Is Biden Helping Build Russia-Germany Pipeline After Axing Keystone XL Here at Home?

tabzer

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[A source]

To appeal to the staff of the site, I have decided to resubmit a post on a current political situation. This time, instead of encouraging having fun with it, I encourage that you bare your salt and treat this thread as if you were rescuing politics for the good of humans.

My opening: IF this was Trump, the media would be all over him. If you disagree, I believe it's because you are disingenuous or lack objectivity.
 
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AmandaRose

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A rather misleading story when you actually look at all the facts.

1) When Biden took over in January the pipeline was already 90% complete. So Trump was in charge during 90% of the construction.

2) Biden has said about the pipeline the he was totally against it.

3) In which way is he helping build the pipeline? All has has done is refuse to stop Rusia building it. A move done not to piss off Germany and the rest of Europe. He is making an effort to build bridges that was burnt by the previous administration. What is so wrong with wanting to work more closely with Europe?

As you can also see in the report in the link below it also says that it would be near impossible for Biden to stop the pipeline from being finished because it is already nearly finished.

4. The media weren't all over Trump during the 90% of the construction that he was in charge during so the point you are trying to make with that statement is a non starter.

https://www.reuters.com/business/en...ias-nord-stream-2-pipeline-source-2021-05-19/
 
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Taleweaver

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My opening: IF this was Trump, the media would be all over him. If you disagree, I believe it's because you are disingenuous or lack objectivity.
Ah, the classic "IF YOU DISAGREE WITH ME YOU ARE A MONSTER!!!" proactive attack statement. So since I'm not a monster (or disingenuous, in this case) and don't have intentions of becoming so, I can only wholeheartedly agree with you.

Thanks for letting me know what my opinion should be. This makes browsing forums and discussing politics much easier. :D


EDIT: okay...now that we've covered the comedy part of your post, let's talk politics. :)

The first thing I thought of reading your carefully selected screenshot of the part of the article you want to share was "ey! What the hell is Biden thinking he can call the shots in other countries?".:glare:
So mission accomplished: I read the article. And if it was a clickbait attempt, you even double-won, as I literally looked up a translation of "to waive", because the writer of the article (and you, apparently) somehow manages to completely miss the meaning of the word. It's really a synonym for words like "defer, forgo, resign, stay" and so on (all depending on context, of course). So this "to waive sanctions" is basically saying "nope...we're not going to put sanctions in place here".

So this whole "But Biden is helping Russia and a German CEO" is complete bullshit. It's very akin to me saying something like, I dunno...

@tabzer is helping me jerking off to lesbian sabertooth tigers vomiting over gobelin tapestries

...when all you really did is not sanction me to do whatever the fuck I want in the comfort of my own home.


So as to your opening: Trump didn't interfere much (or at all?) in consensual agreements between two foreign countries. I can provide hundreds of photographs of him not sanctioning two foreign countries and the media not giving him flak about it(1), so...what are you after here, exactly?

I'm not sure what to say on @AmandaRose 's statement that 90% of this pipeline was built under Donald's watch, but if true, you'll understand that I have to engage in not only considering your opening not only null and void, but in addition have to make the following remark that'll indicate what I think of your ignorance regarding this topic:
8b24be0b449268501795b2116256a3e4.jpg


EDIT 2: yup...Amanda's right (thanks for that link, btw :) ). Part of the Reuters article:

A U.S. official conceded that stopping the project would be difficult but that Washington would keep trying. "We inherited a pipeline that was over 90% complete and so stopping it has always been a long shot," the State Department official said.

Soooo...what's this outcry about, really? The westernjournal article's author was already dubious in confusing "waiving sanctions" with "actively helping", and now it turns out the bloody thing's already 95% complete. That really turns the whole thing in an absurd (read: republican propaganda) territory.

I mean...the image thinker in me already sees an incredibly long pipe-line all across Russia and Germany, but just at one end, where workers are about to put the last pipes in place, the article's author is on his knees crying bitter tears and proclaiming something like "it's because of Biden's inaction that the chance this pipeline is complete increases!!!". :glare:


I also thought of something else. I live in East Flanders now. Somewhere almost directly between the large port of Antwerp and the German 'Ruhrgebied'. There were plans of a pipeline here as well between Antwerp and Germany (not gas, though). Because it would cross straight through many acres of nature environment, there was (and I presume still is) plenty of local protest.
You know what WASN'T a factor? Someone thinking Biden should intervene somehow. Because we are Belgium, and Germany is Germany. Neither's a fucking colony of the USA. It may be a problem, but it's a local problem. The last thing we want(2) is our local problems becoming some sort of argument in US politics.

(1): Trump made sure he got flak from all other sorts of shenanigans, but ey...it wasn't about him not interfering in foreign trade deals.
(2): okay, okay: I can think of a few other things we want even less. But you get the point
 
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dazindude

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[A source]

To appeal to the staff of the site, I have decided to resubmit a post on a current political situation. This time, instead of encouraging having fun with it, I encourage that you bare your salt and treat this thread as if you were rescuing politics for the good of humans.

My opening: IF this was Trump, the media would be all over him. If you disagree, I believe it's because you are disingenuous or lack objectivity.
The western journal which is the website that this story comes from is filled with tons of stories like this that contain partial or completely made up information. There's tons of stuff to criticize Biden on but this ain't it. Sharing stories like this is exactly why people don't take conservatives seriously.
 

tabzer

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Time for Amanda logic.

1) When Biden took over in January the pipeline was already 90% complete. So Trump was in charge during 90% of the construction.

This is misleading, because it suggests that sanctions don't mean anything when they are in place during the Trump administration. It also suggests that 90% of the pipeline was built during the Trump administration, which is not sourced in your rebuttal.

2) Biden has said about the pipeline the he was totally against it.

And then he waived sanctions that were previously in place.

3) In which way is he helping build the pipeline?

He waived sanctions that were in place, which expedites the process.

4. The media weren't all over Trump during the 90% of the construction that he was in charge during so the point you are trying to make with that statement is a non starter.

Because he had sanctions in place over the pipeline.
 

AmandaRose

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This is misleading, because it suggests that sanctions don't mean anything when they are in place during the Trump administration. It also suggests that 90% of the pipeline was built during the Trump administration, which is not sourced in your rebuttal.



.
It is sourced because it clearly states in the reuters link I posted in my previous post that when Biden took over in January the pipeline was already 90% Complete.

It also states in the same article that the removal of sanctions is to help boost relationships with Europe something Trump totally destroyed. So again please tell we how Biden working closely with Europe is a not a good thing?
 

tabzer

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Ah, the classic "IF YOU DISAGREE WITH ME YOU ARE A MONSTER!!!" proactive attack statement. So since I'm not a monster (or disingenuous, in this case) and don't have intentions of becoming so, I can only wholeheartedly agree with you.

Thank you.

Thanks for letting me know what my opinion should be. This makes browsing forums and discussing politics much easier. :D

You're welcome!

The first thing I thought of reading your carefully selected screenshot of the part of the article you want to share was "ey! What the hell is Biden thinking he can call the shots in other countries?".:glare:

I thought that was a default American thing, I was thinking something else.

And if it was a clickbait attempt, you even double-won, as I literally looked up a translation of "to waive", because the writer of the article (and you, apparently) somehow manages to completely miss the meaning of the word. It's really a synonym for words like "defer, forgo, resign, stay" and so on (all depending on context, of course). So this "to waive sanctions" is basically saying "nope...we're not going to put sanctions in place here".

Well, that's kind of right, but it assumes something factually inaccurate, and it is that sanctions weren't* already there.

So this whole "But Biden is helping Russia and a German CEO" is complete bullshit. It's very akin to me saying something like, I dunno...

That's certain.

(1): Trump made sure he got flak from all other sorts of shenanigans, but ey...it wasn't about him not interfering in foreign trade deals.

Umm, tariffs are still a source of contention, but as you indicate, it's besides the point.

The western journal which is the website that this story comes from is filled with tons of stories like this that contain partial or completely made up information. There's tons of stuff to criticize Biden on but this ain't it. Sharing stories like this is exactly why people don't take conservatives seriously.

Then enjoy this: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/na...-after-waiving-sanctions-russian-gas-n1267975
 
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tabzer

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It is sourced because it clearly states in the reuters link I posted in my previous post that when Biden took over in January the pipeline was already 90% Complete.

That doesn't say that it all happened during Trump Admin.

It also states in the same article that the removal of sanctions is to help boost relationships with Europe something Trump totally destroyed. So again please tell we how Biden working closely with Europe is a not a good thing?

That was not my claim. I would of thought it to be great if Trump could create a good relationship with Russia directly, and even China. The media, however, is always propagandist.
 

AmandaRose

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That doesn't say that it all happened during Trump Admin.

It clearly does state that. Let me just copy and paste from my link.

A U.S. official conceded that stopping the project would be difficult but that Washington would keep trying. "We inherited a pipeline that was over 90% complete and so stopping it has always been a long shot," the State Department official said
 

Taleweaver

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Aww...I was too busy with IRL stuff to properly research/post everything I wanted to say. And now that I've edited my last post, it's like it's been on repeat. Sorry about that. :\
 
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AmandaRose

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Inherited from what, the course of 5 administrations? We can't make a conclusion based on your feelings Amanda.
It's not my feelings it's a fact that the current American Government has stated the pipeline was 90% complete when they took over in January. If you want to ignore the facts even when they have been clearly shown to you then that's your problem not mine. But to be honest I'm totally not surprised as you pretty much like to argue just for the sake of it even when you have been proven wrong.

For the last time let me screenshot the current government saying they inherited a situation that was 90% completed during the previous administration.

Screenshot_20210524-150326_Samsung Internet.jpg
 

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To appeal to the staff of the site, I have decided to resubmit a post on a current political situation. This time, instead of encouraging having fun with it, I encourage that you bare your salt and treat this thread as if you were rescuing politics for the good of humans.
.
My appeal to you

I beg you don't cry
 
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tabzer

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My appeal to you

I beg you don't cry

I won't cry, again.

Aww...I was too busy with IRL stuff to properly research/post everything I wanted to say. And now that I've edited my last post, it's like it's been on repeat. Sorry about that. :\

Don't worry. If you disagreed with my opening proposition, being disingenuous or lacking of objectivity doesn't make you a monster. I do believe there is a hex that will turn you into plastic, though.
 
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AmandaRose

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How long ago did they start the pipeline Amanda? During the Bush adminstration?
It has nothing to do who was in charge when the pipeline was started you keep denying the fact that the pipeline was 90% complete when Biden took over. The facts clearly state it was indeed 90% completed when Biden took over and was far too near completion for Biden to stop the damb thing. That is not hard for anyone to understand

The only reason sanctions have been removed is to built bridges with Europe. You know because the pipeline is a really good thing for Europe.

Also the facts show the previous sanctions that Trump imposed were not really effective and that is why the pipeline is nownearly completed.
 

tabzer

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It has nothing to do who was in charge when the pipeline was started you keep denying the fact that the pipeline was 90% complete when Biden took over. The facts clearly state it was indeed 90% completed when Biden took over and was far too near completion for Biden to stop the damb thing. That is not hard for anyone to understand

You have not given any indication that the pipeline was not 90% completed when Trump inherited it. Maybe it stayed 90% completed throughout his entire term, because of the sanctions. You are only supporting my initial claim.

You know because the pipeline is a really good thing for Europe.

And the initial claim was that if Trump enabled it, the narrative would have been "is a really good thing for Russia!".

Everybody knows it.
 

Taleweaver

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How long ago did they start the pipeline Amanda? During the Bush adminstration?
Jeez, dude. How about you start with leaving the goal post where it's at. Your main idea was that Biden was at fault. You were proven wrong. Don't pretend as if fishing for details or going personal will somehow change that.

But ey...why not? I've googled it for you. Here's your answer, straight from wikipedia:

Nord Stream 2[edit]
In 2011, Nord Stream AG started evaluation of an expansion project consisting of two additional lines (later named Nord Stream 2) to increase the overall annual capacity up to 110 billion m3 (3.9 trillion cu ft). In August 2012, Nord Stream AG applied to the Finnish and Estonian governments for route studies in their underwater exclusive economic zones for the third and fourth lines.[49] It was considered to route the additional pipelines to the United Kingdom but this plan was abandoned.[50][51]

In January 2015, it was announced that the expansion project was put on hold since the existing lines were running at only half capacity due to EU restrictions on Gazprom.[52]

In June 2015, an agreement to build Nord Stream 2 was signed between Gazprom, Royal Dutch Shell, E.ON, OMV, and Engie.[53] As the creation of a joint venture was blocked by Poland, on 24 April 2017, Uniper, Wintershall, Engie, OMV and Royal Dutch Shell signed a financing agreement with Nord Stream 2 AG, a subsidiary of Gazprom responsible for the development of the Nord Stream 2 project.[54]

On 31 January 2018, Germany granted Nord Stream 2 a permit for construction and operation in German waters and landfall areas near Lubmin.[55] In May 2018 construction started at the Greifswald end point.[56]

In January 2019, the US ambassador in Germany, Richard Grenell, sent letters to companies involved in the construction of Nord Stream 2 urging them to stop working on the project and threatening with the possibility of sanctions.[57] In December 2019, the Republican Senators Ted Cruz and Ron Johnson have also urged Allseas owner Edward Heerema to suspend the works on the pipeline, warning him that otherwise the United States would impose sanctions.[58]

On 21 December 2019, Allseas announced that the company had suspended its Nord Stream 2 pipelay activities, anticipating enactment of the U.S. National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2020[59] containing sanctions. These sanctions were soon imposed.[60] Nord Stream 2 said it would finish construction "as soon as possible".[61]

In May 2020, the German energy regulator refused an exception from competition rules that require Nord Stream 2 to separate gas ownership from transmission.[62]

In August 2020, Poland fined Gazprom €50 million due to the latter's lack of cooperation with an investigation launched by UOKiK, the Polish anti-monopoly watchdog, under competition rules against Gazprom and companies that are financing the project, suspecting that they have continued to work on the pipeline without permission from the government of Poland.[63] In December, it was reported the Russian pipe layer ship Akademik Cherskiy has initiated the works for the completion of the pipe-line.[64]

So...depending on where you want to start counting (as many large projects, the initial planning was indoors), I'd say things really started on January 2018.

It's certainly interesting that, indeed, Trump did impose sanctions. Not really effective ones (again: the work got nearly finished despite it), but I concede he wasn't fumbling around on that one. He was just shy of 2 years too late to impose, that's all.
 
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