Joe Biden is now officially the 46th President of the United States of America

[Julie_Pilgrim]

Does that mean Switzerland is a better country than the US?

Of course

 

[Foxi4]

The issue, which is usually the issue when it comes to..."disagreements" like this, is one of perspective and goals. If you view students as product and consumer (and switch between the two as convenient), and your goal is profit (either directly or indirectly), then yes. of course you're going to see universities as businesses. and you're going to try and min/max the risk/profit while squeezing as much out of your product while minimizing the actual amount of effort put in. As funding on the federal and state level have continued to plumit over the years, it's not been possible for universities to continue to be bastions of progress and research. They've had to cut corners, teach only the "more profitable" courses and degrees, and lean far more heavily on students/connections to be the income support.

If you view education as a place where humanity develops and codifies knowledge, to pass on the understanding of those who came before, to be a safe place to develop ideas and concepts, to test various hypothesis, disprove age-old myths and legends, to ignite passions and to nurture mature thinking in anyone who desires to learn...well, then, the state of higher education (and primary) in both funding and how it's presented in US politics is sad, pathetic, and barbaric.

If your perspective is only the strongest or most-privileged survive, then I think you need to reevaluate your ethics

False dichotomy. Describing people who don't share your view on how certain things should be organised as somehow ethically deficient is part of the problem.

Funny thing is, Finland has THAT problem covered too!
An interesting consequence of a system that values cooperation and schools being safe, healthy and well-funded environments where students can grow and learn at their own pace... is that it practically produces droves of star students without even trying!
(The article I posted a few pages ago on said system noted that, despite it explicitly NOT being the goal, Finland's new system resulted in shockingly good performance from an absurdly high amount of students. Probably because it encourages working together instead of obsessing over being "the best one in XYZ".)

I have several problems with this, but I'll limit myself to two of the major ones. Firstly, Finland's population is exceedingly homogenous - the students are all from very similar households, and as such have very similar educational needs. While Finnish students are actually studying, American students are deliberating on the finer points of math being racist. I wish that was a joke, but I've seen a number of papers to that effect in recent memory, all of them rather odd given the fact that math is purely logic-based and doesn't leave much room to cultural interpretation. Secondly, this is not how you win the Olympics or land on the moon. Success is born from exceptionalism, not a sea of mediocrity. I have no qualms with pairing good students with underperforming students as long as the end result is pulling underperforming people up as opposed to cutting the overperforming ones at the hamstrings, however I can't help but think that perhaps those who *are* overperforming should simply progress to fulfil their potential faster instead of wasting time in classes that do not provide them with a measurable benefit - educating is the paid profession of the educator, not fellow students.

 

[notimp]

I have several problems with this, but I'll limit myself to two of the major ones. Firstly, Finland's population is exceedingly homogenous - while Finnish students are actually studying, American students are deliberating on the finer points of math being racist.

You misunderstood that as well.

The SJW movement was a network to promote pushing yourself up the carreer ladder, in large parts. You followed a completely misguided internal logic of 'whos oppressed most, should be highest in hirarchy'. You deplattformed other people, you filled your facebook channel with 'I'm socially caring' news - 2/3 of which were directed at caring for microminorities.

You had corporate america embrace it - because that (showing you cared for diversity) promised more consumer stickyness - which is promoted by industrial giant figureheads, as the main venue for revenue growth for Fortune 500 companies. Only in that vain, you also made it 'important in society'.

Both corporations, and political entities LOVED it, because it meant, business as usual - in terms of major societal costs -- it simply was the response to 'no future growth markets' so make up something that industry likes.

Maybe in some fields, it let to lessening the paying gap between minorities, but even there - that wasnt that large to begin with (mostly showed up along education based metrics, so if you got the 'additional qualifications' aftermarket more diverse - good, otherwise no impact).

So everybody loved it. Its regenerating the same 'values' that boomers instilled - so no large scale social change at all. More diverse friends on facebook. More opportunities for token personal - everyone feeling better, thats it.

So in that sense - from the point of view of established companies, and entities its a win/win/win.


You literally managed to channel all of the youths anger and resentment over things not working into an internal culture, where they learned to shut up, or be character assassinated, and something that resulted in no additional cost for governments, and only marketing related costs for corporation, they were planning on spending anyway.

It was genius.
-

Also on the concept of 'left liberal arts' colleges in general. You want them, you want to keep them, because they are your 'developing grounds' for new societal concepts, that you can fall back on, when the next mob is in the streets, demanding change that is not "we'll let the market handle it". In theory. In practice, this generation largely destroyed debate culture, just to promote its own networks to get up top.

As a consequence, the 'impact' of that ideology - is far less visible, than many people would have imagined in the first place. Because with most proponents of the movement having learned to selfcensor themselves like champs, and others off the stage, they fit in wonderfully into whatever corporate culture they were moving up into. They just adopted. That was what they trained for their whole lives. And if their workspace was more diverse - they had everything they wanted.


On the positive side - more minorities got identification figures, they can look up at - just that that will not change large amounts of them being platformed into new job fields (education here still is the deciding factor, not race - ). Maybe in two generations this will lead to less discrimination, based on prejudices, as people are trying to replicate their own work environments. But for the larger parts of millenials or Gen Z - they are not even feeling that change.

On the positive side, more diversity should also lead to more innovation, just by the mere fact, that more people are thinking with more diverse consumer groups in minds - currently I dont see that happening so much (its more a better PR, so higher consumer loyalty, so more concentration outcome from where I'm looking at this), but again, this might very much be the case a few years from now. More diversity, on its own is championed as raising innovation.
--

In case you want to go all in on the dichotomy between "innovation leaders" (lets say technological innovation), and people "only looking at social issues". The fact still remains, that all future growth the US has to look forward to is either automated, or export related. Your future growth markets are mexico and india. So you'd need a bunch of people telling others to care more about social topics in country anyhow - which is why companies are hiring them as well, just minimum wage level (from where they are paying off their student debts), so why hate on those people. In the eyes of corporations, they 'didnt make the cut' anyhow - and internal growth is over. Heck if you are in the industries most people in this forum usually are pointing at for future technological development - all you did was to automate, put people into behavioral skinner boxes, subscription schemes, or predictive behavioral models. And the point of those are - to get as many people outside of your country also into those as possible - so that they can become profitable in the first place. For that you are preventing foreign countries to tax your tech companies, and are all worried about 'intellectual property theft' and 'cyber security', because you are sitting on monopolies - and try to shape the world after largely micropayment based systems once more - just at a very large scale. edit: Sorry, I forgot the great societal progress that was Uber and Taskrabbit.

And with that I'm not even looking at the migration away from california, which you predominantly caused.

The next future market isnt tech anymore, its biotech - so thats where your Wallstreet honchos, are putting most of their attention towards currently. If you see that as a future growth market for well paying jobs 'internally' - I wouldnt know what those would look like. Genetical engineering pedicure? And most of the output of that goes directly into industrial production - more automated than ever.

If you are talking about real societal development - all of the individual parts in an iPhone were inventions that came straight out of public grants. Those initiatives are no where to be seen. The closest analogue is "we are going to mars" - now championed by your private sector, and the impact of that currently is attracting more students to those sectors. Maybe.


So what would you do differently and why? You'd have more people 'just get a job' - (so no higher education that leads nowhere), with far less good jobs out there (generation barista, also look at the economy) than in your parents generation, then wait for them noticing. And have a revolt on your hand.

The entire premise, that you get far too few qualified individuals as an output of your education system is false. The quota of people you need for those positions has probably not changed, or decreased in the past 20 years (how many people does google employ, vs. how many people does it serve?), at the same time attendance to university has increased. And social mobility has fallen in the US longterm (https://www.pnas.org/content/117/1/251 - roughly,no good jobs).

This is a recipe for internal revolutions, if you dont pacify your population with 'shift priorities' BS, which has to come - exactly from the people only deliberating "on the finer points of math being racist".

If they arent saving your ass this time around...

Thats btw not my opinion, but the one that Larry Fink is selling to all financial investors for the past three years.

edit: src: https://socialpurpose.ca/larry-fink-social-purpose/

 

[Lacius]

Being unable to connect to the internet is the bottom rung and has nothing to do with being a minority. Transportation issues and crappy facilities are a more connected with income inequality than to do with racial matters. Language barriers shouldn't exist because of, at least, the internet.

I didn't read the full article because it wants me to log in. But, if it's racist, then people who uphold it as an authority are racist; right?

These are some of the hurdles Black and Latinx people are facing that their White counterparts are not:

1. Websites that are English only, when a lot of Latinx people only speak Spanish.
2. Systemic income inequality that disproportionately affects Black and Latinx people, exacerbated by the pandemic, which can make it a decision between the trip to get vaccinated, paying for groceries, paying the phone bill, etc.
3. The same income inequality issues above have cut some people off from the internet.
4. Older Americans, particularly older Black and Latinx Americans, don't know how to use technology as well as their White counterparts. Due to the aforementioned income inequality issues, there was a delay in generational access to technology compared to White people.
5. Websites asking for social security numbers affect vaccine registration for illegal immigrants.
6. Websites asking for health insurance information affect people without health insurance, and they are disproportionately Black and Latinx.

Joe Biden has repeatedly said racial equity is at the center of his response to the coronavirus pandemic, due to the systemic racism these communities face and the fact that the virus is disproportionately affecting these communities. The idea that Joe Biden is somehow racist for his remarks is just stupid. Joe Biden isn't "upholding" these systemic issues. He's trying to fix them.

Frankly, I don't really care if you think other variables contribute to poverty, and I don't necessarily disagree with you; the fact of the matter is that income inequality clearly and demonstrably exists, and to argue that it doesn't is foolish. We can talk about why it exists, but it flatly exists.

I also don't give a damn if you think language barriers shouldn't exist because "internet." They exist, and I'm sorry if that's inconvenient for you.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Biden defence fore defending his constant actual racism

Communities of color demonstrably have a more difficult time getting vaccine registrations. See my previous post for details. Your attempts at trolling are just sad at this point.

 

[tabzer]

These are some of the hurdles Black and Latinx people are facing that their White counterparts are not:

1. Websites that are English only, when a lot of Latinx people only speak Spanish.
2. Systemic income inequality that disproportionately affects Black and Latinx people, exacerbated by the pandemic, which can make it a decision between the trip to get vaccinated, paying for groceries, paying the phone bill, etc.
3. The same income inequality issues above have cut some people off from the internet.
4. Older Americans, particularly older Black and Latinx Americans, don't know how to use technology as well as their White counterparts. Due to the aforementioned income inequality issues, there was a delay in generational access to technology compared to White people.
5. Websites asking for social security numbers affect vaccine registration for illegal immigrants.
6. Websites asking for health insurance information affect people without health insurance, and they are disproportionately Black and Latinx.

Joe Biden has repeatedly said racial equity is at the center of his response to the coronavirus pandemic, due to the systemic racism these communities face and the fact that the virus is disproportionately affecting these communities. The idea that Joe Biden is somehow racist for his remarks is just stupid. Joe Biden isn't "upholding" these systemic issues. He's trying to fix them.

Frankly, I don't really care if you think other variables contribute to poverty, and I don't necessarily disagree with you; the fact of the matter is that income inequality clearly and demonstrably exists, and to argue that it doesn't is foolish. We can talk about why it exists, but it flatly exists.

Income inequality, education, and legal status are not racially dependent. If these issues can be addressed on an individual level, systematic changes can be adapted to scalable solutions--reaching more people despite their race.

I also don't give a damn if you think language barriers shouldn't exist because "internet." They exist, and I'm sorry if that's inconvenient for you.

Sorry, the point that I was trying to make is that because of the internet, people have accessibility to translation tools that they would be without if they were doing things strictly by paper. The lack of language support on government/hospital sites are concerning, but it seemed like the original suggestion was contrary to the point that I was making. "they face obstacles like language and technology barriers"

 

[Lacius]

Income inequality, education, and legal status are not racially dependent. If these issues can be addressed on an individual level, systematic changes can be adapted to scalable solutions--reaching more people despite their race.

Regardless, there are still issues of systemic racism that contribute to the racial income inequality, etc. that I mentioned above.

Sorry, the point that I was trying to make is that because of the internet, people have accessibility to translation tools that they would be without if they were doing things strictly by paper. The lack of language support on government/hospital sites are concerning, but it seemed like the original suggestion was contrary to the point that I was making. "they face obstacles like language and technology barriers"

Language barriers are one issue they're facing. Technology issues are another issue they're facing.

*Snip*

 

[osaka35]

there are many issues in higher education. to fix them, we have to agree that there is a problem, at which level a problem happens, at which level a solution would happen, what that solution would look like, how we do the thing, and how we measure its success. just listing the problems can be tough enough.

False dichotomy. Describing people who don't share your view on how certain things should be organised as somehow ethically deficient is part of the problem.

they're not the only two perspectives, but they are antithetical ideas. to have such differect conceptual frameworks and refuse to see how one impacts the other? of course this issue has ethical implications. of course it's an ethical issue. this is usually the divide that has to be bridged: the ethical imperative and the resource limitations tying our hands. but it's important to, at minimim, admit that it should be bridged.

many of the limitations are of our own creation and could be more easily fixed with a refocused goal. though this much is true for many, many "hot-button" issues in politics. basically, it boils down to this: if you see education just as training, then you do not understand the concept of education.

 

[Kurt91]

I'm sorry, but I'm going to argue against the English-only Internet Pages complaint as well, at least as far as it applies to Spanish/English. Translating between Spanish and English is one of the easiest conversions that a machine-translation can make, or at the very least, it's a hell of a lot easier than other languages. (Have you ever tried to machine-translate Japanese and get something that makes sense? There's a reason "Translation Aggregator" exists to run Japanese through 8 different machine-translation websites at once, and even then it's still up to the user to try and piece together what the most likely meaning is.)

Unless something's changed since the last time I've used it, Google Chrome has a handy little feature where you simple right-click on a page and hit "Translate Web Page", and in about 30 seconds it translates just about every single piece of text on the page that isn't an image. I happen to be a big fan of a comic called "Life with HipsterGirl and GamerGirl", and while the comic itself has an English version, the artist's website is entirely in Spanish, and if I want to read any of the discussions around the latest comic, I have to use the translate tool on Google Chrome. It converts between those two languages perfectly fine.

As far as not knowing how to use technology in specific, you're telling me that most of those grandparents don't have grandchildren who are more than capable of (begrudgingly, I'll admit) trying to explain how to use their new smart-phone? Yes, there are a few cases where there's no younger family members to teach them, but it's one of those things where all you have to do is ask. I'm sure that they've got at least one friend or acquaintance who can explain the basics as well as how to use Google to look up what they don't know, just like the rest of use. It's not an issue of not being able, it's an issue of being too stubborn to ask for help in 99% of these cases.

 

[JaapDaniels]

These are some of the hurdles Black and Latinx people are facing that their White counterparts are not:

1. Websites that are English only, when a lot of Latinx people only speak Spanish.
2. Systemic income inequality that disproportionately affects Black and Latinx people, exacerbated by the pandemic, which can make it a decision between the trip to get vaccinated, paying for groceries, paying the phone bill, etc.
3. The same income inequality issues above have cut some people off from the internet.
4. Older Americans, particularly older Black and Latinx Americans, don't know how to use technology as well as their White counterparts. Due to the aforementioned income inequality issues, there was a delay in generational access to technology compared to White people.
5. Websites asking for social security numbers affect vaccine registration for illegal immigrants.
6. Websites asking for health insurance information affect people without health insurance, and they are disproportionately Black and Latinx.

Joe Biden has repeatedly said racial equity is at the center of his response to the coronavirus pandemic, due to the systemic racism these communities face and the fact that the virus is disproportionately affecting these communities. The idea that Joe Biden is somehow racist for his remarks is just stupid. Joe Biden isn't "upholding" these systemic issues. He's trying to fix them.

Frankly, I don't really care if you think other variables contribute to poverty, and I don't necessarily disagree with you; the fact of the matter is that income inequality clearly and demonstrably exists, and to argue that it doesn't is foolish. We can talk about why it exists, but it flatly exists.

I also don't give a damn if you think language barriers shouldn't exist because "internet." They exist, and I'm sorry if that's inconvenient for you.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


Communities of color demonstrably have a more difficult time getting vaccine registrations. See my previous post for details. Your attempts at trolling are just sad at this point.

1. not all white people speak enlish native, they've got the excact same problem to deal with, not racism
2. if your job isn't paying off, stop wasting your time on that job!
3. see above.
4. that's still an issue these people create for themselves, dive into the info, seek help, stop the blaming.
5. yes, then get to the first point where you can register, if you keep walking against a wall, maybe you need a better map.
6. allright i give you that one, but then again: if the place you live and work can't get your bills payed, then move on and stop complaining.

 

[Lacius]

1. not all white people speak enlish native, they've got the excact same problem to deal with, not racism
2. if your job isn't paying off, stop wasting your time on that job!
3. see above.
4. that's still an issue these people create for themselves, dive into the info, seek help, stop the blaming.
5. yes, then get to the first point where you can register, if you keep walking against a wall, maybe you need a better map.
6. allright i give you that one, but then again: if the place you live and work can't get your bills payed, then move on and stop complaining.

1. The proportion of Lantix people who don't speak English is a lot higher than the proportion of White people who don't speak English.
2. You seem to be discounting the effects of systemic racism in this country as they pertain to income inequality. It takes a certain level of privilege to respond to this systemic racism by saying "oh, just get a better job dummy."
3. You seem to be discounting the effects of systemic racism in this country as they pertain to technological savviness. It takes a certain level of privilege to respond to this systemic racism by saying "oh, just do better dummy."

Regardless of how you feel about what people could or should be doing, the fact remains that the factors I've listed have contributed to a disparity in vaccination registrations based on race. Your post is embarrassingly dimwitted, and you're not helping anything by denying systemic race issues and saying "do better." If I were you, I'd delete my post. It's borderline racist. I'm completely at a loss for what you were trying to accomplish with it.

 

[JaapDaniels]

1. The proportion of Lantix people who don't speak English is a lot higher than the proportion of White people who don't speak English.
2. You seem to be discounting the effects of systemic racism in this country as they pertain to income inequality. It takes a certain level of privilege to respond to this systemic racism by saying "oh, just get a better job dummy."
3. You seem to be discounting the effects of systemic racism in this country as they pertain to technological savviness. It takes a certain level of privilege to respond to this systemic racism by saying "oh, just do better dummy."

Regardless of how you feel about what people could or should be doing, the fact remains that the factors I've listed have contributed to a disparity in vaccination registrations based on race. Your post is embarrassingly dimwitted, and you're not helping anything by denying systemic race issues and saying "do better." If I were you, I'd delete my post. It's borderline racist. I'm completely at a loss for what you were trying to accomplish with it.

1. yes and like anyone coming to a foreign country it's in thier best interest to seek help getting to understand local language. if you can't or do so it's not racism, it's lazyness.
2. that level isn't given at birth it's been given by working towards.
3. see 2.

 

[Plasmaster09]

1. yes and like anyone coming to a foreign country it's in thier best interest to seek help getting to understand local language. if you can't or do so it's not racism, it's lazyness.
2. that level isn't given at birth it's been given by working towards.
3. see 2.

1) Learning a new language is surprisingly difficult. Also, shitty victim blaming. Stop.
2) A substantial amount of it is given at birth, whether through wealth or simple genetics due to systemic bigotry. Denialism. Stop.
3) See 2. Stop.

 

[Lacius]

1. yes and like anyone coming to a foreign country it's in thier best interest to seek help getting to understand local language. if you can't or do so it's not racism, it's lazyness.
2. that level isn't given at birth it's been given by working towards.
3. see 2.

A significant population in this country speaks Spanish, and if the goal is to get people vaccinated, that should be considered. The fact that it isn't being considered in some places is disproportionately affecting the Latinx community. It sounds to me like you're arguing only for the sake of the arguing, and you're not going a good job at it.

Whether or not something happens at birth doesn't discount the fact that systemic racism exists. People who are LGBT aren't met with homophobia at birth, for example, but that doesn't mean homophobia doesn't exist. Systemic racism exists. It's societal, not biological. Good job. Why are you posting?

 

[BlazeMasterBM]

Man I'm literally dying of laughter it's so damn funny, it's almost as funny as the war in the middle east

though that will still be going on no matter what lol. Whether it's Trump, Biden, Obama, or anyone in office. Not saying I support it

 

[Plasmaster09]

though that will still be going on no matter what lol. Whether it's Trump, Biden, Obama, or anyone in office. Not saying I support it

yeah though Biden has at least decided to pull back from part of it (the invasion of Yemen)

 

[smf]

Of course they will. They can be competitive in price if you let them, or better yet, put them in a position where they must be competitive. That's precisely why throwing money at them is not the answer - the more free money they get the less incentivised they are to compete for money that isn't free.

Success driven payments, based on future earnings.

 

[JaapDaniels]

1) Learning a new language is surprisingly difficult. Also, shitty victim blaming. Stop.
2) A substantial amount of it is given at birth, whether through wealth or simple genetics due to systemic bigotry. Denialism. Stop.
3) See 2. Stop.

i've learned about 5 languages by now, none given by birth.
you learn by reading, talking with and so on,mine now ar dutch, english german at good level. spanish and italian to a certain level i can get my stuff when i need it, i can even get to basic small talk.
you and everyone else can learn a language, age nor roots should be any reason you can't it's difficult, yes.
so is everything in this world.
nothing ever is given, it takes practise, will and time.
here in the netherlands i help when someone struggles with the local language, and they do get there step by step, everyone if they wanna, but i won't help anyone who lives here for more then 5 years not trying to learn the basics of my language.
i don't think it's right to change a country for those who don't do thier homework.
if you want it, you get help to get to the level needed to get everythin. if you don't want to invest in the local language, don't be surpriced if things will not work your way.

 

[Doran754]

1. The proportion of Lantix people who don't speak English is a lot higher than the proportion of White people who don't speak English.
2. You seem to be discounting the effects of systemic racism in this country as they pertain to income inequality. It takes a certain level of privilege to respond to this systemic racism by saying "oh, just get a better job dummy."
3. You seem to be discounting the effects of systemic racism in this country as they pertain to technological savviness. It takes a certain level of privilege to respond to this systemic racism by saying "oh, just do better dummy."

Regardless of how you feel about what people could or should be doing, the fact remains that the factors I've listed have contributed to a disparity in vaccination registrations based on race. Your post is embarrassingly dimwitted, and you're not helping anything by denying systemic race issues and saying "do better." If I were you, I'd delete my post. It's borderline racist. I'm completely at a loss for what you were trying to accomplish with it.

Why do you insist on saying Latinx when even Latino's and Latina's dont say this, infact they hate this. Their language has Male and Female words. All you're doing is reinforcing that you actually don't care or know anything about them. If you did, you'd refer to them correctly. It always amuses me because If I didn't 'use someone's preferred pronoun's' you'd be the first too cry but here you are, purposefully ignoring what they themselves prefer because you're disingenuous at best and ignorant at worst.

Anyway i believe the rest of your points was 'the internet is racist' white privilege, systemic racism, racism racism etc and third point was racism? cool.

I must admit it's crazy to see the Biden defence force jump in too save him every time he says something racist though. Like the 94 crime bill wasn't enough. If Trump had said half of what Biden has you'd all be screeching like the rabid dog's you are but because It's Biden you're twisting yourself inside out to find ways to defend his blatant racism. Liberal privilege is real folks.

 

[Hanafuda]

Why do you insist on saying Latinx when even Latino's and Latina's dont say this, infact they hate this. Their language has Male and Female words. All you're doing is reinforcing that you actually don't care or know anything about them. If you did, you'd refer to them correctly. It always amuses me because If I didn't 'use someone's preferred pronoun's' you'd be the first too cry but here you are, purposefully ignoring what they themselves prefer because you're disingenuous at best and ignorant at worst.

Anyway i believe the rest of your points was 'the internet is racist' white privilege, systemic racism, racism racism etc and third point was racism? cool.

I must admit it's crazy to see the Biden defence force jump in too save him every time he says something racist though. Like the 94 crime bill wasn't enough. If Trump had said half of what Biden has you'd all be screeching like the rabid dog's you are but because It's Biden you're twisting yourself inside out to find ways to defend his blatant racism. Liberal privilege is real folks.

It's ok that Biden said something racist, @shamzie, because someone else said it first, in some article. He was just repeating it.

Biden has a tendency for that.

 

[Plasmaster09]

It's ok that Biden said something racist, @shamzie, because someone else said it first, in some article. He was just repeating it.

Biden has a tendency for that.

...you all yell "racist!" at Biden when he literally just cites an article, but have no problem with Trump's campaign being built on racism and xenophobia (mostly towards Mexicans for whatever reason)?
really?
y'all are hypocrites.