If you could choose between 720p60 or 1080p30?

[xwatchmanx]

720p60 without a doubt. When it comes to gaming, pixel-clarity isn't that important. What's important is good controls and no input lag. However, modern consoles in reality should be able to do 1080p60 considering how much they cost.

This is how I feel. I'll definitely choose 720p60fps if forced to choose, but it's not even a choice that should have to be made today.

My blind cousin can confirm that you cannot even distinguish between 0 frames per second. Don't let PC gamers lie to you.

Psh! Of course you feel that way: You have mouths for eyes!

 

[sarkwalvein]

This is how I feel. I'll definitely choose 720p60fps if forced to choose, but it's not even a choice that should have to be made today.

Well, Wii U not so up-to-date hardware, time constraints, laziness of developers, etc. (you know)
Actually I believe that having very strong hardware that allows for rapid (less optimized) development, and lets the development team concentrate on the game story, art, gameplay, etc. instead of the programming, is good hardware.
People may look at it as "laziness" , but you know, it is a world of limited resources, if you put more effort into the code optimization, you have to take away effort from some other place.
And if you told me you would either give me a 720p60 game with very good and refined gameplay or a 1080p60 game with some buggy not fun gameplay, I would go with the one that plays better.
Also having stronger hardware to give more room to being lazy at optimizations would be better. Always. Perhaps.

 

[Deleted User]

Depends. Some fast paced games like Xenoverse actually look slightly better at 30fps. Slower games like League of Legends need the 60 FPS though. On a PC the difference between 1080P and 720P is more noticeable than playing a couch console.
Definite no on the third option, 15 fps is noticeably worse on everything and I don't need to go above 1080P

 

[Hungry Friend]

Anything below 30 is shit and inconsistent framerates also suck, so if you have to lower the res, remove some texture detail/particle effects or whatever to make a game run at a consistent 30 or preferably 60, do it. As far as limited hardware goes, I'm somewhat of the mind that HW limitations inspire creative solutions when talented dev teams are involved, but I also agree that more powerful HW allows devs to spend more time on gameplay, story and general content rather than optimizing a game to run on weak hardware. Companies don't have as much pressure on them to release COMPLETE games these days because they can just patch an initial buggy release which is a shitty trend. If Gran Turismo 4 can run at 480p(upscaled to 1080i too) on a fucking PS2 @ 60fps(I think), today's games should at least be able to push a consistent 720p/60fps or at least 1080p with a rock solid 30fps. In short, more time needs to be spent optimizing games and less time needs to be spent on taking shit out of games and selling it as "DLC".(had to shoehorn that in)

Like I said earlier, 60fps is very much needed in games like shooters, racing games and fighters that require quick reactions, but a consistent 30 is generally more than playable. Modern LCD & Plasma displays generally have much more input lag than old CRTs, so 60fps is also needed to minimize that kind of thing.

 

[Deleted User]

Like I said earlier, 60fps is very much needed in games like shooters, racing games and fighters that require quick reactions, but a consistent 30 is generally more than playable. Modern LCD & Plasma displays generally have much more input lag than old CRTs, so 60fps is also needed to minimize that kind of thing.

Input lag =/= FPS
Many good fighting games are 25-30 FPS and I think I read something about Halo 3 being 30FPS once

 

[Taleweaver]

That's what I was talking about, no need to be snide.

Erm...okay?

Look...the more I read of your threads, the more I think you're making fun of the PC situation. It's either that, or you're completely missing the context. Getting a high FPS in itself isn't an achievement at all. As is mentioned somewhere: open up a game engine (say unrealED), create a boxed room, compile it and run it. There you go: even if you crank the settings all the way up and display it on a 4k television, you'll still have 60+ FPS on pretty much any rig up to five or even ten years old. For obvious reasons, these sort of scores don't mean shit when comparing today's games, as people are expecting more visual quality than an empty box.
Indy titles are made by small teams and pretty much by definition have lesser visual stuff going on (there are exceptions). As such, these don't count.

It's also a stupid remark to say that "modern games should play great on PS4's". That's not really true, as any developer can just throw so many visuals into a given view that it brings any hardware to its knees. It's always their job to ensure that this DOESN'T happen. And that should certainly be easier, yes. But developers are still competing in the "who has the nicest looking graphics"-contest, so it's only a matter of time before some guys push the limits.

 

[aofelix]

Yeah graphic whoring sadly is what sells games, therefore developers sacrifice fps over resolution.

 

[Hungry Friend]

Input lag =/= FPS
Many good fighting games are 25-30 FPS and I think I read something about Halo 3 being 30FPS once

Framerate isn't directly related to input lag but framerate hiccups fuck up timing and lower framerates= slower response time when putting a command in. I can't think of one serious fighting game(one that people play in tournaments) that doesn't run at 60fps, but if I'm wrong I'll admit it. Try playing 3rd Strike, KOF, Tekken or Virtua Fighter at 30fps. Your timing would be utterly fucked and the games would be nearly if not completely unplayable. 60fps is needed for serious fighting games.

 

[Deleted User]

Framerate isn't directly related to input lag but framerate hiccups fuck up timing and lower framerates= slower response time when putting a command in. I can't think of one serious fighting game(one that people play in tournaments) that doesn't run at 60fps, but if I'm wrong I'll admit it. Try playing 3rd Strike, KOF, Tekken or Virtua Fighter at 30fps. Your timing would be utterly fucked and the games would be nearly if not completely unplayable. 60fps is needed for serious fighting games.

Most Dragon Ball Z fighting games except 7th gen are 30FPS and Xenoverse is 30 FPS online except on PC version which needs to be set at 30 FPS to fix bugs anyway.
And I don't think 60FPS was a thing on 4th gen consoles.
And unless you have a 1/60th of a second chance to respond to something it doesn't matter if it's 60 or 30FPS. The human brain automatically fills in movement gaps. Though some games that are programmed to run at 60FPS might have game engine related issues on lower framerates if the devs never bothered to test sub 60FPS

 

[The Catboy]

4K with 240FPS
Because it just looks amazing.

 

[Taleweaver]

Yeah graphic whoring sadly is what sells games, therefore developers sacrifice fps over resolution.

...except that just about every PC game from this century has a way to lower the resolution, which means it's not the developer but the player who chooses what to sacrifice (fps, resolution or - if they shell out the most expensive graphic card(s) - their wallet).

On consoles, the importance of FPS usually isn't as high (a controller isn't as precise as a mouse and you're further away from the screen), which is probably the reason developers chose to lock it at a certain level (as said before: fluctuation is far more noticeable than consistency, even if it's consistently lower than an FPS that is only higher on average).

 

[aofelix]

...except that just about every PC game from this century has a way to lower the resolution, which means it's not the developer but the player who chooses what to sacrifice (fps, resolution or - if they shell out the most expensive graphic card(s) - their wallet).

On consoles, the importance of FPS usually isn't as high (a controller isn't as precise as a mouse and you're further away from the screen), which is probably the reason developers chose to lock it at a certain level (as said before: fluctuation is far more noticeable than consistency, even if it's consistently lower than an FPS that is only higher on average).

I'm referring to consoles not PCs, in terms of selling games in that comment.

The shitty adverts and crap gaming magazines which sell a butt load of titles all go off of graphic whoring to the 11-18 year old bracket.

I still think FPS is very important on consoles. Most of my PS3 games feel sluggish as shit and I hate it. If a PC port is available, I'll always opt for that and I play my PC games using a controller.

 

[Hungry Friend]

Most Dragon Ball Z fighting games except 7th gen are 30FPS and Xenoverse is 30 FPS online except on PC version which needs to be set at 30 FPS to fix bugs anyway.
And I don't think 60FPS was a thing on 4th gen consoles.
And unless you have a 1/60th of a second chance to respond to something it doesn't matter if it's 60 or 30FPS. The human brain automatically fills in movement gaps. Though some games that are programmed to run at 60FPS might have game engine related issues on lower framerates if the devs never bothered to test sub 60FPS

Casual fighters like the DBZ games can get away with 30 but if you tried to play Tekken, VF or 3rd Strike(or Smash Bros for that matter) at 30fps your timing would be completely fucked and high-level play would be nearly if not impossible. Precise timing is absolutely essential in fighting games especially when played at high levels so 60fps is an absolute must. I'm just average at those games but ensuring a consistent 60fps has been part of fighting game design since SF2 WW.(probably before but I don't know) 30fps for cinematic games? Totally cool with that because of the whole "movie magic" effect ie the bolded part of your quote. It needs to be a consistent 30 for the effect to work though.

 

[Deleted User]

Casual fighters like the DBZ games can get away with 30 but if you tried to play Tekken, VF or 3rd Strike(or Smash Bros for that matter) at 30fps your timing would be completely fucked and high-level play would be nearly if not impossible. Precise timing is absolutely essential in fighting games especially when played at high levels so 60fps is an absolute must. I'm just average at those games but ensuring a consistent 60fps has been part of fighting game design since SF2 WW.(probably before but I don't know) 30fps for cinematic games? Totally cool with that because of the whole "movie magic" effect ie the bolded part of your quote. It needs to be a consistent 30 for the effect to work though.

I wouldn't consider Budokai Tenkaichi or Xenoverse casual. Smash Bros on the other hand is casual, a party game even, which is the one issue I have with the new one as they tried too hard to appeal to the hardcore audience and made the AI difficult for people who played the previous 3 casually.

 

[sarkwalvein]

I wouldn't consider Budokai Tenkaichi or Xenoverse casual. Smash Bros on the other hand is casual, a party game even, which is the one issue I have with the new one as they tried too hard to appeal to the hardcore audience and made the AI difficult for people who played the previous 3 casually.

Erm... Smash Bros, specially previous versions (and Melee just in case)... casual?
Party games, for sure... but casual?
I think we are talking about different games.

 

[Deleted User]

Erm... Smash Bros, specially previous versions (and Melee just in case)... casual?
Party games, for sure... but casual?
I think we are talking about different games.

They were always meant to be casual
Note how Ridley was cut from Melee due to not being able to program his tail and this time it was being unable to make him a balanced character without ruining him

 

[Hungry Friend]

SF2 WW was meant to be casual from what I've heard & the combo system wasn't even intentionally implemented, so depth can be discovered in games that were meant to be quick quarter munchers or party games. I'm no expert when it comes to fighters but ask anyone who plays SF, Tekken, VF, DOA, KOF, SSB Guilty Gear etc. at a high level if 30fps would be acceptable for a serious, competitive fighter and you will get an absolute no every time. 60fps makes games that require pinpoint precision/timing much more responsive. Parrying in 3rd Strike with any consistency would be impossible at 30fps for example.

edit: One of the many reason 2d Mario and Megaman games are so responsive is that they target 60fps, although there is some flicker/slowdown, especially in the NES games. They're also very well designed but 30fps would also be unacceptable in, say, SMB3 and Mega Man X.

 

[Sakitoshi]

I think you all are missing a little big detail..... internal speed isn't the same as display speed.
games can run at a internal 60vps(vertical interrupts per second) but display only 30fps on the screen. a game programmed like that would take full advantage of 1/60 control precision.

Why would a game be programmed like that?!!?!!? why commit such blasphemy?!!?!?!
this way you can attain a rock solid 30fps and crank the graphics up without inconsistency AND you'll have all the benefits of "muh 1 frame botton prezz".

list of examples I can think off now:
Bioshock Infinite. on PS360, can be turned off.
Zelda's since Wind Waker.
Infamous Second Son. has an option to turn on a 30fps limiter.

 

[Hungry Friend]

I admit I'm not technically literate enough to really argue with you there, but I am skeptical that a fighting game like SF or Tekken would be playable in such a form. Wouldn't it still run slower, even if the controls are precise? 60fps has become such the standard for fighting games for so long that I doubt anything below 60fps in game would be accepted by serious players. Also 30fps looks jerky as fuck but cinematic games work well with it.(if they're well designed) Basically, I'd have to play SF or another fighter locked at 30fps to really know if that could work, but I don't really care about having better graphics if the framerate has to be sacrificed; not worth it imo.

 

[Sakitoshi]

Is only a thing of habit. you think 60 frames per second is the superior format for video, but tell that to cinephiles and they'll accuse you of blasphemy.
Is things where the other way around(I mean films at 60fps and games at 23.97fps) the same thing would happen.