Hacking Is it easy to make Gamecube games run on the Wii U?

[trumpet-205]

Well, Wind Waker runs at 1080p, so I would never say never. More than likely, Nintendo will release some gamecube games as downloadable content running at 1080p. There is nothing actually stopping a gamecube emulation engine from internally rendering polygons at 1080p. It is just a question of someone having access to the Wii U-mode hardware (or a hack workaround for vWii) and coding the proper emulation engine.

Considering that there are two "emulators" for the gamecube out for the Wii, it is hardly unreasonable that someday we might see gamecube games rendered at 1080p on the Wii U. I would not hold my breath, but this could help with the vector stretching.

Nintendo already did it with Windwaker and I bet we will see downloadable content that renders internally at 1080p, even if they don't add new textures or features.

Wind Waker HD is a remake. Remake means game itself has been modified and recompiled. It is no longer a GameCube game, but a Wii U game.

 

[calmwaters]

Wind Waker HD is a remake.

You mean Wind Waker XD.

 

[Wisenheimer]

Wind Waker HD is a remake. Remake means game itself has been modified and recompiled. It is no longer a GameCube game, but a Wii U game.

I really do not want to get into a semantic debate. I do not expect every Gamecube VC release to get the full remake treatment that Wind Waker recieved but I expect their VC engine will probably at least render the polygons and textures at 1080p and they might include things such as enhanced textures and extra goodies, much as other game companies did on their Xbox and PS2 downloadable content releases for the other consoles.

 

[trumpet-205]

I really do not want to get into a semantic debate. I do not expect every Gamecube VC release to get the full remake treatment that Wind Waker recieved but I expect their VC engine will probably at least render the polygons and textures at 1080p and they might include things such as enhanced textures and extra goodies, much as other game companies did on their Xbox and PS2 downloadable content releases for the other consoles.

VC games are rendered in 480p or 480i then stretched to 1080p. They are not rendered in 1080p, just like PS2 Classics, PS1 games on PS3, PSP games on PS Vita, etc.

 

[the_randomizer]

Well, Wind Waker runs at 1080p, so I would never say never. More than likely, Nintendo will release some gamecube games as downloadable content running at 1080p. There is nothing actually stopping a gamecube emulation engine from internally rendering polygons at 1080p. It is just a question of someone having access to the Wii U-mode hardware (or a hack workaround for vWii) and coding the proper emulation engine.

Considering that there are two "emulators" for the gamecube out for the Wii, it is hardly unreasonable that someday we might see gamecube games rendered at 1080p on the Wii U. I would not hold my breath, but this could help with the vector stretching.

Nintendo already did it with Windwaker and I bet we will see downloadable content that renders internally at 1080p, even if they don't add new textures or features.

The processing power to render or scale Gamecube/Wii to 1080p on the Wii U requires a lot. Dolphin is the only route.

 

[calmwaters]

I really do not want to get into a semantic debate. I do not expect every Gamecube VC release to get the full remake treatment that Wind Waker recieved but I expect their VC engine will probably at least render the polygons and textures at 1080p and they might include things such as enhanced textures and extra goodies, much as other game companies did on their Xbox and PS2 downloadable content releases for the other consoles.

So... you want Nintendo to release rehashes of their GameCube games for the Wii U in high definition... ...and GameCube games were never on the Virtual Console; they only went up to N64 since GameCube's were already compatible with those Wiis. Nintendo doesn't do rehashes of their games like Activision does with their Call of Duty series. Wind Waker XD is the first exception and hopefully it'll be the last. I believe this is the Zelda game they will release for this system, not a new one. From what I heard, Skyward Sword was pretty easy for the Zelda fanatics.

 

[Wisenheimer]

VC games are rendered in 480p or 480i then stretched to 1080p. They are not rendered in 1080p, just like PS2 Classics, PS1 games on PS3, PSP games on PS Vita, etc.

I do not have a Wii U yet, but my understanding is that N64 games are only available via the vWii. When they release them for the Wii U store, Nintendo should be writing an engine to render them in HD, at least I would hope.

The older engines for things like SNES games simply do not benefit from higher resolution because they mostly use sprites and not vector graphics. The only way to make Mario look less pixilated in Super Mario World is to remake all the sprites. On the other hand, gamecube and N64 games could benefit from 1080p resolution and given that N64 games were rendered in 480p on the Wii (even though a lot of them were 240x320 on the N64), I expect Nintendo will be at least bumping up the rendering to HD.

 

[Wisenheimer]

The processing power to render or scale Gamecube/Wii to 1080p on the Wii U requires a lot. Dolphin is the only route.

I sincerely doubt it. The Wii U uses the same exact processor architecture as the gamecube so gamecode does not have to be recompiled. Running gamecube games on the Wii U is very similar to running DOS games on Windows.

 

[Wisenheimer]

So... you want Nintendo to release rehashes of their GameCube games for the Wii U in high definition... ...and GameCube games were never on the Virtual Console; they only went up to N64 since GameCube's were already compatible with those Wiis. Nintendo doesn't do rehashes of their games like Activision does with their Call of Duty series. Wind Waker XD is the first exception and hopefully it'll be the last. I believe this is the Zelda game they will release for this system, not a new one. From what I heard, Skyward Sword was pretty easy for the Zelda fanatics.

I never wrote that Gamecube games were on the VC. But with external HD support built into the Wii U, Gamecube games will doubtlessly be added in some form, probably as downloadable content. Nintendo's competitors already offer downloadable xBox and PS2 games.

 

[the_randomizer]

I sincerely doubt it. The Wii U uses the same exact processor architecture as the gamecube so gamecode does not have to be recompiled. Running gamecube games on the Wii U is very similar to running DOS games on Windows.

Devolution isn't an emulator but a virtual machine or compatibility layer of sorts. The GPU still has to do extra work to scale higher resolutions.

 

[trumpet-205]

I do not have a Wii U yet, but my understanding is that N64 games are only available via the vWii. When they release them for the Wii U store, Nintendo should be writing an engine to render them in HD, at least I would hope.

The older engines for things like SNES games simply do not benefit from higher resolution because they mostly use sprites and not vector graphics. The only way to make Mario look less pixilated in Super Mario World is to remake all the sprites. On the other hand, gamecube and N64 games could benefit from 1080p resolution and given that N64 games were rendered in 480p on the Wii (even though a lot of them were 240x320 on the N64), I expect Nintendo will be at least bumping up the rendering to HD.

Uprender takes a lot of toll of system performance, which is why you generally don't see them unless absolute. For example, in the case of N64 on regular WIi, it is because no TV in the world would accept 320p, that they had to stretched it to 480i/480p.

Take PSP TV out for another example. PSP native resolution is 272p, again no TV in the world support such resolution. What Sony have done is to pad black box around 272p until overall resolution is 480p. PSP didn't have the power to uprender or upscale so Sony went with black box padding.

For Wii U, uprender may be possible for GC (due to strong similarity), but very unlikely for other platform.

 

[Wisenheimer]

Devolution isn't an emulator but a virtual machine or compatibility layer of sorts. The GPU still has to do extra work to scale higher resolutions.

The actual GPU operation is trivial. You are basically just taking something like a texture or a polygon and asking the GPU to render it in a specific resolution. If there is any "heavy lifting", it is the task of emulating the older GPU interface on the newer GPU interface, but if you have a proper understanding of the architecture, it can probably be encoded very efficiently.

The actual number of polygons on the screen in a gamecube game is a fraction of what the Wii U is capable of rendering.

 

[calmwaters]

I never wrote that Gamecube games were on the VC. But with external HD support built into the Wii U, Gamecube games will doubtlessly be added in some form, probably as downloadable content. Nintendo's competitors already offer downloadable xBox and PS2 games.

*snip* I do not expect every Gamecube VC release to get the full remake treatment that Wind Waker received but I expect their VC engine will probably at least render the polygons and textures at 1080p. They might include things such as enhanced textures and extra goodies, much as other game companies did on their Xbox and PS2 downloadable content releases for the other consoles.

Does this mean that they will release GameCube games on the Wii's Virtual Console? But the Wii U is already out; why are they thinking of releasing older games on an old system...
Welcome to the wonderful world of Nintendo, where they release original, complete games that don't require DLC; they're fine just the way they are and Nintendo knows it.
Has anyone heard of the rumor of how Microsoft is a greedy bastard company? What about Sony? I wouldn't expect it from them, but you never know...

 

[the_randomizer]

The actual GPU operation is trivial. You are basically just taking something like a texture or a polygon and asking the GPU to render it in a specific resolution. If there is any "heavy lifting", it is the task of emulating the older GPU interface on the newer GPU interface, but if you have a proper understanding of the architecture, it can probably be encoded very efficiently.

The actual number of polygons on the screen in a gamecube game is a fraction of what the Wii U is capable of rendering.

Until that happens, I'm not saying another damn thing about it

 

[Wisenheimer]

Uprender takes a lot of toll of system performance, which is why you generally don't see them unless absolute. For example, in the case of N64 on regular WIi, it is because no TV in the world would accept 320p, that they had to stretched it to 480i/480p.

Take PSP TV out for another example. PSP native resolution is 272p, again no TV in the world support such resolution. What Sony have done is to pad black box around 272p until overall resolution is 480p.

For Wii U, uprender may be possible for GC (due to strong similarity), but very unlikely for other platform.

There is no stretching going on. The gamecube/Wii emulator Nintendo uses renders NTSC games at 480i/p internally. It does not stretch them. Ocarina of Time actually has double the resolution on the gamecube and Wii as it does on the N64 if you use component cables.

 

[Wisenheimer]

Does this mean that they will release GameCube games on the Wii's Virtual Console? But the Wii U is already out; why are they thinking of releasing older games on an old system...
Welcome to the wonderful world of Nintendo, where they release original, complete games that don't require DLC; they're fine just the way they are and Nintendo knows it.
Has anyone heard of the rumor of how Microsoft is a greedy bastard company? What about Sony? I wouldn't expect it from them, but you never know...

I doubt gamecube games would be released for the Wii VC. Wii's don't have the storage space required and Nintendo is trying to transition everyone to the Wii U.

 

[calmwaters]

I doubt gamecube games would be released for the Wii VC. Wii's don't have the storage space required and Nintendo is trying to transition everyone to the Wii U.

^^This.

 

[kp_centi]

I do not have a Wii U yet, but my understanding is that N64 games are only available via the vWii. When they release them for the Wii U store, Nintendo should be writing an engine to render them in HD, at least I would hope.

The older engines for things like SNES games simply do not benefit from higher resolution because they mostly use sprites and not vector graphics. The only way to make Mario look less pixilated in Super Mario World is to remake all the sprites. On the other hand, gamecube and N64 games could benefit from 1080p resolution and given that N64 games were rendered in 480p on the Wii (even though a lot of them were 240x320 on the N64), I expect Nintendo will be at least bumping up the rendering to HD.

I don't think Nintendo would change the way the game is rendered. Since they never did for other VIRTUAL CONSOLE games. I believe Nintendo is pretty good about keeping the game close to the original

 

[Wisenheimer]

I don't think Nintendo would change the way the game is rendered. Since they never did for other VIRTUAL CONSOLE games. I believe Nintendo is pretty good about keeping the game close to the original

Nintendo changed the way N64 games were rendered on the Wii VC. For instance, OOT is rendered in 480p in the VC emulator versus 240p for an actual N64.

I'm not sure if there would be any advantage to rendering sprite-based graphics (like was usually used on earlier consoles) in higher resolutions since upscaling a pixel should look pretty similar to rendering it at native resolution.

The vector graphics most gamecube and N64 games used is different though. Stretching can cause vectors to become jagged and sometimes rendering textures at native resolution can improve their quality.