Is there a way to insert the leaked Zero no Kiseki fan translation into the EVO port?

Discussion in 'PS Vita - Hacking & Homebrew' started by moonblood666, Jun 13, 2017.

  1. moonblood666
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    moonblood666 Advanced Member

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    As some might know a very early BETA of the Zero no Kiseki fan translation has been leaked, fully translated. I don't want to make this a discussion on the quality of this early draft, but rather about the possibility of seeing something similar to what has been done with the EVO port of Sora FC.
     
    Last edited by moonblood666, Jun 13, 2017


  2. Burai-ha

    Burai-ha Advanced Member

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    Sora no Kiseki FC needed a lot of work and it was completed in several months.
    It's not worth it to spend so much time on such an awful translation, which is being edited right now.
    Not to say Xseed could still license it.
     
  3. moonblood666
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    moonblood666 Advanced Member

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    My line of though was that this is a translation for the PSP version, while the Sora FC EVO translation used the PC port translation of the game. Maybe The PSP version transltion is much easier to implement than a PC translation. I mean, it's already a patch in the first place.
     
    Last edited by moonblood666, Jun 13, 2017
  4. Zander1995

    Zander1995 GBAtemp Regular

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    Actually the leaked translation was a separate (awful) translation that was completely abandoned and then leaked on 4chan.
    The one that's being edited right now was translated from the ground up completely separate from the PSP fanpatch that got leaked.

    Edit: I was wrong, the better translation is based on the old translation, and this version of the patch was leaked without their permission.

    It's not worth it. There's a much better translation coming out by a completely different group and will patch both the PSP and PC versions of the game.
    The fact that it was a PSP patch has nothing to do with it. The Evo games use a far more updated version of the scripting system than the PSP games and thus aren't easily compatible. It'll be just as much work as the FC to FC Evo port project was, so there's no point in using the inferior translation when a better one will come out.
     
    Last edited by Zander1995, Jun 24, 2017
  5. superninja2525

    superninja2525 Newbie

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    There is no eta on that version as it could be 2 years from now for all we know plus I don't think that team mentioned supporting vita. There is enough public knowledge to dump the English text from the psp version and inject it into the psvita version but the time it will take to QA is the issue if you don't mind risking the game crashing or the text being misaligned in some cases.
     
  6. Zander1995

    Zander1995 GBAtemp Regular

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    And?
    This patch that was leaked on 4chan is the unfinished completely unedited version of their patch. It was released without their permission.
    It would be incredibly disrespectful to the team to make a PC patch using this as a base when it's part of their work in the first place.
     
  7. superninja2525

    superninja2525 Newbie

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    All I'm saying is that it is doable and it wouldn't hurt to have the tools ready for the proper translation reducing the time frame.
     
  8. Zander1995

    Zander1995 GBAtemp Regular

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    The current project already has the tools necessary to translate the PC version and *are* doing so right now. And there are already tools to port the PC translations to Vita, created by the project lead of the FC Evo translation port. Trying to port this translation that was leaked without their permission to any other version of the game is incredibly disrespectful.

    Warning: Spoilers inside!
     
    Last edited by Zander1995, Jun 24, 2017
  9. moonblood666
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    moonblood666 Advanced Member

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    Why would this show disrespect towards the current team? You are contradicting your own posts, where you stated that this Beta has no affiliation to the current project. So who is disrespected then?

    Nonetheless: The Beta is a draft from the old team that was taken over by the current one. So there is no obligation to ask the current team for permission nor would it be disrespectfull towards them, they did not create this draft, they are just using it or rather a later version of it for their own project. If their edited version leaked, well, that would be another story.

    Stop twisting the truth, pls.
     
    Last edited by moonblood666, Jun 24, 2017
  10. Zander1995

    Zander1995 GBAtemp Regular

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    I was mistaken in that I believed it was done by a different group entirely, but it was not. The members of the old team are working with the current team. The only difference is there's a few new members and a new leader for the project. The release of the "beta" patch was done without any of their permission and it is *still* their work.

    It is disrespectful towards them because this is still their work. Members of the old team are working with the current team to fix the translation and translate Ao and they never wanted this patch released.

    I'm not twisting the truth, it's still incredibly disrespectful.
     
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  11. GHANMI

    GHANMI GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    My understanding is that some of the old draft authors were okay with the old patch release as it was going nowhere, and that the translation is being redone by other translators. Some of the same programmers are involved, but that's about it.

    One of them even chimed in the old thread - which you sabotaged, is it your plan for this new thread as well? Weren't you chasing people off that thread and telling them to start new ones, then why are you following them around and wanting them to no longer discuss this patch?

    We get it, you hate thing, and want it not to exist.
    But for someone talking so much about respect, you're seriously lacking any will to show some to people discussing fan projects and trying to get new ones started as opposed to your shitposting and you wanting LESS things done just because YOU don't like it.
    If you hate this translation so much, you could simply, I don't know, ignore it?
    I personally hate licorice candy, but do I try to get factories producing it to shut up or harass shopkeepers to stop selling it? Or do I do the sensible thing and remove the licorice candy from MY life and ACCEPT that other people in this world might tolerate or even enjoy licorice candy?
     
  12. Burai-ha

    Burai-ha Advanced Member

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    He is not warning people just because he personally hates that translation.
    If an eventual "port" is released, it could very well happen that some people who don't follow the scene everyday will see that shitty translation as a "normal" release. Rarely a fantranslation is totally changed from the ground up, so those people will either play, teeth clenched, or completely resign. Few people are ok with that quality, whether you like it or not. So yes, your statements are surely selfish, since you would cause damage just for the sake of playing a very bad translation.
    If you still want to continue, good luck in finding some available hackers. No grudges, really.
     
    Last edited by Burai-ha, Jun 24, 2017
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  13. GHANMI

    GHANMI GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    "Few people" would play a subpar translation of the still Japan-only fourth Sora no Kiseki game as opposed to nothing at all?
    Japanese>Chinese>English-subbed youtube video views tell another tale.
    Contrary to what you or Zander1995 think, not every single person share your tastes. Of all the forums to pick to post this, you chose the hub of unfinished menu translations of various PSP games, translating the menu and nothing else.
    At the very least, this early patch is an enhanced menu translation with an almost complete translation, and not a machine-translated one either.

    And why are you so concerned about what other people might play and see?
    Why do you get to be the one setting the quality standards for what they should or should not play instead of them?

    Do you think people working on porting this shitty translation to the Evo version is less people working on the other superior patch?
    The other patch (the grammatically correct one without the missing details) is not even complete yet, much less possible to be ported.

    No dear, even if you chased away all prospective game modders and people discussing how to do this (with an already derailed first page, good job on that front), all of that talent isn't going to be magically funneled to the superior translation. The "Evo Zero patch + inferior translation" patch wouldn't exist at all, and there's no guarantee another patch for the Evo version (which sucks) + superior translation will exist either because it's not a respectful version to begin with.
    This just leads to less things existing. Just because you wouldn't see yourself playing something but still feel the need to get everyone to share your self-imposed gaming blackout. How self-centered can you get anymore?

    It's okay to have your personal preferences. It's fucking not okay to try to sabotage people doing their own hobby projects you don't like just because they're against your personal preferences - no one has the obligation to cater to your standards, even if you waved your wallet at them (which you're not) you're not entitled the right to tell them to stop whatever they're doing.

    The Evo versions suck, and no one bothers with them. FC was the very first time it happened, and it was just a file swap with very minor changes.
    They're never getting a serious quality translation anyways, either official or fan-made.
    The new Zero translators (bless them) hate those versions and certainly aren't preparing a secret translation patch for them as you might be deluding yourself.

    There's nothing being prepared for Evo Zero right now. And in this discussion someone proposes preparing one such thing with what's available right now, and you lots are trying to shut him down and kill the idea in the conception phase, and derail the topic because of your opinions about the translation's quality.
    If there's anyone causing needless damage, it's you.

    It's very possible, but I don't own a Vita to test the file swapping myself.
    Not pure fileswapping granted, it might require manual hex editing since the sizes won't match and there's additional dialogue in the Evo version.

    Why don't you try locating a given script file in both versions (JP Zero PSP, JP+unfinished translation Zero PSP, JP Evo Zero) and compare their contents with a hex editor just as a learning experience?
     
    Last edited by GHANMI, Jun 24, 2017
  14. Burai-ha

    Burai-ha Advanced Member

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    You should inform yourself better.
    1. The person who released the patch for FC Evo has stated several times that he is willing to port and patch all the Evolution versions, Zero and Ao included. This person is, at the moment, the most(and maybe only) reliable hacker doing such a job. And he will not(ask him if you want) use this subpar translation. Why? Because not only there is a better one(it's not only grammar) coming, but also because, *drum roll*, Xseed could release the games officially.
    2. And you know why would it be disrespectful? Because you people are only interested in asserting your fictitious rights. There are people working HARD on a very improved translation, and yet you want other people to release something objectively worse which will surely diminish the value of their work. Because you said it yourself, and I was too optimistic before: people who cannot wait(I don't blame them) will make compromises. Now you'll say:-"But I don't give a fuck about the people who are translating a game I enjoy"!. But we, who care for the quality and for the hard-working translators, will always stand up for them.

    P.S. Evo ports are not(only) about swapping files. Months of work are needed.
     
    Last edited by Burai-ha, Jun 24, 2017
  15. moonblood666
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    moonblood666 Advanced Member

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    This is ridicolous. I play the Zero beta leak right now and i defend it for being not as bad as some people say, but i also support the current fan translation as much as i can (spreading their project page for instance). Their work is their work though. It should stand for itself and uppon release people will play it, even if they already played the beta leak. Take the PSP version of Trails in the Sky FC for instance: For the PC version XSEED have rewritten entire dialogue segments. I know of many fans who bought the game (PC) again even though they already own the PSP version. The Legend of Heroes fandom is incredibly loyal, you know?

    Not related to LoH, but look back on old translations: Say something like Rudra no Hihou. The first english patch was a retranslation from a french team, but years after the initial flawed release Aeon Genesis retranslated the whole thing. The new version stood on its own and people played their new version.Why is it that suddenly the once friendly and open minded fan translation scene became such a sh*thole of fanboys?

    The fanboyism for the current team is truly sickening and i'm sure they as well are irritated by it.
     
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  16. Zander1995

    Zander1995 GBAtemp Regular

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    This patch is the same team's work under a different name and leader, and it was released without their permission when they *didn't want it released*. This isn't a retranslation, this is the case of a team leaving the old project to start it under a new name.

    I'm not telling you to stop playing it, but get off your high horse and respect the team.
    You asking for the translation to be ported to other versions of the game is incredibly disrespectful and yet you continue to do so, defending yourself by claiming you support the team. Your actions speak louder than your words, and you are actively disrespecting them and their work, and yes this patch *is* their work. Years old and unedited, but still their work.
     
  17. Burai-ha

    Burai-ha Advanced Member

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    There's a difference between an official release and a fan translation. You say that people who already bought the PSP version also supported the PC one. Aside from the fact that many Steam sales didn't come from hardcore fans, how many of these loyal customers, after having paid for the Steam version, actually replayed a 50 hours long game? I don't know, maybe the 10% of an already very small group? What the fan translators want is people actually using their translation. We're in 2017, and this dedicated, loyal fanbase you talk about is even smaller, in percentage, than before. And you are somehow creating two separate teams, the one who made the leaked patch and the other which is in competition with the first. But guess what, they're mostly the same people! There's only one team, with some members who pulled out. I don't even know how you can speak of fanboyism where there aren't even two different teams. If we are fanboys, who are you defending then? The members who leaked this without permission? Wow, that's such a "friendly and open minded" thing to do.
     
  18. moonblood666
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    moonblood666 Advanced Member

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    Show me proof that the same people are affiliated with the new team. I followed the last teams work alot and the followng post made it clear that it was a complete takeover: https://heroesoflegend.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=308

    The only one who would be disrespected is the translator of the beta/leak content because it's his work.

    BTW: If anything, then the above link feels incredibly disrespectfull or arrogant. Many people were pretty unhappy about this developement back then as the old translation was scheduled to be released in december 2016. And between the beta and the 2016 version is about a year of editing and polishing. Of cause we don't know how far advanced the project was, but i'm sure it was pretty advanced. Yet the project is in the hands of the other team for more than half a year now and god knows when it will be released.

    The leak is out and no one should feel guilty for defending it or asking for it to be ported to other systems/versions (and yes i'm still saying the beta version is absolutely fine for a first playthrough and not much worse than most other commercial translations/localisations... Say Persona 5). And believe me or not, i'm all for the current teams work and i will chekc it out, but i'm not devoted to anyone. I'm on no ones side. The whole translation drama leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
     
    Last edited by moonblood666, Jun 25, 2017
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  19. GHANMI

    GHANMI GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    So much wrong in this post.

    1/
    Xseed said they will never release the Evo versions because of how much of a legal nightmare they are (they'd have to license it from not only Falcom, but also Kadokawa and Chara Anime).
    Romhacking isn't a talent exclusive to only one person. I personally could do this, if I owned a Vita and felt strongly about this (except I hate the Evo versions).

    zerogmonkey's translation for Zero exists.
    The new team's translation doesn't yet and may or may not be released, and they made it clear they threw the whole script and kicked the old translator and restarted the project.
    Contrary to what you said, the new team does not intend to translate the Evo version.
    Much less Xseed's official translation which isn't even announced, and if it's announced the later translation will be cancelled. Leaving us with... nothing for the PSP version but zerogmonkey's translation.

    You hate zerogmonkey's translation, we get it.
    Some people tolerate it, just like with the older translations.
    You hate how people might enjoy this translation.
    What's not okay is that you're trying to sabotage discussion about this translation and people reusing it for Evo translation.
    You'd rather people play nothing than that they play something you don't like.

    You want people to join on your self-imposed gaming blackout JUST BECAUSE the current options don't satisfy you.
    I don't buy that the new translators are as unreasonable as you are to be angered knowing that people play translations other than theirs.

    Fine, I have one solution for you.
    When the Zero Evo patch reusing zerogmonkey's translation comes out released by anyone (it doesn't have to be the same person behind Evo FC), don't play it.
    It can't be that hard, isn't it?

    If you seriously want less new projects for the Vita and the PSP, you're just being an unproductive asshole that wants the scene to be even less productive than it already is right now.

    2/ The new fan-translation team's work is a separate thing from the old fan-translation.
    They kicked the old members out, but do they have to be imprisoned and kept off the internet and their work never released or enjoyed so that their new work is appreciated?
    You really think the new fan translation is that bad that no one can enjoy it unless forced to, and all other alternatives to playing it closed off?

    You think that when two people are working on the same thing and you prefer one, it's okay to try and sabotage the other one?
    Are you the kind of person that tries to destroy things just because of a mild preference to something else, and not even outright hate?
    Do you want that badly to control what other people romhack, or what other people play?
    Are you going to start burning UMDs and taking down ISO sites for the old Namco translation for the Gahrav trilogy so that no one ever gets to play the games in English ever again?

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    @moonblood666
    The derail attempts in this thread are so transparent.
    How about you do something productive with your Vita and try to find the script files in the Evo version game image?
    Go through the files with a hex editor (like Crystaltile2 on Shift-JIS mode) until you find Japanese text.
     
  20. Burai-ha

    Burai-ha Advanced Member

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    The hundreds of questions used to hide your lack of arguments won't help you. You're just repeating the same things all over again, each time, but with different words. This alone shows that you just want to have the last word, rather than actually reasoning.
    It's fucking obvious there are thousands of hackers out there, but guess what? A thing won't be magically done just because it's relatively easy. There are millions of easy mods, ports etc. that no one ever picked up. This does not mean that this easy tasks can't be done by anyone. That's the case with the Evo version: over one year, only one person(he doesn't even have a full-fledged team) showed up. Do you think that other interested romhackers just hid for months, waiting for the perfect moment to come up with a surprise announcement? Hell, no.
    But that's just a part of it: you're so cocky about your non-existent arguments that you didn't even read properly what I wrote. I never said that Xseed or the new team will translate the Evo version, I said that an official localisation(PC) is possible. And the only hacker we got NOW(aren't you the one saying we should think about what we have?) is waiting for that. So please, read things through next time. If you looked at the old FC Evolution thread, you would see that I was one of the most ""strong" supporters. So yes, saying that I don't want any new projects for the Vita is a straight-up lie.
    Your arguments are also flawed at another level. I am deciding what other people have to play, I'm destroying things I don't like... What the fuck are you even saying? Does it seem to you like I'm threatening hackers not to port this? Does it seem to you like I am preventing this from happening? Did I ever insult people who would play this supposed port? Hell, no. I even said I don't blame them. I'm just saying that for me shit isn't better than nothing. I'm expressing an opinion, without harming anything in any way. And yet you're trying to invalidate my arguments with an argumentum ad hominem. And let me say this, you're just a broken record.
     
    Last edited by Burai-ha, Jun 25, 2017