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Is Britain in its current state as bad as the media makes it out to be?

InsaneNutter

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Northern Ireland gets ignored by the rest of the UK, so certain things can't (won't) be shipped here. Really annoying buying anything with a battery online. Also limiting on big things like beds, though I can get those from RoI.

I work for a company that runs an eCommerce website. The situation with shipping to Ireland is a weird one, especially with items too large for Royal Mail.

If the parcel can go via Royal Mail its the same price as shipping it anywhere else within the UK to Northern Ireland, so never a problem. However if the destination is in the Republic of Ireland its classed as another country, so you are than in to airmail prices. Things seem to frequently disappear in transit never to be seen again when sent to the Republic of Ireland however... (no idea what's going on with the postal service over there) so everything is sent International Tracked & Signed, which costs well over £8 now.

For larger items that are too big for Royal Mail the shipping costs to Northern Ireland via a courier are extortionate compared to the UK. It will sound ridiculous, however we can often send things to New York cheaper than we can Ireland, I presume because they are far more planes leaving with cargo every day.

We do send some fairly large items, so relevant to your bed example. This is for a package that is 2 meters long:

uk-northern-ireland.jpg


(We do get better rates than that, which I can't share screenshots of, however the huge price discrepancy is still there)

Pre Covid that could have gone to Northern Ireland for £30. Shipping costs have increased astronomically since the start of 2020.
 
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flamming_python

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So the richer became way richer and the poorer, poorer while the public narrative blamed the poor for everyone except the elites becoming poorer and eventually the scapegoating continued to immigrants and foreigners, including people outside the country.
Rich become richer while the poor become poorer. Bud that's capitalism. Or rather it's a phase of the cycle of capitalism.

While the economy is growing the rich still become richer but the poor become richer too.
However when growth hits a stumbling block, or there's a recession of some kind or worst of all a financial crisis, what happens is that the total amount of resources start to decrease, and it's at that point that the rich start to prioritize their own welfare and the government, which is a plutocracy indirectly run by the same rich, enacts policies to protect their assets first and foremost. While the poor start to organize strikes and so on but it's all for nothing; they seldom have the organization to dug the duvet back onto their side of the bed.

You'll notice that that the FIRE sectors (finance, insurance, real estate) make up large shares of the richest economies in the world. These sectors of the economy do not produce goods or offer services of any kind, what they are concerned with is redirecting financial flows within economies (and across them). And typically from more hands to fewer hands. In other words they are a mechanism of wealth distribution from the have not's to the have's, and during an economic downturn they are more active than ever concentrating wealth into the hands of the monied class who use that time to buy up tangible assets. It's also companies in these sectors that are called 'too big to fail' and whatever. You'll note that neither the coal mines in the UK nor the shipyards there nor the automobile manufacturers were ever called 'too big to fail', no matter how many people they employed.
 
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pustal

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Rich become richer while the poor become poorer. Bud that's capitalism. Or rather it's a phase of the cycle of capitalism.
If only Europe ever heard of social democracy, that thing that elevated everyone out of poverty after WW2...
While the economy is growing the rich still become richer but the poor become richer too.
I'm certainly not becoming richer, even though my local economy is growing. Most people can't afford rent or a morgage and salaries are stagant facing the inflation, productivity and economic growth. And in the UK, even before Truss and Brexit, things were like that. The poor are not becoming richer at all, they don't earn more, they have less social services available and cost of living is increasing. That's true for the UK, most Europe and the US. And that has been true since neoliberalism got widespread.

The only good thing that economic growth brings is more jobs, but they are increasingly poorly paid and with less labor protections.
However when growth hits a stumbling block, or there's a recession of some kind or worst of all a financial crisis, what happens is that the total amount of resources start to decrease, and it's at that point that the rich start to prioritize their own welfare and the government, which is a plutocracy indirectly run by the same rich, enacts policies to protect their assets first and foremost. While the poor start to organize strikes and so on but it's all for nothing; they seldom have the organization to dug the duvet back onto their side of the bed.

The richest win, no matter what. There are speculative mechanisms to make money both in grown and downlfalls. If the economy is growing, you invest. If the economy is shrinking or crashing, you short. That's why you see crap like Boeing happening. What matters is the short term profits to pay dividinds and issue buybacks. If it crashes after, no problem, you can short the shares. That's also why the richest supported the Tories for so long. It doesn't make sence for the Bristish economy but help them become much more rich by deregulating (this includes leaving the EU) so they could speculate as they please removing the little checks and balances.

Also strikes are effective if well organized. One thing is an expected downfall, another is to stop operation without expectation. It's also bad for the government that loses credibility and still needs the vote of the people to continue.
 

flamming_python

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If only Europe ever heard of social democracy, that thing that elevated everyone out of poverty after WW2...

Britain has social democracy. It was among the first countries in the world to introduce a welfare system, although Kaiser Germany actually had one earlier in practice. And up until today has one of the most generous welfare systems there is. Not necessarily the most modern or well-run one, but certainly a generous healthcare, child benefit, education, etc.. system.

That's not the issue.
A large part of Britain's entire modern economy, more than most others, is also based around the aforementioned FIRE sectors - and while these sectors do bring in large profits from the rest of the world (thank neo-colonialism, foreign oligarchs, insurance monopoly over world shipping, etc...), this money stays at the very top and I don't think most of it is even taxed. The better you are with finance the better you are at avoiding taxes.
And of course during the times of economic downturn, the same FIRE sectors parasitize off Britain's own population which doesn't do any good for anyone either.
Yet these sectors do count towards the GDP. So on paper Britain has a large GDP, but in practice much of this economic activity is concentrated just among the rich and the more competent of the agents that specialize in real estate, banking, etc.. and amass their own small fortunes. And it's only the rest of Britain's GDP that actually represents the wealth of ordinary people. That's Britain's agricultural, industrial, real service sectors pretty much. Count just them, divide by 90-95% of Britain's population, and you'll get a better idea of people's average wealth.

I'm certainly not becoming richer, even though my local economy is growing. Most people can't afford rent or a morgage and salaries are stagant facing the inflation, productivity and economic growth. And in the UK, even before Truss and Brexit, things were like that. The poor are not becoming richer at all, they don't earn more, they have less social services available and cost of living is increasing. That's true for the UK, most Europe and the US. And that has been true since neoliberalism got widespread.

The only good thing that economic growth brings is more jobs, but they are increasingly poorly paid and with less labor protections.

Well I was speaking in general terms. But if we're speaking about Britain and a lot of these other countries - economic growth is not taking place so much through any massive investments into the country itself, or productivity increases. Mostly it's coming from just population growth, which in turn is driven by immigration. More workers, more companies, more state sector, more jobs, bigger economy. But that also means that there's a continous surplus of labour that prevents salaries from rising. Any wealth you end up generating is just spread over more people.
And then you have greater demand for housing due to population growth too, and if construction doesn't keep up, which it hasn't by all accounts, then housing prices are pressured up too. And so on.

So these globalist elites don't have any new ideas really. Apart from that whole FIRE business, it's just a case of growing these Western economies through immigration in an attempt to compete with emerging economies in the global south, who are actually seeing huge investments into infrastructure, agriculture, etc.. and productivity increases and so on - and are growing quicker, albeit from a lower base.

To even maintain Britain as a destination for immigration, people's living standards need to grow too, not just the aggregate size of the economy. Britain's elites have fostered in a self-defeating policy. What they really need to come up with, is a new model.

The richest win, no matter what. There are speculative mechanisms to make money both in grown and downlfalls. If the economy is growing, you invest. If the economy is shrinking or crashing, you short. That's why you see crap like Boeing happening. What matters is the short term profits to pay dividinds and issue buybacks. If it crashes after, no problem, you can short the shares. That's also why the richest supported the Tories for so long. It doesn't make sence for the Bristish economy but help them become much more rich by deregulating (this includes leaving the EU) so they could speculate as they please removing the little checks and balances.

Also strikes are effective if well organized. One thing is an expected downfall, another is to stop operation without expectation. It's also bad for the government that loses credibility and still needs the vote of the people to continue.

Yup, pretty much.

Although I disagree that strikes are effective. The rich operate as a class, at least when it comes to protecting the system that benefits them. The rest of the population don't. Whatever small local wins they can make here or there won't transfer to others and will quickly be eroded by the next inflation cycle or whatever anyway. But really, when you have all these strikes that's a symptom that you've already lost. The total number of resources available are decreasing and people are just fighting over the scraps. That's what happened in Russia in the 90s - the new boirgouise democratic government was within a few years facing a huge amount of striking workers all over the country - but the fact is that this coincided with the economy as a whole deindustrializing, the currency crashing, loans having to be taken from abroad, and so on.. Even if the government made it an absolute priority to raise wages to substitance levels, it wouldn't have been able to.
 
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subcon959

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It's a fuckton worse now than it was when this topic was started. I was actually in Southport with the family for the day while the stabbings were happening. We heard the commotion and people were talking about it everywhere but there weren't many details at the time. Due to inane laws, that situation continued long enough for the internet to contrive its own back story allowing fascist neanderthals to weaponise the atrocity into country-wide riots against non-whites... yet again.

When are we going to finally admit that these aren't foreign agents or conspiracists but a very real and significant part of the regular right-wing population of this country?
 

Maximumbeans

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It's a fuckton worse now than it was when this topic was started. I was actually in Southport with the family for the day while the stabbings were happening. We heard the commotion and people were talking about it everywhere but there weren't many details at the time. Due to inane laws, that situation continued long enough for the internet to contrive its own back story allowing fascist neanderthals to weaponise the atrocity into country-wide riots against non-whites... yet again.

When are we going to finally admit that these aren't foreign agents or conspiracists but a very real and significant part of the regular right-wing population of this country?
The stupidest part is that one of the girls who died was a Portuguese national, so we admit that humanity can come before national identity or ethnicity in one case, but not for others. Okay then.

Anybody who thinks these riots have any meaning left in them is deluded or just racist, closet or otherwise. When you’ve got gammons sporting nazi tattoos in the street, you’ve got enough proof that many of these people have just been waiting for their excuse.
 
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Jaxom

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Yep, it's dire. You can't get an HNS dentist, waiting times for opertations are long - usually in the years. You need to know in advance you are going to be ill so you can book a doctors appointment 3 weeks before you are ill. The education system has failed. Highstreets are like crumbling ghost towns. Most manufaturing jobs have been shipped abroad. Imported foreigners have become like an invasive species. Etc....

Yep the UK is now broken and worse, a lot worse than reported by the media.
I'd say... Classic EU's shit. Feels the same in France, for instance.
 
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subcon959

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The stupidest part is that one of the girls who died was a Portuguese national, so we admit that humanity can come before national identity or ethnicity in one case, but not for others. Okay then.

Anybody who thinks these riots have any meaning left in them is deluded or just racist, closet or otherwise. When you’ve got gammons sporting nazi tattoos in the street, you’ve got enough proof that many of these people have just been waiting for their excuse.
In the past, they usually got to vent their rage during football riots but ever since the police managed to get a handle on those it's been any event like this where just a hint of the perp being non-white was enough to set them off. The authorities need to come down on these people like an avalanche of bricks and show that it won't be tolerated at all. Also, people like Elon and Farage need to be held accountable for stoking the flames. I'm fairly certain that some of the stuff they say falls awfully close to violating the Terrorism Act of 2000.
 

Dark_Ansem

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I'd say... Classic EU's shit. Feels the same in France, for instance.
And I'd say you don't know what you're talking about, because not only UK has been out of EU for 5 solid years, but in france your far right has been solidly kicked back so... stop blaming the EU and take responsibility for your own far right failures.

Go be a simp for Marine le Salop somewhere else.
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awfully close to violating the Terrorism Act of 2000.
They're actually fairly in breach of the new Online Safety act but...

1 - ofcom and ofwat are useless
2 - UK, unlike the EU, has a long, LONG history of bending over for big corpos.
 

Jaxom

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And I'd say you don't know what you're talking about, because not only UK has been out of EU for 5 solid years, but in france your far right has been solidly kicked back so... stop blaming the EU and take responsibility for your own far right failures.

Go be a simp for Marine le Salop somewhere else.
I know UK is already out of the EU, please, but the whole continent is still undergoing the same kind of events.
And you're right, the French right parties are clearly needing some solid inspection among their members.
On the other hand, I'm not simping for Marine LE PEN, so please.

There are not a lot of politicians I'm inclined to trust, Marine LE PEN's party clearly has it flaws, and some of them are big. But most of the actual parties represented at the parliament are... Disappointing, to say the least.

As to blame the European Union, I think it is actually quite easy to do so, considering the level of corruption that is getting in its parliament's corridors and the level of sovereignty it tries to snatch from EU's countries' hands.

The fact that EU wants to stop selling fossil energy-powered vehicles by 2035 while trying (and succeeding, as the last one closed last year's spring) to give up on nuclear in Germany, and having strong lobbies to influence other countries to do the same is painting a pretty consternating picture of how things are thought and dealt with. The lack of long term vision is what is clearly directing the fall of most of EU's economies (I include UK inside of this statement, as it seems the Brexit wasn't thoroughly planned and took as a short term solution, that seems to have taken the wrong turn).

Edit : When I say "the whole continent is still undergoing the same kind of events", I don't mean the riots actually happening, although it could degenerate into this. I was referring to the fall of public services, health, education, etc. In France, if you're not leaving in one of the biggest cities, you'll easily have to drive 30 minutes to 1 hour, if not more, depending on what you need. I remember that one of our politicians, Mr. Jean LASSALLE fought to have a maternity remaining open, he managed to find all the doctors and specialists needed to maintain the service's operations, but the administration still decided to close it. Some women in this region are now facing 2 hours trips to be able to give birth.
 
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Dark_Ansem

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As to blame the European Union, I think it is actually quite easy to do so, considering the level of corruption that is getting in its parliament's corridors
LOL the "level of corruption in parliament" is fancy euphemism for the corruption of the right and far right politicians in EU parliament in cahoots with Russia.

The fact that EU wants to stop selling fossil energy-powered vehicles by 2035 while trying (and succeeding, as the last one closed last year's spring) to give up on nuclear in Germany, and having strong lobbies to influence other countries to do the same is painting a pretty consternating picture of how things are thought and dealt with.
Renewable plants can be built in one year and they work. Nuclear plants take 20 years to build and they're one nuclear accident away from a Chernobyl.

Do you think you're somehow invulnerable to the effects of climate change? Or radiation? is your shot at the EU that they're trying to make human life less miserable and dangerous? If you live to experience heat stroke, fine. but don't try to get others into your delusion.
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and the level of sovereignty it tries to snatch from EU's countries' hands.
Oh look, it's the Brexit lie all over again. Since the highest command of the EU are the elected prime ministers, this ridiculous point you're making has been debunked hundreds of times in the past decade. Unless you're saying that the ELECTED PRIME MINISTERS are somehow trying to make themselves less relevant? No initiative of the EU commission (because that's what you're insinuating) comes from a vacuum, the programme is drafted and approved by the Prime ministers, AND by the parliament.

There is no snatch of sovereignty. Are you some sort of foreign Brexit-simp? The evidence in front of your eyes is failing your cognitive brainpower, assuming it is real?
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I was referring to the fall of public services, health, education, etc
Nice save with edit. Again, this is a failure of domestic policy, not EU policy. And a failure of proper urbanisation planning. Maybe Monsieur Sarkozy could have focused on that 10 years ago, instead of trying to go to war in Syria with David Cameron.
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but the administration still decided to close it.
So not a fauilt of the EU, once again.
 

Jaxom

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LOL the "level of corruption in parliament" is fancy euphemism for the corruption of the right and far right politicians in EU parliament in cahoots with Russia.


Renewable plants can be built in one year and they work. Nuclear plants take 20 years to build and they're one nuclear accident away from a Chernobyl.

Do you think you're somehow invulnerable to the effects of climate change? Or radiation? is your shot at the EU that they're trying to make human life less miserable and dangerous? If you live to experience heat stroke, fine. but don't try to get others into your delusion.
I don't know why you're so fixated on attacking the right parties that much. Did I say or promoted anything related to it?

Also, the right/russian association seems a little easy, should I go for easy judgement and associate left/USA as in the gold old Cold War days? 🤣

Your mention of the Chernobyl incident is actually quite showing on your fixation. I'd like to invite you to read about the Fukushima incident, to have an idea about its outcome and how modern plants failures are already much more manageable.
And worst case scenario, you could argue that Russia can always fire a Satan2 are European capitals, we won't even need the help of our power plants to get eradicated, but thanks for your concerns. 😂

The renewable energies, if that's what you're talking about, are a vast joke in term of efficiency. They are usually losing most of their efficiency in the 10 years following their installation, their production requires rare compounds, are extremely polluting, and recycling is also not worth it (in term of pollution emitted for proper recycling process, when possible). They can be a solution for small use-cases, but you cannot power an industrially active country with those. Ask China what they think about these. Their answer will surely be "Good thing we sell them to those green lovers.". 😑
 
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Dark_Ansem

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I don't know why you're so fixated on attacking the right parties that much? Did I say or promoted anything related to it?
Yes.
Also, the right/russian association seems a little easy, should I go for easy judgement and associate left/USA as in the gold old Cold War days? 🤣
You sure can, if you want to be ridiculed even more. The fact that Russia bankrolls the european far-right is, as I said, a fact.
And worst case scenario, you could argue that Russia can always fire a Satan2 are European capitals, we won't even need the help of our power plants to get eradicated, but thanks for your concerns. 😂
Why, thank you for displaying how you equate chernobyl with WW3. did you just spend your modern history classes high as a kite?
Ask China what they think about these. Their answer will surely be "Good thing we sell them to those green lovers.". 😑
I literally don't care about China except in ways on how to stop it polluting our markets with their nonsense Shein and other low-quality goods.
 

JayPea

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Thankfully, the cuntery happening around these parts is being confined to England and hasn't progressed to the Principality. Yet. But those knuckle-draggers using that terrible event in Southport to further their own cause and use it as an excuse for recreational hate & violence? I hope they all get arse cancer.
 
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Dark_Ansem

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Thankfully, the cuntery happening around these parts is being confined to England and hasn't progressed to the Principality. Yet. But those knuckle-draggers using that terrible event in Southport to further their own cause and use it as an excuse for recreational hate & violence? I hope they all get arse cancer.
It's obviously an early stage coup to delegitimise and overthrow the labour government. They're all funded by foreign money.
 

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