Is using very old language okay ?

Youkai

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Damn that took ne long to find a titel and it still sucks ... sorry ...

My Question, or lets say the topics reason is actually to ask if you think it is okay to use "old/weird" language if it is intended by style ?

Maybe I need to explain,
I did play a Game which was set in the past and the translators probably wanted to make the language sound old as well, problem was/is that they really used old words which the dictionary even listed as "not used anymore" so I really had to look up a damn lot of words to understand what's going on ... even my 60 years old dad didn't understand half of the words and the game is intended for "teenager".

For me this was soooooo bad but a friend was like "hey that's intended, I don't understand anything as well but it is good like this" ...


For me it felt so bad and he liked it and I guess there is no really right or wrong but it would be still interesting to know what you guys think, would you play a game that is mostly interesting for the story if if they used lots of "weird" words you can not understand or that sound completely wrong (even though they are right) if it is intended to be like that ?



Sadly I can not really give any actual examples as it was not in English ...
maybe this one... the word "bar" means "cash" in German but it was and probably still is possible to use it so say its "empty" but I have actually never heard anyone using it like this but in the game they do so for a German who does not know this and they say the room is "bar" of light it doesn't make sense at all
 
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Clydefrosch

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why would it not be ok?
its meant to immerse you in the story and setting. of course it gets a bit complicated when you don't know any of the words and are unable to make them out from context, but that's what it takes and some who studied languages like to show off that knowledge.

and it becomes stupid when they ignore that many times, old and newer words were used very much side by side and they literally just search and replaced a few words with older variations, so nothing sounds natural anymore.
still, if you enjoy the game, take it as a way to learn some older words. with the internet around, it really only takes a moment to find all meanings of any word after all. if you don't even enjoy the game though, just move on to the next, its not like this is very widespread.
 

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It depends on how far back you want to go.
500 years ago, you would be able to understand the people but with some difficulties.
Go back a thousand years and the language differs vastly from what you're used to.
Making it very difficult to comprehend.

Ofcourse, games/series have subtitles which counteracts pretty much everything said above.
But I must admit, I like the aspect of using period correct language and speech in games/series/films n what not.

I frequently use slang from the 20's-80's, saying I'd be opposed to it would be hypocritical.
 
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Youkai

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I know in a lot of series they try to make it sound "old" but at least they try to use common words most of the time so that you can understand what is going on.

And the words I had problems mit probably were used even "only" 100 years ago but as it is not about the way to speak but about whole worda that not really exist anymore it was unbearable for me.

I know in english they sometimes use "thy" and "thou" and these kind of words to show it is supposed to be special language but these are at least easy to understand even for someone whose first language is not English.



I just looked up some good exemples for english words that are not in use anymore so just imagine they would write texts that include these following and more :

Snollygoster
Zwodder
Woofits
Grufeling
Quomodocunquize
Shinnicked
Scurryfunge

they all sound like they are just some made up words from harry potter xD
....
https://www.google.co.jp/amp/s/www.stylist.co.uk/life/30-words-we-wish-were-still-in-use/48086/amp
 
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FAST6191

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Should you use heavy slang in games?


It may also depend where you are. Germany in your case has a rather short history as these things go (what was Austria-Hungary, Prussia, Confederation of the Rhine...) and even today the different regions have very very distinct dialects and occasionally even almost unintelligible to hear some tell it. If in your case they would be dipping into really old language of another region then they might be hard.

More generally. Do you need your game to be understood and people to carry on? Maybe stick more with contemporary language. Do you intend it as an exploration of the old language? Do that then. Pepper a few terms in for style? Be careful but can be done. Do something to get your players to go look something up, possibly as a puzzle or as a curio? Fine by me.

Also relevant
 
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sarkwalvein

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Make something sound old, sure.
Make it true to the real thing... that would be a problem.

I guess some English speaker trying to read English with weird grammar and multiple cases from pre-Shakespeare days would have as many problems as I would with weird Spanish from pre-Cervantes days.

I am quite sure the desired outcome is not for the player to go take lessons on old languages.
 

Youkai

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Should you use heavy slang in games?


It may also depend where you are. Germany in your case has a rather short history as these things go (what was Austria-Hungary, Prussia, Confederation of the Rhine...) and even today the different regions have very very distinct dialects and occasionally even almost unintelligible to hear some tell it. If in your case they would be dipping into really old language of another region then they might be hard.

More generally. Do you need your game to be understood and people to carry on? Maybe stick more with contemporary language. Do you intend it as an exploration of the old language? Do that then. Pepper a few terms in for style? Be careful but can be done. Do something to get your players to go look something up, possibly as a puzzle or as a curio? Fine by me.

Also relevant




wow, yeah these two examples seem very well chosen.
No Idea if a Native speaker could actually understand but for me both are like some alien language XD

I can understand storywriters want to use stuff like this from time to time but when people can not understand what is going on any more or only get half of the meaning it is not so good.
 
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x65943

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wow, yeah these two examples seem very well chosen.
No Idea if a Native speaker could actually understand but for me both are like some alien language XD

I can understand storywriters want to use stuff like this from time to time but when people can not understand what is going on any more or only get half of the meaning it is not so good.
I could understand most of it as a native English speaker - of course if it was written I think I could have gotten all of it. But with spoken word if something doesn't immediately make sense you often don't have time to sit at that word and think about it.
 

FAST6191

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wow, yeah these two examples seem very well chosen.
No Idea if a Native speaker could actually understand but for me both are like some alien language XD

I can understand storywriters want to use stuff like this from time to time but when people can not understand what is going on any more or only get half of the meaning it is not so good.

The first is an example of something called cockney rhyming slang. Its popularity and knowledge of it among the UK populace at large varies dramatically with time periods and person to person. That clip was from a lower budget Guy Ritchie film, a guy who can be said to almost fetishise the 1920s-80s London gangster aesthetic (and wow do I feel like a dick for constructing such a sentence) and that scene was deliberately over the top. There might be a few that can hold a conversation in it, almost certainly nearly all in or from the relevant parts of London, but generally speaking most might only know a few terms -- apples and pears being stairs, china plate being mate... https://londontopia.net/londonism/f...-100-cockney-rhyming-slang-words-and-phrases/
and of course my personal favourite of Berkshire hunt, commonly shortened to berk, which is slang for cunt. http://www.cockneyrhymingslang.co.uk/slang/berkshire_hunt

The second is an older style of English. It is often mocked, or used in mock form would perhaps be a more accurate term as indeed it was for that character in the game. I can't actually say how accurate that it is as far as historical things go as my readings in English tend to only go back to the 1700s or so and it is more or less still the same, give or take the long S. As far as understanding goes was more or less fine for me even without subs, would have to pay attention but fine. That said a lot of those words, or words in longer phrases https://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/62/messages/91.html , are still around but used sarcastically or for emphasis see whence at the end of the song, forth as in go forth and multiply/go forth and conquer, whenceforth then being a contraction. I imagine most native speakers would intuitively drop the "(e)st" and "eth" parts of words and with that you have modern English most of the time.

Pronunciation wise it is probably pretty poor, but reconstructionist efforts are a somewhat newer thing


If you want to go even further back skip to about 1:45 (though the whole video is good stuff)

and as I am just firing off the videos


Amusingly if you are a native German speaker that might actually get a tiny bit easier (English being a Germanic language and all that).
 
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Youkai

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these examples sound like a completely different language, if you would use this for any books or games, especially ones intended for a young audience (probably even with old) noone would get it
 

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