1. Foxi4

    Foxi4 Cynical Absurdist
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    I don't understand why people think this completely predictable result wouldn't materialise. They focus on the overall wealth of those who remain employed after such a move without considering the fact that while some people see their incomes increase from X to Y, others see it decrease from X to zero. The only way to prevent that from happening is to simultaneously have a robust economy *and* a wage increase, that gives some wiggle room, and that's not the situation we're in right now. When things are going swell you can afford to loosen the belt a bit, but a lot of businesses have been shut for the past year. In fact, we saw a huge wave of small businesses shutting their doors permanently, not temporarily. Let's punish them some more, that'll make them more competitive with big business.

    106704633-1600257620355-closures-since-march.jpeg

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/16/yel...e-coronavirus-pandemic-are-now-permanent.html

    They have *no money* to stay open, let alone increase wages.
     
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  2. Cryoraptor

    Cryoraptor GBAtemp Regular
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    Yep. It's not even just small businesses. Here in the UK a load of the big supermarkets have laid off thousands of employees during this whole thing. If the minimum wage were to increase to $15 (not that it necessarily would, but just using that as an example), it's hitting a lot of those vulnerable, low-paid jobs even harder. The thing about big business is, "they can afford it, they make billions of $ a year", yes, they do, but they are also spending billions of $ a year to make what they sell. Increase the minimum wage to $15 and now your minimum wage employee's work is worth twice as much. So it's either massively increase your wage budgets, and along with the higher corporate tax that will likely arrive with Biden (not that increased corporate tax is necessarily a bad thing), watch your profits sink and your business starts to consume money, or lay off half of your minimum wage workforce. We all know which one businesses that can afford to choose will choose. The ones that can't afford to choose? Well... their profits are gonna sink and they will see their businesses eat money. So what's the end result of that? Big business that can afford to choose is gonna come in to fill as much of the void that they can fill. So the end result of increasing the minimum wage in the current time is a lot of people reliant on the state, a lot of homeless people and an increased prevelance of big business, and said increased amount of people reliant on the state has its own collection of long-term issues. Well done Dems, you really did improve a lot of people's lives, didn't you?
     
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  3. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It
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    Walmart hates unions so much that any small sign of a union starting to form they will close an entire store and fire all workers just to prevent unions from forming. Then they always give the bullshit answer we are just repairing plumbing.
     
  4. IncredulousP

    IncredulousP GBAtemp's Resident Bastard
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    We need universal basic income and higher minimum wage quick or shit's gonna turn real ugly real fast. No, it won't make people homeless. No, it won't shut down businesses. If you're not paying your employees enough in the first place, something is fundamentally wrong. And no, in no reality will companies pay people more or even reasonably if you abolish minimum wage. Give corporations the ability to pay almost nothing, and they'll do it. And because poverty and wealth inequality is so rampant, where employment means life or death, there will always be someone willing to work for less. To advocate against minimum embarrassingly exposes privilege of never having lived paycheck to paycheck.
    I'm middle class right now, but only because I was lucky enough to be really damn good at stem AND i had the opportunity to go to school, even if it was through massive loans that I indebted myself with. I grew up poor, with drug addiction and violence rampant in my family and neighborhood. I was doomed to continue life in poverty if I weren't so gifted with opportunity.
    I suffer from clinical depression (yes it's a real medical condition despite what some ignorant people suggest) and it has only gotten so much worse from the traumas I and my family went through because of how fucked this country is financially from decades of Republican policies tearing away at middle and lower class life. Most of my family is dead now, from unlucky cancer to not being able to afford medical treatment over the years. Things wouldn't have been so bad in my life had my full-time working parents been more fairly compensated. Had my educational institutions not been so crippled from decades of budget cuts. Had my family been able to afford proper medication instead of relying on affordable street drugs. Had we been able to afford therapy (what luxury!). Had we been able to afford a living space big enough to properly house a 4-person family (not even that big). I didn't have extracurricular programs at school, I didn't have connections to get me a job after college (took me years just to get a position that underpaid me but got my foot in the door.) My family and I were always stressed, always in debt, always fighting. To put it bluntly, life fucking sucked. And having depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation through all of that. It's fucking amazing I'm alive today.
    And I was hardly the poorest of the poor growing up. My friends had it worse. Families destroyed, dead, miserable, working dead end jobs that don't pay them livable wages.
    You shouldn't be looking at abolishing minimum wage, you should be looking at fixing the wealth disparity that is causing the need for minimum wage in the first place.
    Sorry for the long winded rant, but the naivete and privilege that libertarianism reaks of just grinds my gears. I've lived through hell and all these silly libertarian "solutions" would just enable capitalism to become more dangerous and deadly than it already is.
     
  5. Cryoraptor

    Cryoraptor GBAtemp Regular
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    Actually, at this point in time, yes it will, for the reasons me and others have explained. I'm not in favour of abolishing minimum wage, in all honesty I think that's an idiotic idea for reasons others have mentioned, but it shouldn't be increased much right now either. Maybe in the future it can be increased somewhat. But doubling it during a pandemic is just nonsensical.

    Trust me, I don't come from a privileged background. For the first 8 years of my life I lived in a shite flat in an East London estate, and I went to an even shitter school. So don't pull the privilege card with me, that's not gonna wash. Granted, we weren't about to be thrown out, but it's not like we lived in luxury. We pretty much did live wage to wage until my dad got a better job in late 2010, and when my dad got made redundant earlier that year we were living on jobseekers allowance in the meantime. So no, I'm not 'privileged', I just have common sense.
     
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  6. Foxi4

    Foxi4 Cynical Absurdist
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  7. Purple_Shyguy

    Purple_Shyguy GBAtemp Maniac
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  8. Valwinz

    Valwinz GBAtemp Regular
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    SO Biden lie he told us the issue was trump and here he saying he cant do nothing about the Virus

    New record on lies

    People in the USA and Canada just lost their jobs in the XL pipeline
     
  9. wartutor

    wartutor GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    That was obvious any of these people that thinks the virus could of been stopped (or handled better) at the presidential level has just been lied to and are completely full of themselves. Dems used the virus as a way to "blame Trump for everything" and they did a good job of making the sheep believe it. As far as "he didn't get aid out fast enough, didn't do this, or that" it was an unknown virus the likes hasn't been seen in years and never at the population or the ease of travel we have today. As far as the aid that's more on the senate than anything else.
     
  10. chrisrlink

    chrisrlink Has a PhD in dueling
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    oh btw biden as I read has no interest in pardoning trump looks like he's going down and hard as for me Im cheering all of the justice system to win at pin the felony on the asshole (sorry for the language I'm jus gitty that trump will finally be going down for all the bad shit he's done

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    it can be slowed at least though people may not like it by doing mandates to mask wearing and increasing the legal repercussions from jus finds to days in jail that should make people conform mask saves lives I wear a mask always outside and never came down with covid yet
     
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  11. Valwinz

    Valwinz GBAtemp Regular
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    you need to commit crimes first to be able to accuse someone
     
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  12. laudern

    laudern GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    Very incorrect. The WHO will soon make a statement saying that the number of covid cases has been "unfortunately incorrectly inflated". US hospitals will suggest some cases of covid deaths may have actually not been the result of covid and instead other factors. The media will play alone and everything will get better. All because of Biden.
     
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  13. monkeyman4412

    monkeyman4412 Gbatemp's ™ master
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    Perhaps he would of been able do something about it if you know. Trumps team actually cooperated with him?
    Further more
    https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/21/politics/biden-covid-vaccination-trump/index.html
    Now, I'm going to wait for other sources to make this an absolute. (it's cnn, I really don't like using it as a single source, it's credibility is fairly mixed at times.)
    But if this is true, yeah it's going to take a while if literately no infrastructure or plan was made. And even then, deaths lag behind cases, and we still have not got enough testing to find those cases.


    Further more, Trump constantly downplayed the virus. And here we are now.
    If perhaps, IDK, Trump acted sooner and maybe actually did more (since he didn't) that maybe idk. It wouldn't be as bad as it is now?
    Because you know. cases are exponential.
    As the (Previous) President pretty much checked out regarding the whole thing.
    I'll say Biden is bad, but it's definitely not for having to adopt a broken mess of nonsense that the previous president didn't deal with proper.
     
    Last edited by monkeyman4412, Jan 23, 2021
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  14. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Legend
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    Trump's mess was catastrophic. It's going to take time to undo the damage. Given the epidemiology of where we are, it's absurd to say it's going to be fixed in more than a few months. President Biden's COVID-19 plans are extremely sound and effective, and it's going to make things a lot less worse than they otherwise would have been.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...n-s-covid-19-plan-warn-undoing-trump-n1255210
     
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  15. wartutor

    wartutor GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    Yeah let's put people in jail for not wearing masks. That's so American what a way to keep this country free. Fuckin dumbest thing I have read all damn day. How about we start by arresting all the democrats that got caught breaking their own rules.
     
  16. Foxi4

    Foxi4 Cynical Absurdist
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    With all due respect, so far the Biden plan looks almost exactly the same as the Trump plan, plus some additional mask-wearing recommendations.

    In terms of supposedly disastrous plans, Warp Speed is one of the chief reasons why a vaccine was developed in record time, so credit should go where credit is due. The biggest issue right now is individual states being unable to come to an obvious conclusion that healthcare workers and the elderly should be the first two groups to receive it - one due to daily contact with the disease, the other due to the highest level of morbidity from it. Some are so bad at this that they're running the risk of doses expiring. At this point they should just give the shot to anyone who asks, it's better than pouring them down the drain.

    If fact, Biden's administration is already following a pre-existing, working distribution plan, contrary to Nancy's ramblings. According to Anthony Faucci, the Patron Saint of COVID, the Biden administration is not "starting from scratch", there's a system in place already, it's being progressively amped up over time, and the new administration will continue to build upon it.

    https://thehill.com/policy/healthca...starting-from-scratch-on-vaccine-distribution
     
    Last edited by Foxi4, Jan 23, 2021
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  17. wartutor

    wartutor GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    Their is a couple thing in there that is down right stupid and a waste of money as in the double the testing sights and the develop addition tests including one u can use from home. At this point there is a vaccine and by the time you put all that money into additional sights and "new" ways to test hopefully their is a significant amount of people vaccinated and you won't need as many testing places or types of tests. Put that money into buying and distributing the vaccine faster or (if not needed for that) just save John q taxpayers money. Alot of that shit seams just thrown in there to try and make it look like he is doing more or something better than Trump just a waste of time and money.
     
    Last edited by wartutor, Jan 23, 2021
  18. Cryoraptor

    Cryoraptor GBAtemp Regular
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    Saying the lack of response to COVID is Biden's fault because he inherited it from Trump is like saying Iraq is Obama's fault because he inherited it from Bush. Stop talking bollocks.
     
    Last edited by Cryoraptor, Jan 23, 2021
  19. Foxi4

    Foxi4 Cynical Absurdist
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    Not really the point. The point is that Biden ran on a "Trump doesn't have a plan and I do, it's ready to go from Day 1 when I'm elected" platform. That's obviously not the case - he's continuing with what was already in place, it's not a brand-new plan, it's the same plan. In terms of COVID response, due to the way the U.S. government works, a lot of the blame is on individual state governments, not the federal government which really doesn't have a lot to say on these matters, at least not until the situation reaches full-blown existential threat, national emergency level.
     
  20. Cryoraptor

    Cryoraptor GBAtemp Regular
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    Maybe, but outright saying the current COVID situation is Biden's fault is frankly idiotic. And yes, some on this thread and elsewhere have said that. They are probably trolls, or at least, I hope so.
     
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