Homebrew Is it possible to run MSXds through TWiLight Menu in 3DS?

[Thee_Stranger]

Or does it require an R4 card? Sorry, am a n00b and have just discovered that this is apparently a "thing".

I've always wanted to play SD Snatcher. This may be a golden opportunity.

However, the DS MSX Emulator I'm seeing was apparently last updated in 2012. So, that's pretty old...

Does anyone have any experience emulating MSX on the DS, and any information on how well it works, or smooth it runs?

EDIT: Well, that clears it up. To answer my own question: Yes, it is very possible, but it is much more of pain in the ass to get working than any of the other DS emulators I've seen. The emulator requies that you independently find and acquire 9 different BIOS files, and these files are quite obscure and not at all easy to find if you don't know where to look. Big shoutout to wavemotion for his invaluable assistance with this. If anyone happens to stumble across this thread that's having trouble with this, PM me.

 

[Kwyjor]

Wouldn't it be easier and faster to just try it and find out..?

You may need to use the "RAM disk" functionality in TWiLight Menu.

 

[CoolMe]

Quoting @wavemotion from his experience with it, as i don't have any exp with it personally.
Edit: OK, see below the quotation @Kwyjor provided.

 

[Kwyjor]

Quoting @wavemotion from his experience with it

I think you copy-pasted the wrong section.

MSXDS

Emulation of the MSX, MSX2 and MSX2+ - this system was hugely popular in Japan and parts of Europe but less so in the US. It has a massive number of classic Konami, Compile and ASCII ports for the home gaming enthusiast.

Emulation: Is near perfect across the board. The MSX will run fine on a DS but MSX2 and MSX2+ emulation will start to slow down on the older DS but will still run fine on the DSi hardware using a loader line TWL++ or similar.

Sound: Near perfect. Really crisp without lag or other strange artifacts.

Screen Handling:
MSX screen resolution is 256x192 and is a pixel-perfect match for the DS/DSi hardware.

Unfortunately MSX2 and MSX2+ have various modes which often run at a vertical resolution of 212 meaning that we’ve got about 20 pixels that need to go “somewhere”. The emulator provides 3 scaling options – you can squish the screen which will drop 20 pixel rows as it sees fit… or you can make the top 20 pixels or bottom 20 pixels show on the lower screen. Since many games use the top of the screen for high-score or status, having those 20 pixels show on the bottom is actually rather ingenious and works pretty well. Unfortunately where it cuts of the display isn’t always ideal – would love just a little bit of ability to tweak what gets cut off and shown on the lower screen.

 

[CoolMe]

I think you copy-pasted the wrong section.

Lol, i don't why it failed to quote the text the first time, and i was sure i quoted the same text the 2nd time.

 

[wavemotion]

@FluBBa 's excellent S8DS will run most MSX1 games fairly well. A few odd sound issues with the most recent release (e.g. Konami's Twinbee bell doesn't "ring") and the occasional odd-use-VDP won't run (e.g. Trilobyte's Uridium). But what it does run, it runs really well - full speed and looks great. S8DS is primarily targeted for the Sega Master System but it also covers SG1000, MSX1 and Colecovision (up to 32K standard carts).

I have access to MSXDS source code - with the promise not to distribute it until I can get it cleaned up ... and, of course, the Coleco and MSX (and SMS) are all close cousins with them using a number of similar (or same) off-the-shelf standard chips for sound, video, CPU, etc.

But honestly I'm a little burnt out right now. And I've already (lightly) stepped on FluBBa's toes a bit with ColecoDS and really don't want to encroach any further - especially given what we have is highly usable.

 

[Thee_Stranger]

Wouldn't it be easier and faster to just try it and find out..?

You may need to use the "RAM disk" functionality in TWiLight Menu.

Not necessarily, no. And there aren't really specific directions on how to use it via TWiLight Menu. And I don't think I've ever even seen a RAM disk option or functionality in there, so I figure it's probably better to check with the experts first.

 

[wavemotion]

Not necessarily, no. And there aren't really specific directions on how to use it via TWiLight Menu. And I don't think I've ever even seen a RAM disk option or functionality in there, so I figure it's probably better to check with the experts first.

I’ve used this home brew menu system for a long time and I still don’t know how to set one up. Admittedly, I’m a pretty simple guy by most tech—y measures

 

[Kwyjor]

And there aren't really specific directions on how to use it via TWiLight Menu.

Well, I mean, why wouldn't you expect it to work just like any other homebrew via TWiLight Menu?

And I don't think I've ever even seen a RAM disk option or functionality in there, so I figure it's probably better to check with the experts first.

https://wiki.ds-homebrew.com/twilightmenu/creating-ram-disks

 

[Thee_Stranger]

I’ve used this home brew menu system for a long time and I still don’t know how to set one up. Admittedly, I’m a pretty simple guy by most tech—y measures

If you're a simple guy in the tech world, I'm pretty much a neanderthal. xD

 

[Thee_Stranger]

Well, I mean, why wouldn't you expect it to work just like any other homebrew via TWiLight Menu?


https://wiki.ds-homebrew.com/twilightmenu/creating-ram-disks

Because I have no idea how any of this stuff actually works. It may as well be voodoo magic as far as I'm concerned. I just follow the directions, and pray. I don't know if TWiLight Menu is only compatible with certain things, or if I would have to install something else to get it working or optimize it, etc.

Thanks for the link.

EDIT: And I should add -- now that I've taken your advice to simply try it myself and find out -- it was NOT easier, nor faster. The MSX is a much more complicated and difficult system to emulate on the DS than anything else I've seen so far. The particular emulator I've chosen to use has sent me on a wild turd hunt for 9 different files, one of which is seemingly impossible to find. And I have to store certain files in TWiLight, and certain other files in the root directory. Everything else was just download the emulator, download the BIOS, download the ROM, stick 'em all in TWiLight, and go. Not the case here. And I can't get it working.

 

[Thee_Stranger]

@FluBBa 's excellent S8DS will run most MSX1 games fairly well. A few odd sound issues with the most recent release (e.g. Konami's Twinbee bell doesn't "ring") and the occasional odd-use-VDP won't run (e.g. Trilobyte's Uridium). But what it does run, it runs really well - full speed and looks great. S8DS is primarily targeted for the Sega Master System but it also covers SG1000, MSX1 and Colecovision (up to 32K standard carts).

I have access to MSXDS source code - with the promise not to distribute it until I can get it cleaned up ... and, of course, the Coleco and MSX (and SMS) are all close cousins with them using a number of similar (or same) off-the-shelf standard chips for sound, video, CPU, etc.

But honestly I'm a little burnt out right now. And I've already (lightly) stepped on FluBBa's toes a bit with ColecoDS and really don't want to encroach any further - especially given what we have is highly usable.

Nice. And yeah, that's understandable you're burnt out with as hard as you've been going on all the other emulators. But what would you say the best DS emulator for the MSX2 would be? My primary interest here is SD Snatcher patched to English, and I guess that's the MSX2. Anything else I happen to download for it would just be fluff.

 

[wavemotion]

For MSX2 - definitely try MSXDS. It’s not perfect but it gets the job done.

 

[Thee_Stranger]

For MSX2 - definitely try MSXDS. It’s not perfect but it gets the job done.

Well, that is what I went with. However, I can't get SD Snatcher -- or any disk-based games -- running for the life of me. It just hangs up on the BASIC OS. I had to track down 9 different files for the MSXds emulator, and while I've seemingly found them all, only 2 of the files I found seem to have the checksums that the emulator finds agreeable:



Don't know how that effects anything, or what. I downloaded and tested a couple cartridge-based games, and those all actually work.

I'm a complete layman to the MSX, but have done a little digging, and apparently these disk-based games required a sound cartridge to run. Upon checking the system requirements for this SD Snatcher English translation I'm trying to run, it either needs MSX2 with 64kB RAM and the special sound cartridge, or an optional "mapper version" with 128kB RAM (mapped) & any SCC/SCC-I sound cartridge. None of the ROMs I've downloaded contained any files for this sound cartridge. Just the three floppy disks. There doesn't even seem to be any slot on the emulator for a sound cartridge, so I have no clue. This is apparently what I'm working with for RAM on the MSX upon boot-up:



I have no idea if that 128kB of required RAM pertains to "Video RAM" or "User RAM". And when I toggle on MSX2+, the BASIC OS doesn't even pop up. It just hangs on a blank blue screen.

What an esoteric little machine the MSX was.

 

[Kwyjor]

It would be useful to be clarify what problems are related to MSX emulation in general and not to MSXDS specifically.

So, to be clear: are you capable of running this game on a PC-based emulator already?

 

[Thee_Stranger]

It would be useful to be clarify what problems are related to MSX emulation in general and not to MSXDS specifically.

So, to be clear: are you capable of running this game on a PC-based emulator already?

I have not downloaded an MSX emulator or tested any of these disk-based games on my PC as of yet, but I will. Am currently out and about at the moment.

Also, do you think that "RAM disk" functionality in TWiLight Menu that you mentioned would help at all? I'm sure it couldn't hurt, and I was planning on doing it anyway... just hadn't gotten around to it after the wild turd hunt for 9 files that have seemingly been largely scrubbed from the internet.

Thinking it's possibly a RAM issue. Either that, or I have to relocate 7 of those 9 files/drivers with the exact checksums the emulator wants. I'm thinking the Game ROMs themselves are likely solid, as all the cartridge-based MSX ROMs I downloaded from there worked.

 

[Kwyjor]

Also, do you think that "RAM disk" functionality in TWiLight Menu that you mentioned would help at all? I'm sure it couldn't hurt, and I was planning on doing it anyway... just hadn't gotten around to it after the wild turd hunt for 9 files that have seemingly been largely scrubbed from the internet.

As it says on the page that I linked to: "Some DS homebrew are incapable of properly accessing the SD card filesystem." As I understand it (and I could be mistaken) homebrew that was written with the purpose of reading files stored on an SD card in a flashcart (like an R4) may not be equally capable of reading files that are stored on a 3DS SD. That is the purpose of a RAM disk: it simulates a more conventional filesystem.

 

[Thee_Stranger]

As it says on the page that I linked to: "Some DS homebrew are incapable of properly accessing the SD card filesystem." As I understand it (and I could be mistaken) homebrew that was written with the purpose of reading files stored on an SD card in a flashcart (like an R4) may not be equally capable of reading files that are stored on a 3DS SD. That is the purpose of a RAM disk: it simulates a more conventional filesystem.

Gotcha. Well, it turns out I didn't need it, afterall. The issue was the invalid files/checksums. Can confirm MSX emulation works via TWiLight Menu, if you're willing to jump through a few more hoops than usual.

Thanks all, for all your help.

 

[MrMissingNo]

Hey guys, I need some help.

So, I got the correct BIOS and I can finally play MSX games, games run perfectly fine, but when I tried to play Metal Gear or Metal Gear 2 (MSX2 games) the only thing that I got was this beautiful black screen, I don't know if it is the roms that I'm using or I'm missing something.

 

[Kwyjor]

I don't know if it is the roms that I'm using

As per the posts above (you did read the other posts, right?) the way to figure that out would be to see if you can use them on a PC-based emulator.