Israel vs. Hezbollah topic

[Mucuna]

I don't care how much good it would do for my country or for my cause, I would NEVER celebrate the death of thousands of innocent people.

That's what's happening in arab countries (death of thousands of innocent people). It's not "terrorists atacks", it's "legal war incursions".

Not only in arab countries. In all Africa, East Europe, South America happens too. But it is not economical and political interesting for the """"world leaders"""" to look and talk about them.

Killing civils with a bomb in your chest or throwing missles at their houses from airplanes. What's the diference for that people?

As you said, the end don't justifiy the means.

It is all about power, control and money.

 

[Cromat]

Hizbullah has been provoking Israel for 6 years without any major response. They crossed an international border, kidnapped 2 soldiers and killed 5 others, while firing rockets on civilians to cover it up. The Lebanese government could have avoided it all in Day 1 by giving back the kidnapped soldiers, disarming the Hizbullah militia and taking responsibility over their own destiny. Instead they chose to whine and only hate Israel more.

I don't like civilian deaths (which are accidental no matter what anyone says, if you live with a militia you can't expect to live peacefully) and I support a palestinian state but Israelis deserves a chance to live a normal life. One quarter of the Israeli population slept in bomb shelters.

There are two major roots to this conflict: One is the Israeli occupation of the palestinian territories from 1967. Most israelis support giving them back for a true peace (70%). The last five elected governments in Israel accepted it too. The second reason is the Arab world's unacceptance of Israel as a legitimate state.

People portray the founding of Israel as some giant theft of land, but it wasn't that way at all. The jews didn't come and usurp the Arabs. They bought the land fairly. They didn't come and drive the Palestinians out. The palestinians didn't exist a seperate people until Israel was created. The UN suggested a partition plan which drew the border between the Jewish and Palestinian state. The Jewish government accepted. The Palestinians rejected it and started a war. They lost.

In 2000 Israel withdrew from every inch of Lebanon. The Shebaa Farms area is a part of Syria. The Syrians, being Hizbullah's patrons, didn't want to end it's reason for existance, so they actually gave Lebanon the Shebaa Farms, even though the UN clearly said it belongs to Syria.
The current conflict lies only on the shoulders of Hizbullah and it's perpetrators. If it wasn't for that unprovoked attacked, everyone would have had a nice summer. Israel hasn't launched any offensive attacks in Lebanon since 1996.

 

[romeoondaline]

yea telll me bout it

 

[Mucuna]

Well, the arab terrorist organizations are well known.
But there was sionist terror in a not too long past, when was not an army.

There is not good side and bad side. The "good" and the "evil" does not exist there.

Try searching the files of Joseph Weitz, the director of the Jewish Agency's Colonization Department and quotes of Menachem Begin. They were proud of killing palestinian men, women and children, scaring "that people" out of the "promise land". That all happened before the creation of Israel.

Both sides did and do atrocities at each other. Let's not pretend that one of them is only an inocent victim that was always peaceful.

Both sides are losting with that. Arabs start to see an anti-muslim behavior in the world, and Israel is starting to watch the anti-semitism again. (well, both arab and jews are semitic, but you know what I mean).

Just want finish saying that we can find nice people, as well as assholes, anywhere in the world, any gender, age, religion, social condition, ethinic origen, etc.

 

[romeoondaline]

I know what u mean by the Bad side and good side that doesnt exist there

 

[romeoondaline]

Well we arabs also think what Osama Bin laden did was wrong on to the 9/11 that was sooo wrong we still dunt know y his stupidness got us to the war act he should of did the 9/11 attack on the isreals thats the target not the US

 

[romeoondaline]

Who agrees ?

 

[ridgecity]

OK.

1. Israel didn't buy the land, Since the land wasn't for sale, it was imposed for them to live there, I remember Jews were living in Red Cross ships and no one wanted them jew war refugees, so they got their sacred land back, which Palestine OWNED since about 1000 years after the crusades.

2.I'm sure Israelites don't want war but somebody in the goverment does and it doesn't matter if past prime minister were peaceful persons this newone isn't and just stabbed your neighbor.

3.Americans say Arabs protect terrorists, just as they protect their war heroes for International trial and jail. War Heroes are a nicer way of calling terrorist, just as Arabs call them martyrs. It's the same Sh*t...

4.Bin Laden didn't have anything to do with September 11, it was a excuse for America starting a war to finally get that whole region for them and this little produc called OIL that is so valuable now, that even Bush's family owes his presidency to it. Thanks to Bin Laden's oportune attack now the U.S. OWNS Afghanistan, which happens to have the biggest oleoduct in the world were Iraqi oil, which is happens to be OWNED by the U.S. also, passed each day by thousands of barrels for wertern consumers.

5. I guess the BIGGEST RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL THIS THING IS SAUDI ARABIA, since they wanna own all the Middle East and The U.S. are their puppets or more like ASSASINS in the name of freedom and the American Way!

 

[Cromat]

As someone who lives in the region, I think the conflict can be resolved and there can be peace.
Israelis and Palestinians can and do work together and live together peacefully. We talk nearly the same language, we eat the same foods, and we listen to the same music. You don't see it on the news but not everyone here hates everyone else.

The most important thing is to seperate this conflict from religion. It's a territorial conflict, not a religous war. Those who make God a part of this are the ones that continue to ruin the region. Arabs must recognize Israel's right to exist and to live peacefully, and must abandon terrorism and religous extremism. Israel must return the occupied lands in negotiations for peace, and must be more careful not to create more enemies by accidently killing civilians or mistreating Palestinians.

 

[ridgecity]

dude run for president.

 

[Mucuna]

Yeah, try to form a country not named palestine or israel, that takes all the region, for everybody.:-)

Would be, in my opinion, the perfect solution.
It coulb be Isralestine or Palesrel.:-D

 

[Cromat]

A binational state won't work. Look at Yuguslavia. It would be eaten inside and full of strife.

The solution is two independent states with revised 67 borders to better suit the reality that has been formed.
Most of the Israeli settlers in Palestinian territories live in 3 major settlement blocks close to the border that are only 3% of the West Bank. Israel should keep those, evacuate the other ones, and give the Palestinians other territories not originally part of the West Bank to make up for them, so that eventually they end up with 100% of the territories.

Jerusalem should be a shared capital. We don't want a border running through the city. A shared capital is an honest and elegant solution.
Along with that, all Palestinian prisoners would be released, and all armed organizations inside the Palestinian territories would disarm or join the national army.
The hardest part of the solution is the refugee problem.

 

[ridgecity]

you should name it Pasteline. People from pasteline are the nicest people in the World, enven nicer than "Kissing" on the region of Bavaria, Germany

 

[mthrnite]

If I may add my couple of pennies. Anyone who owns the holy handgrenade makes the rules. In the future everyone will have a holy handgrenade. Then these contested lands will be un-inhabitable, and the point will be sadly moot. I agree strongly with Cromat that religion should have no place in this territorial conflict. Unfortunately religion and "tradition" are way too useful for the people who are in charge of the war buttons.

Humans are God's chosen people and the earth is our homeland. Well... I'm an atheist, but hopefully you get my point.

If, someday, scientists invent a drug to flip the "religion switch" in our brains to "off", maybe we can figure out some distribution method, like Ice-Nine, to get it out to everyone on earth. I'm not saying it would end all wars, but it would remove the ability to hide behind the holy books when arguing over sh*t. I think that would go a long way towards achieving a happier planet. Lets all pray for that, shall we?

 

[VVoltz]

MMmmm... I'm thinking of practicing Necromancy as a regular hobbie so I'll be bringing back to life random threads as this one!!!

 

[iTech]

MMmmm... I'm thinking of practicing Necromancy as a regular hobbie so I'll be bringing back to life random threads as this one!!!

That's it - you're the fed!

Seriously, I've caught many official Israeli propagandists in several webforums during the start of the most recent Israel-Lebanon conflict. Israel actually has supporters whose daily tasks involve trolling webforums in an attempt to sway public opinion towards a pro-Israeli mindset. (Megaphone)
Feds from western countries are also very interested in what the general public thinks about Israel (since they put so much time, money and effort in convincing you Israel is slightly more than just The Great Whore of Babylon).
I'm positive they secretly monitor public opinion before deciding on something that will benefit Israel and harm Palestine.

Maybe there's something new coming up - an attack perhaps?
Perhaps resurrecting a dead thread on the topic of Israel is a quick way to fill up a qouta?
Ain't that right VVoltz?
Or should I say ... "Jake"?

 

[VVoltz]

Uh?

I love Ice Cream.

 

[rest0re]

jews and arabs they both stupid fuckers. i support microbes, give israel/palestine to microbes they were there first

 

[mcp2]

^^ You sound like a stupid fucker.

 

[Azimuth]

cromat, thank you!

as an arab who hears anti-Israeli shit 24/7 you are the perfect example of what I have been trying to tell ignorant arabs here. Israels want peace us much as we do, they aren't blood mongers, also arabs and jews share tons in common but all these points get drowned out by stupid muslim conspiracy theory type rants.

I am all for a unified arab/jewish nation but one thing bothers me. As the number of palestinians in the jewish state rises above those of the Israelis, Israel will have to choose between democracy or preserving its jewish state. If the arabs are allowed to vote....

once again thanks for keeping an open mind.