Joe Biden is now officially the 46th President of the United States of America

[Hanafuda]

I am seriously not believing the hype. Give it time, and we will see what these executive orders actually amount to.

In the mean time, watching Biden is even more funnier than watch Bush Jr. Who would have thought?

“There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.”

I liked the 'put food on your family' one better.

 

[Plasmaster09]

I liked the 'put food on your family' one better.

At least his verbal flaw is making innocent word flubs and not feeling the need to call himself the best at everything or berating anyone that dares disobey him.

 

[WeedZ]

I am yet to see one person adequately explain why student debt forgiveness is something we should pursue, regardless of whether we're talking about $10K or $50K.

This is the European showing through. Try hundreds of thousands. American education costs are off the rails.

 

[Foxi4]

This is the European showing through. Try hundreds of thousands. American education costs are off the rails.

I was referring to the two proposals discussed during the town hall event - 10K that Biden was happy with and 50K that he thought was too much.

 

[Plasmaster09]

I was referring to the two proposals discussed during the town hall event - 10K that Biden was happy with and 50K that he thought was too much.

In that respect, you're not wrong.
10k and 50k aren't really good numbers to pursue... because they're nowhere near enough.
Student loan debts shouldn't even exist, because college and university shouldn't be so greedily run that you have to either be lucky enough to be rich enough from the start, have several full time jobs before you turn twenty or sell your soul's worth in money just to afford the last quarter of what is ostensibly a fundamental human right.
And before you say anything else about the people drowning in student loan debt being lazy or something: that entire argument is a combination of the just-world fallacy, gratuitous victim-blaming and a profound lack of empathy. If they actually were too lazy to pay off their ludicrous amount of debt, they would be too lazy to bother DOING college or uni in the first place and deem it not worth the cost or effort.

 

[WeedZ]

I was referring to the two proposals discussed during the town hall event - 10K that Biden was happy with and 50K that he thought was too much.

Aw. I hadn't seen that. But yeah, they need to quadruple those numbers at least.

 

[tthousand]

Boring is good when compared to a dumpster fire.

Trump isn't even a show anymore. He left the White House a loser, and the only thing I saw about him today was the demolition of his tower.

In my local papers website today, 4 trump article and 2 biden articles. And there is a reason why trump was vilified by msm. Ill share that soon...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I liked the 'put food on your family' one better.

my favorite so far...

Biden: I dont even know what I'm signing.
Harris: just sign it.
Biden signs.
Biden: give that to the president

Honorable mentions:
"Poor kids are just as smart as white kids"
"I like kids better than people"
"You ain't black if you dont vote for biden"
And who can forget the classic, "I dont need you to get me elected"

 

[Plasmaster09]

In my local papers website today, 4 trump article and 2 biden articles. And there is a reason why trump was vilified by msm. Ill share that soon...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

my favorite so far...

Biden: I dont even know what I'm signing.
Harris: just sign it.
Biden signs.
Biden: give that to the president

Honorable mentions:
"Poor kids are just as smart as white kids"
"I like kids better than people"
"You ain't black if you dont vote for biden"
And who can forget the classic, "I dont need you to get me elected"

first of all, why must EVERYTHING be a "[mainstream media/big tech/the powers that be/other conspiracy scapegoat] is against me wah" thing
second of all, the "don't even know what I'm signing" is a quotemine, we've discussed this before, that ain't what he said

 

[tthousand]

first of all, why must EVERYTHING be a "[mainstream media/big tech/the powers that be/other conspiracy scapegoat] is against me wah" thing
second of all, the "don't even know what I'm signing" is a quotemine, we've discussed this before, that ain't what he said

It is what it is dude.

 

[Plasmaster09]

It is what it is dude.

vacuous, evasive and incorrect (what it is is not what you claim it is)
sums up most of what you've said so far on this thread along with it

 

[tthousand]

vacuous, evasive and incorrect (what it is is not what you claim it is)
sums up most of what you've said so far on this thread along with it

YAWN. Impressive river

Still waiting for my points to be dispelled with actual facts instead of ignorant ranting and/or incessant whining.

 

[tabzer]

I am seriously not believing the hype. Give it time, and we will see what these executive orders actually amount to.

In the mean time, watching Biden is even more funnier than watch Bush Jr. Who would have thought?

“There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.”

There was nothing fun about watching Bush Jr. Trump was a relief, to me, because he killed less people. It's a terrible thing that my satisfaction is based on how little someone kills. When can we flip the script and make it about how much life and prosperity is benefited, instead?

We are stuck on old technology, dreaming about the fatigue of nature. Everything already exists for us to have all the energy we need without the concern. We could draw energy from the Earth, and instead, be concerned with an ice age. Wait... Now I think about it, that was a concern rather recently. I hate everybody here. You are the problem. Trump should have been the clear sign that what you had wasn't working. If you would acknowledge your disgusting privilege and stop consuming, the rest of the world would be better off. Isn't that right?

 

[Lacius]

In my local papers website today, 4 trump article and 2 biden articles. And there is a reason why trump was vilified by msm. Ill share that soon...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

my favorite so far...

Biden: I dont even know what I'm signing.
Harris: just sign it.
Biden signs.
Biden: give that to the president

Honorable mentions:
"Poor kids are just as smart as white kids"
"I like kids better than people"
"You ain't black if you dont vote for biden"
And who can forget the classic, "I dont need you to get me elected"

The "I don't know what I'm signing" thing was proved a long time ago to be made-up nonsense. It didn't happen.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

There was nothing fun about watching Bush Jr. Trump was a relief, to me, because he killed less people.

Approximately 280,000 people died as a result of the Iraq War, but approximately 480,000 Americans alone have died in large part because of Trump's awful response to COVID-19.

Also, since you're apparently a prescriptivist, it's "fewer people," not "less people."

 

[Plasmaster09]

YAWN. Impressive river

Still waiting for my points to be dispelled with actual facts instead of ignorant ranting and/or incessant whining.

You haven't made any points. You've cited individual factoids that have absolutely nothing to do with each other, connected them in the dumbest way possible, REFUSED TO ADMIT YOU WERE THE ONE MAKING SAID CONNECTIONS BECAUSE OF HOW FUCKING STUPID THEY ARE, and have still not actually provided any evidence of the connection.
You have not made an argument, let alone any actual points therein.
Make one or fuck off.

 

[FAST6191]

In that respect, you're not wrong.
10k and 50k aren't really good numbers to pursue... because they're nowhere near enough.
Student loan debts shouldn't even exist, because college and university shouldn't be so greedily run that you have to either be lucky enough to be rich enough from the start, have several full time jobs before you turn twenty or sell your soul's worth in money just to afford the last quarter of what is ostensibly a fundamental human right.
And before you say anything else about the people drowning in student loan debt being lazy or something: that entire argument is a combination of the just-world fallacy, gratuitous victim-blaming and a profound lack of empathy. If they actually were too lazy to pay off their ludicrous amount of debt, they would be too lazy to bother DOING college or uni in the first place and deem it not worth the cost or effort.

Some would say the reasons such places cost so much is because the loans are government backed.

Allow anybody through your doors and be sure that you will be paid, as opposed to allowing those that meet higher standards and stand a chance of paying it back afterwards off their own back and you have to actually compete. Be sure you are getting paid and you can provide a 4 year holiday* (not sure why Americans do 4 years for a basic bachelors the rest of the world knocks out in three, or actually I am but I will sideline that one for now) that you issue a worthless bit of paper. I am equally not a fan of the coddled approach of US universities -- most other places it is almost a job you pay to attend and treated much the same way. The "free and safe to explore ourselves" bit that the US seems to go in for is almost antithetical to anything I would have seen elsewhere, and also the polar opposite of what your schoolmates would be experiencing if they joined the big world of work (and if said universities are the best and brightest, most capable and whatnot then... yeah).
A sign of a healthy society is that you can afford to have people take higher education in whatever esoteric area of history, social science or other thing that is not "I fix you/your thing or design/build you a better one or grow your food" but at the same time there is a balance. If only the most academically gifted, determined or maybe financially well off can take a course for which the economy as a whole has maybe 300 openings a year then so it goes.

*if your facilities above and beyond what are needed to teach a course are more than a gym, swimming pool, sports hall/meeting room you can hire out for a club,library and maybe something you can repurpose from extant equipment (a university I went to had a flight training option for some of its courses, you could hire out the training simulator for fun, just like my mate that works in the chroming shop can pay to use that on the off time for his stuff, or my mate that works in an office can book the meeting room for a book club) then you have probably gone wrong somewhere.


I don't necessarily know that university grade education need to be within the mandatory/necessary realm either. Makes sense to have it as an area of specialisation for those looking to play academic, researcher or high end skills. Other stuff seems way better served by skills training, apprenticeships and the like with maybe a day release to hit books if needs be. Some of it seems plain ridiculous -- why I need a degree in hotel management as opposed to having someone do front desk, move to shift lead eventually, interface between departments, then maybe second in command and on from there I do not know. It might also take a bit of a societal shift, though as I have been around to witness the "no degree, no advancement" shift in things that worked fine for decades before without it, and increasing dismissal of degrees in industry in more recent times still, then that seems within reason.


Now there are issues. Pay off some school types in high schools (guidance counsellors in US parlance, careers advisor in UK) with kick backs (which is just the beginning of their shady recruitment efforts) and whatnot to say university is the only way, and then get some probably 17 year old** to effectively agree to masses in loans when they can't even tell me what compound interest is (never mind contemplate the effects of the government being the guarantor). That is the conditions for a predatory setup if I have ever seen such a thing.

**one the US says is barely fit to drive, scarcely able to see a lot of films, in finance terms would probably struggle to get a $5000 car loan, probably can't drive a lorry, can't run for various forms of political office, can't join various flavours of military, police, possibly can't drink (granted I think 21 is ridiculous but different discussion), and if universities are to be believed are so underdeveloped in mind that they might be irrecoverably harmed if they hear certain words or concepts during the next few years whilst under their remit and thus need to be shielded from them.


Now as said predatory setup has been running for some number of years now you have many caught up within it, and potentially more pouring in. This would seem like something that wants to be solved.
I would immediately start with maybe "no new guaranteed loans issued" (possibly allow those that started to complete) or maybe cap it at something low like $15k per year (most of the rest of the world, often with even less land to play with and better standards of living/higher costs of living seems to crank out people just as, or sometimes more, skilled than the US manages for less than that).
Probably push trades and apprenticeships -- blank slate is a fairly silly thing, some people are not capable or maybe not inclined towards that (some people just do better with their hands). As it stands plenty are opting out of university in favour of such things as they see the debts of others, and the monies afforded by trades. Certifications is a fun one and I don't want to gate off too many jobs which is what often happens when certifications become too heavily considered (technically speaking if the factory down the road had a big specialist high voltage transformer blow up they might well come running to me, pay me an awful lot of money to design them a new one and later see to its fitting and test it before commissioning, and still have their insurance/investors/whatever consider it a bargain at twice the price, if however I wanted to replace the socket behind the computer I am typing this on with a fancy USB socket then legally speaking I would need to hire an electrician who maybe did a 2 week course and got his name on a register somewhere. This sort of thing is a relatively new development but one I see replicated with similar timelines all over the world)
Make recruitment for universities a hard one -- the kickbacks probably want to go for one, don't know specifics (whether you go for tobacco advertising levels of hard or something less I don't know) beyond that but harder.
If a softer approach is needed for something then maybe consider placement rates (not an easy thing -- plenty of physics peeps wind up programming computers for financial firms and what that might count as gets tricky) or professional pass rates (your law degree does not see X% people pass relevant exams to actually be a lawyer within 2 years...).
Maybe mandate a minimum funding from research percentage -- if industry is paying you for research or you are writing the proposals that gain the grants then surely you are doing something right.

Now what to do with those already caught in the vortex... that is hard. Assuming you care to solve the problem for them as the government (not necessarily a popular position -- "you dug the hole" is not without reason or standing, plenty of lost generations as it were already out there). Reneging on being a guarantor is not a great look as a government and when you have already given the whole pie away (we pay 100% and will handle enforcement...) it leaves you in a really weak position to negotiate. You can try a strongarm approach or veiled threat (we might just be crazy enough, or you could take 80% and call it a day) but when universities are already going pop because they over extended themselves (granted not in any way that particularly matters -- tenure, pointless roles (assistant director of diversity earning $100k P.A. is probably not a useful expense/providing a good ROI), nonsense sports/entertainment facilities...) then might not get many biters if they have factored in payback rates. Could possibly fire up the money printer and offer cash now to buy the debts (assuming you care to have your citizens in debt to you) at a lower rate than might be expected, something that might even attract the finance firms that likely own the debts (doubt universities hold more than they are required to). Wind in a nice little jobs corp, public/national service type deal that might both pay someone and reduce the burden beyond that (possibly also whilst doing the experience or further training) and you start getting somewhere. Wiping it out (never mind what you do about people that did manage to pay it back, though "tough shit, thanks for being a good citizen" is likely where that would head) likely being the last of the options, and a terrible one.

The education lobby is also horrifically powerful within political spheres -- https://www.investopedia.com/investing/which-industry-spends-most-lobbying-antm-so/ and that is before you consider that there are education unions of all flavours in every town and state and general public support when "it is for the future of your children". All of which I would bet everything on having its full force used should you stop their pork barrel with the government backed loans as it stands today.

The Finland and other Nordic countries model wherein various flavours of private education are really difficult, if not impossible. Interesting model with some interesting results. Don't know how well it would scale or apply within the US though. Have some government run stuff by all means but I don't know that I would deny the option for private to exist -- there will always be something niche, something someone can afford to do better (even if it is because new equipment is that much better than those stuck with old stuff), and people going to do workarounds -- I already have informal clubs with nice toys and arrangements with companies to train people in ways I might struggle to do.

As far as education as a right. The sensible country educates, or facilitates an environment in which, everybody has as much as they can reasonably afford to do so -- the rise of automation means skilled people are the only ones that get ahead. Whether I quite get to classifying it as a right in certain senses... harder. Find a citizen/business/entity denying education and come down on them like a tonne of bricks, beyond that gets more variable.

 

[tabzer]

"fewer people," not "less people."

Thanks.

 

[Plasmaster09]

As far as education as a right. The sensible country educates, or facilitates an environment in which, everybody has as much as they can reasonably afford to do so -- the rise of automation means skilled people are the only ones that get ahead. Whether I quite get to classifying it as a right in certain senses... harder. Find a citizen/business/entity denying education and come down on them like a tonne of bricks, beyond that gets more variable.

Due to a successful and decently wealthy (and by decently wealthy, I mean "not living check to check") life often being dependent on experience and degrees that can only be obtained through full college or university education, said full education itself is currently almost always a requirement to a certain "pursuit of happiness" that the Declaration of Independence states as an inalienable right.
As long as a majority of decent- or well-paying occupations hold college or uni as an effective requirement, they should by all reason be considered a right.

 

[Valwinz]

another L for the Biden people
Failed to fetch tweet https://twitter.com/colinkalmbacher/status/1362537940325437452

 

[SG854]

WTF Biden why reject the $50,000 Student Loan Debt?

Congress is more then happy to approve of pointless wars that cost thousands of dollars and thousands of lives. But student loan debt forgiveness, whoa hold on, thats too fuckin far.

 

[Foxi4]

another L for the Biden people
https://twitter.com/colinkalmbacher/status/1362537940325437452

So, Obama 2.0 rather than Biden 1.0. I can live with that.