount of efficiency at current standards.

 

[KingVamp]

There are also solar roofs, that don't even look like solar panels.