enjoying Universal Healthcare, while saying Socialist Liberal programs are bad... that is the definition of "Pure Privilege"
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Joe Biden is now officially the 46th President of the United States of America
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What you mean by "further education" is just... the remainder of a full education. Due to still being a basic human right, it should not require payment, let alone enough to warrant taking out a loan. End of story.
It's not universal healthcare. It's free at the point of use. I don't understand what you're struggling to understand. There's also private healthcare companies available. We're all taxed for this. I'm not taxed to pay for somebody VOLUNTARILY attending a university. They're choosing to get themselves into debt. Why are you comparing a hospital to a university. Your argument is weak. Why stop there? Lets just make everything free (obviously It's not free, what you mean is charge the rich more)
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first off, you keep acting like going to a university is something that actually makes sense to lock behind wealth
it does not
wealth should not determine access to education
ngl the US should switch to Finland's system- ban all for-profit education entirely
it's shown to have succeeded wonderfully, mostly because the rich are forced to actually help fund public schools so that their kids get a good education
second off, charging the rich more is a good thing
WHO THE FUCK ELSE ARE YOU GOING TO CHARGE
you do know Universal Healthcare means that Basic care is not charged... it does not mean everything is covered... just the Basics like ...stuff to keep you alive.....
oh ..you are claiming that its ok for you to have it but not anyone else??? ..
I'm beginning to think you can't read. ITS NOT FREE. There's plenty of things you can do as an American I can't do but you're just being purposefully facetious at this point. If you want socialised healthcare there's plenty of countries you're welcome to move to who fulfill this. It's not free though, come to England, start paying your national insurance.
Again you conflated two issues which have absolutely no bearing on each other. One is voluntary debt, the other is life saving (free at the point of use) you're comparing somebody getting life saving treatment in an emergency to GOING TO UNIVERSITY FOR $10,000 and expecting to pay nothing. CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE. Also you're American, you won the birth lottery, stop talking down to a lowly non American pleb with all your American privilege. CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE.
You're welcome to break the system, you're obviously educated yourself. Why don't you dedicate the remainder of your time and effort into doing online classes until you can open a class irl after the Pandemic. Your time and effort is free though, I look forward to attending your classes and paying nothing.
Last edited by Doran754,
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>going to university for $10,000
that is the problem though
the only reason student loans exist is so that the fucked-up education system can claim it's giving everyone access to itself while really just draining shittons of money from people and preventing them from having a decent life after higher education... all because they were given free rein to ramp prices up that high in the first place
we need the finnish system
as long as basic higher education costs exorbitant amounts of money, greedy universities will be able to drain students' money with no real consequences and lock out anyone that DOESN'T want to go into nigh-life-debt
you do understand how government funding works, right?
non-profit public schooling isn't funded by random parents, it's funded with tax dollars
students should not have to pay to have a basic full education, and if for-profit education is banned, they won't have to
finland did amazingly with it, the only things stopping the US from doing so are a) greed and b) petty and apathetic dickery from people like you that think people deserve to suffer for not being born rich enough
america's education system is such a botched mess that the only real solution is to completely invert it into the finnish system I mentioned
read about it here: https://www.theatlantic.com/nationa...gnoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/
tl;dr (still a paragraph but whatever): finland was once in a position where their school system desperately needed a reboot
instead of excellence, they focused on equity
instead of competition, they focused on cooperation
the result was a school system in which everyone is given equal-opportunity education, schools are made healthy, physically and mentally safe environments devoid of over-competitive stress, schools don't jerk themselves off to standardized test scores because there are none, public schools are given the funding they deserve due to being literally the only option, teachers and administrators are actually given the recognition and pay they deserve as well as the responsibility it warrants...
and the result of all of this?
ironically, despite a lack of focus on academic excellence, that turned out to be a thing that the finnish system just kind of passively generated because EVERYONE was given the tools and environment necessary to achieve it at their own pace and of their own volition
Last edited by Plasmaster09,
. socialist Liberal programs for you are ok ..but not for anyone else...
Its funny you squirming trying to demonize your own country's Liberal programs that you enjoy..
Universal Healthcare is not free in any country in the world... Taxes and Government Budget pay for it. .. You know This yet you want to Continue to portray the American Conservative narrative that Demonizes programs for Common people.. all while enjoying the same programs
It's nationalised, not socialised. Am I okay paying for national insurance so people don't die? Yes. Am I okay being taxed so children can get an education upto the age of 16. Yes. Am I okay to pay for you to go to college and university at 18 or older? No, get a job and pay for it yourself. Nothing you say surprises me. "I DESERVE FREE EDUCATION EVEN THOUGH IM AN ADULT" Not once have you assessed this point. All you do is change the subject to health care. Healthcare and University isn't the same thing so im not surprised you strawman this to try and act like you've got a decent argument when you don't. If you wanted UHC you'd move to the UK. Start paying your National Insurance. You have the ability to do so. You'd STILL HAVE TO PAY FOR UNIVERSITY THOUGH. Hopefully now you realise your argument is stupid asf at best.
Just went to Mcdonalds, imagine my shock when I had to pay. Here I was thinking I lived in a socialised utopia, I deserve food, I need to eat to live, why is this basic necessity not free. shocked I was.
....oh you Agee with socialist programs as long as I call it Nationalized?..cool I guess the world needs Nationalized Healthcare .. but you know for everyone in the world.......
Glad you mentioned Finland. Finland Isn't America. Finland has a population of 5,500,000. America has a population of 328,000,000
Finland=America. No.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47496326
This Finland? The Finland who's government resigned over their failed healthcare reforms?
Or maybe you mean the Finland that trialed Universal Basic Income for 2 years and scrapped it because they couldn't afford it. Yeah Finland is great.
....oh you Agee with socialist programs as long as I call it Nationalized?..cool I guess the world needs Nationalized Healthcare .. but you know for everyone in the world.......
You're blind thick or both. I agree with nationalised healthcare so people don't die. I don't agree with you voluntarily being a jobless lazy clown who gets himself into thousands and thousands of debt and then expect tax payers to foot the bill. Get a job pay for your own shit.
I don't think I said anything about people getting into debt and expecting to be bailed out, nor did I say anything about people willingly getting into debt and expecting to not pay anything back. Please try again without being disingenuous. Thank you.
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The article I linked straight up says that Finland may have noticeable differences from America, but notes that the similarities between the two mean that the plan would still likely work.
Oh, wait. You probably didn't bother reading it.
Also... you really don't understand, do you?
The people buried in student loan debt aren't "jobless lazy clowns", that's just shitty victim-blaming. They're just as hard-working as everyone else, but aren't lucky enough to have had enough wealth naturally to obtain what people in other countries get for free as they rightly should.
It makes no sense that someone should have to either drown in debt or overwork themselves before they turn twenty in order to afford higher education.
People shouldn't HAVE to get themselves into thousands of dollars in debt in the first place for a basic human right.
Student loan debts deserve to be forgiven because student loans shouldn't exist in the first place because basic education SHOULD NOT COST A FUCKING CENT.
Last edited by Plasmaster09,
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That's not what I said and you know it- you're just throwing straw-men at my argument in hopes something sticks. It won't.
I assume your Swiss-cheese sentence was meant to say "until the age of 18", in which case... that isn't enough. College, university, whatever... That. Should. Be. Free.
Nobody stays in college forever.
I'm not asking for forever.
I am asking for a basic human right to be freely provided as it should.
Not 75% of it, not "all of it minus the last chunk", all of it.
Education is a right, not a privilege. Check your fucking privilege and accept that everyone deserves to have it as a right.
If being educated from 5-18 isn't enough then that's you and your countries problem. Because being educated to 16 is enough in the UK, 16 is enough in Europe. 15 is enough in India, so maybe you're the problem. You're given a free education upto the age you become an adult at 18.
80year old Jimmy who's worked his whole life is happy to pay for your child to get educated upto the age of 18 and join society as any rational person is. 80year old Jimmy might start to feel aggrieved if your child chooses to stay in education and Jimmy is on the hook for it though. Why should Jimmy pay for another adult to carry on getting educated. He's already paid for the last 10 years. You're educated, you're given your right. If you want further education you're welcome to pay for it, don't put your wants on somebody else. Jimmy's worked his whole life but is on the hook for your lazy son, fuck no. Everything you suggest is the height of selfishness.
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You're suggesting people drown in possibly lifelong debt for basic higher education, and blaming them for it and calling them lazy instead of showing the slightest microscopic shred of empathy, all because you don't want a single cent of your money going into helping someone else achieve a basic human right to its fullest extent. That's practically the DEFINITION of selfishness.
In your horribly distorted analogy, Jimmy probably wouldn't care. You know why? Because he doesn't know or care where each individual cent of his tax dollars go to begin with. Heck, he'd probably be happy that the money goes into helping those that desperately need it instead of something less worthwhile, like a massive oil pipeline that would wreak massive havoc on the climate.
And as I've said, the best solution isn't even just waiving student loan debts.
The best solution is obliterating the avaricious, for-profit atrocity of a school system that creates them in the first place.
There, no more student loan debts to get "selfishly" forgiven. In fact, no more student loan debts, no more student loans... no more scummy, paywalled private education!
But no. You don't want that either, even though the one nation that's had the balls and the morals to try it has succeeded with flying colors.
You want people to take what they've got and suffer.
You want the rich to stay rich and the poor to go fuck themselves into flipping burgers or something.
You want basic human rights to remain absent from the lower class, because otherwise one of your precious, freshly-pinched pennies might go to helping another human being that won't pay you back for it later.
You want a nation where everyone is for themselves, but you lack the rational thinking to realize that you would be completely and utterly fucked in that nation, quite possibly MORE than the rest of us- because if you're too lazy to have a grain of altruism, you're too lazy to succeed in a world devoid thereof.
People needing help or money to obtain things as simple as higher education is not lazy, nor is it selfish.
People like you, who would deliberately refuse to lift a finger to HELP them when they are in need of it, and instead engage in victim-blaming, mockery and general derision of those in desperate need of assistance while you jack yourself off over that pile of should-be-rights you got LUCKY enough to be able to afford... are the purest form of selfish.
Better than him randomly saying things such as "leftism is a religion".
Yeah, having everyone covered will always beat being overly expensive and still not covering everyone.
There's literally no good argument against increased access to education and having a more educated society.
Debt forgiveness would allow people to build equity and stimulate the economy. It's also the moral thing to do.
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