Hacking If your USB HD won't load - check GPT vs MBR !

[syntax53]

I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out why a USB HD would not mount on this Wii I was setting up. I could see it getting activity and sometimes USB Loader GX would read it. CFG USB Loader, snes9xgx, fceultragx, etc would never load it though. As a last ditched effort I downloaded MiniTool Partition Wizard to take a look at it and try formatting it with that. I had been using "guiformat" up until this point to format and make it fat32. However, that doesn't seem to care about the partition structure.

As soon as I saw that it was a GPT disk in MiniTool, I was like... YES!!@# Sure enough, changed it to MBR, formatted fat32, reloaded everything on it and now it mounts every time. Wasn't sure the best place to post this as it's not loader specific and there are a ton of "usb mounting" issue threads. Of all the threads and guides I've read, I don't think I've seen anyone mention to check the partitioning structure. I just happened to notice it.

 

[KJonline]

I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out why a USB HD would not mount on this Wii I was setting up. I could see it getting activity and sometimes USB Loader GX would read it. CFG USB Loader, snes9xgx, fceultragx, etc would never load it though. As a last ditched effort I downloaded MiniTool Partition Wizard to take a look at it and try formatting it with that. I had been using "guiformat" up until this point to format and make it fat32. However, that doesn't seem to care about the partition structure.

As soon as I saw that it was a GPT disk in MiniTool, I was like... YES!!@# Sure enough, changed it to MBR, formatted fat32, reloaded everything on it and now it mounts every time. Wasn't sure the best place to post this as it's not loader specific and there are a ton of "usb mounting" issue threads. Of all the threads and guides I've read, I don't think I've seen anyone mention to check the partitioning structure. I just happened to notice it.

hello, Im new the the Wii homebrew game, and just now in the process of getting my 4TB SEAGATE BACKUP PLUS hard drive ready for Wii and GC games. got a fe qustions for ya

1. So when formatting a hard drive, your basically saying that doing it as MBR gets rid of all the glitches and issues, correct?

2. when formating at FAT32 does the cluster size need to be at 32k like i keep reading about?

3. is there a way to format the whole 4tb drive as a whole FAT32?? ive tried many software and failed. keeps sayng thelimit is 2tb. yet ive read wherre others have done it.

 

[KleinesSinchen]

FAT32 with more than 2TB is complicated. The same with MBR partition layout:
https://superuser.com/questions/839556/can-external-hdd-be-larger-than-2tb-with-mbr

See also these threads: 1 and 2

 

[KJonline]

FAT32 with more than 2TB is complicated. The same with MBR partition layout:
https://superuser.com/questions/839556/can-external-hdd-be-larger-than-2tb-with-mbr

See also these threads: 1 and 2

Yeah, you are correct. I think I will just split it up into two partitions. Now to make sure I do this correctly, My understanding is MBR cannot partition greater than 2tb. Meaning that I need to split my 4 terabyte hard drive down the middle to make the two partitions.

I will do FAT32/FAT32 at 32k clusters each at 2tb

I question now is do I need to set both of them has PRIMARY?

Also, which one should I set as ACTIVE?

....Or does none of this really matter?

My goal is to be able to run all Homebrew apps, GameCube games, wiiware games, Wii games, etc. With no conflicts anywhere.

 

[Ryccardo]

My understanding is MBR cannot partition greater than 2tb

No, MBR (and, by coincidence, FAT32) are limited to 4 terasectors (which, with most drives having half-kB sectors, equals 2 TB -- but "most drives" doesn't mean "all": "Advanced Format 4KN" drives, for example, have 4 kB sectors)

There's also no technical reason for the HBC, forwarders, usb loaders, ... not to support GPT - but it simply didn't matter to most people back then, and neither it does today, especially given how complicated recompiling an old homebrew may turn out to be

I question now is do I need to set both of them has PRIMARY?

Also, which one should I set as ACTIVE?

....Or does none of this really matter?

Being primary or logical isn't really an "option" of a partition, it's just the way it is:
- The (standard) MBR has room for 4 partitions
- At the time, given the size of affordable HDDs but especially limitations into early versions of DOS - you could only have 1 primary and 1 extended partition, and even later versions strongly discouraged multiple primary ones - 4 was more than enough
- The standard PC bootloader (which reads the partition table, then boots the active partition) doesn't directly support extended/logical partitions

So the MBR can hold at most 4 partitions: 4 primaries, or 3 primaries and 1 extended
(note that some disk management software hides the concept of extended partitions, handles them automatically, and only gives you the choice of primary or logical)

- A primary partition is one listed directly in the MBR
- An extended partition may be seen as a virtual disk with its own "MBR" (actually called "EBR"), but the EBR - while having the same structure of a MBR - is not used in the exact same way
- An EBR should have one or at most two partitions: 1 is a logical partition, 2 (if existant) is another extended partition, containing the next logical partition

Finally, as said above, an active partition is the one that will be loaded by the standard, noninteractive, PC bootloader - I doubt modern OSes (and their bootloaders) care, especially given you won't be booting from that disk anyway; the Wii as a whole certainly doesn't care and probably so do most homebrews; just note that not more than 1 partition must be active, to conform to standards

- MBRs support up to 4 terasectors for both "start position" and "size from there" figures, so MBR can actually address almost 4 TB (on a 512 B-sector drive) as long as you use exactly 2 partitions, and they both start before 2 TB
- The same is true of EBRs, so you could get a potentially infinite amount of partitions (each less than 2 TB) as long as all the ones after the 2 TB mark were logical
- Actual support for the 2 above tricks, as well as of the relatively new non-512B-sector disks, is questionable and may be limited by the software and operating systems involved (as well as by the USB-SATA converter you may be using, which shouldn't matter but sometimes does)

tl;dr make 2 primary partitions for now, then when you get tired of the hassle buy a <= 2 TB disk, or if you like to experiment with more games than you probably legally own, a <= 16 TB 4Kn disk

 

[KJonline]

No, MBR (and, by coincidence, FAT32) are limited to 4 terasectors (which, with most drives having half-kB sectors, equals 2 TB -- but "most drives" doesn't mean "all": "Advanced Format 4KN" drives, for example, have 4 kB sectors)

There's also no technical reason for the HBC, forwarders, usb loaders, ... not to support GPT - but it simply didn't matter to most people back then, and neither it does today, especially given how complicated recompiling an old homebrew may turn out to be


Being primary or logical isn't really an "option" of a partition, it's just the way it is:
- The (standard) MBR has room for 4 partitions
- At the time, given the size of affordable HDDs but especially limitations into early versions of DOS - you could only have 1 primary and 1 extended partition, and even later versions strongly discouraged multiple primary ones - 4 was more than enough
- The standard PC bootloader (which reads the partition table, then boots the active partition) doesn't directly support extended/logical partitions

So the MBR can hold at most 4 partitions: 4 primaries, or 3 primaries and 1 extended
(note that some disk management software hides the concept of extended partitions, handles them automatically, and only gives you the choice of primary or logical)

- A primary partition is one listed directly in the MBR
- An extended partition may be seen as a virtual disk with its own "MBR" (actually called "EBR"), but the EBR - while having the same structure of a MBR - is not used in the exact same way
- An EBR should have one or at most two partitions: 1 is a logical partition, 2 (if existant) is another extended partition, containing the next logical partition

Finally, as said above, an active partition is the one that will be loaded by the standard, noninteractive, PC bootloader - I doubt modern OSes (and their bootloaders) care, especially given you won't be booting from that disk anyway; the Wii as a whole certainly doesn't care and probably so do most homebrews; just note that not more than 1 partition must be active, to conform to standards

- MBRs support up to 4 terasectors for both "start position" and "size from there" figures, so MBR can actually address almost 4 TB (on a 512 B-sector drive) as long as you use exactly 2 partitions, and they both start before 2 TB
- The same is true of EBRs, so you could get a potentially infinite amount of partitions (each less than 2 TB) as long as all the ones after the 2 TB mark were logical
- Actual support for the 2 above tricks, as well as of the relatively new non-512B-sector disks, is questionable and may be limited by the software and operating systems involved (as well as by the USB-SATA converter you may be using, which shouldn't matter but sometimes does)

tl;dr make 2 primary partitions for now, then when you get tired of the hassle buy a <= 2 TB disk, or if you like to experiment with more games than you probably legally own, a <= 16 TB 4Kn disk

Thanks for the input. I have a 4tb Seagate Backup Plus external USB powered hard drive.

I will be using it for Wii only to run Homebrew apps, Wii ames, GC games, and WIIWARE games, etc.

Once I format it the way it needs to be formatted, ide prefer not to mess with it again because I'll be moving all my software and games to it.

To keep it simple, what should I do to this hard drive to ensure I'm able to run everything wii Homebrew related with no issues?

Originally I wanted to format the WHOLE drive at FAT32 32k clusters, but I can't figure out how some people did that.

If you know how, to perform that magic, that would be AWESOME.

 

[Ryccardo]

To keep it simple, what should I do to this hard drive to ensure I'm able to run everything wii Homebrew related with no issues?

Originally I wanted to format the WHOLE drive at FAT32 32k clusters, but I can't figure out how some people did that.

For maximum compatibility, the answer is easy: MBR partition table, a single (primary) partition, FAT32 file system

As I said above, you will then likely be limited to 2 TB in this case, but you should have no further hassle

If you use Windows, or at least any modern version of it, you will need 3rd party tools to format a partition larger than 32 GB to FAT32, because Microsoft (who does not know what you're going to use that disk for) has a vested commercial interest in having the masses use their patented NTFS and FAT64=exFAT filesystems (so that third party companies get more interested in using them instead of alternatives); pretty much every other OS doesn't care

 

[KJonline]

For maximum compatibility, the answer is easy: MBR partition table, a single (primary) partition, FAT32 file system

As I said above, you will then likely be limited to 2 TB in this case, but you should have no further hassle

If you use Windows, or at least any modern version of it, you will need 3rd party tools to format a partition larger than 32 GB to FAT32, because Microsoft (who does not know what you're going to use that disk for) has a vested commercial interest in having the masses use their patented NTFS and FAT64=exFAT filesystems (so that third party companies get more interested in using them instead of alternatives); pretty much every other OS doesn't care

Cool I thought so, but had to be sure.

1. So I can take my 4tb Seagate hard drive and just split the partition down the middle for a total of TWO partitions to have close to 2tb each. Then format at FAT32 32k clusters, correct?

2. Do make BOTH partitions PRIMARY and ACTIVE at same time?... That part confused me a LITTLE, sorry.

3. I currently use MINITOOL fat32 formatter, but can't seem to figure out how to make both partitions PRIMARY at same time.
Is there another program you recommend that's way better?

Sorry for all the questions, but I made a big investment on this hard drive, so I got to make sure everything is done correctly.

 

[Ryccardo]

1. So I can take my 4tb Seagate hard drive and just split the partition down the middle for a total of TWO partitions to have close to 2tb each. Then format at FAT32 32k clusters, correct?

2. Do make BOTH partitions PRIMARY and ACTIVE at same time?... That part confused me a LITTLE, sorry.

3. I currently use MINITOOL fat32 formatter, but can't seem to figure out how to make both partitions PRIMARY at same time.
Is there another program you recommend that's way better?

In theory yes, you can have 2 partitions of almost* 2 TB as long as both start before almost* 2 TB
(* = subtract 1 sector, which your partitioning software may round to 1 MB, from both of those figures)
Whether your partitioning (and other) software will actually tolerate that setup, I don't know - but trying is free

You should make both of them primary - that's an option while you create them: you can choose primary or logical

You should make none of them active, as they won't contain an operating system; if you can't do that with the partitioning software you're using, make one of your choice active, it won't change anything (in an ideal world)

 

[KJonline]

In theory yes, you can have 2 partitions of almost* 2 TB as long as both start before almost* 2 TB
(* = subtract 1 sector, which your partitioning software may round to 1 MB, from both of those figures)
Whether your partitioning (and other) software will actually tolerate that setup, I don't know - but trying is free

You should make both of them primary - that's an option while you create them: you can choose primary or logical

You should make none of them active, as they won't contain an operating system; if you can't do that with the partitioning software you're using, make one of your choice active, it won't change anything (in an ideal world)

Unfortunately, when using MINITOOL FAT32 formatter, it won't allow me to make more than one partition if its an MBR. It automatically wants me to use my 4tb hard drive as a 2tb. Splitting partition while keeping the full 4tb space only works when it's a GPT.

My understanding is that MBR has way more compatability though. I'm screwed and been screwed for couple weeks now.

Any suggestions? Shall I use different formatting software? Etc.