Huawei now without Play Store and without ARM chips

Discussion in 'World News, Current Events & Politics' started by notimp, May 22, 2019.

  1. bodefuceta

    bodefuceta GBAtemp Regular

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    If they'd use open-source AOSP and store like f-droid on their phones, that'd be a HUGE win for the whole world.
    If they supported RISC-V, that'd be even bigger.
    Sadly I don't think they will. But at least open source is there to provide Huawei a solution if they wanted to. No one can stop anyone from using them.
    I'm not surprised ARM decided to do this. The problem is that they CAN. Hopefully it's a matter of time we stop trusting companies to hold critical technology proprietary-ly.
     
    Last edited by bodefuceta, May 22, 2019
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  2. ghjfdtg

    ghjfdtg GBAtemp Fan

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    It isn't even proven china does spy through Huawei. It's the usual Trump bullshit.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    Many big companies are member of RISC-V including Huawei themselves. Quite a few chinese companies plan to make RISC-V based SoCs. It's not unlikely we will see the first smartphones using RISC-V in the coming years.

    https://riscv.org/members-at-a-glance/
    https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/business/china-risc-v-consortium-50-members-2018-10/
     
  3. depaul

    depaul GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    That shows how powerful you are when you're the world leader in technology.

    I don't accuse neither defend Huawei. Sadly they can't do much about that. Using Google framework is a privilege, not a right. Huawei can use their own OS.

    Maybe their best bet is to comply with US regulations.
     
  4. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    Samsung washing machines is spying on you right now. They know what you wear. Run!


    There is a lot for them to want to spy on in South Korea, and the U.S. since they want the States help to combat North Korea. Samsung Vice Chairman also faced trials for using secret departments to funnel millions.


    Probably worse is the Chinese social credit system. And Britain more cameras per person then any other country except China. And they recently fined a person in Britain for hiding his face from cameras. No crime done, just hiding their face. Countries are becoming a massive surveillance state. Phones, Cameras, all watching you. No privacy.
     
    Last edited by SG854, May 22, 2019
  5. Viri

    Viri GBAtemp Addict

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    Try and not become another "Sri Lanka", tell Greece the same thing.
     
  6. supersonicwaffle

    supersonicwaffle GBAtemp Regular

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    I really don't understand why people oppose this.
    We do know that China will selectively modify hardware on specific orders to spy and that's for american brands having manufacturing in china. None of chinese manufacturing is safe for critical infrastructure. In my mind this also makes the notion it's not proven that Huawei is spying largely irrelevant, the suggestion that every piece of hardware or software can be comprehensively audited in this scale is laughable.

    Yes american companies will spy on you but there's a difference when it's between NATO countries and countries running intelligence programs against your interest.
     
  7. notimp
    OP

    notimp GBAtemp Addict

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    Actually entirely wrong. The hardware mod story was a hoax, that Bloomberg Business week fell for. Presumably because they had government sources which fed it to them. (The second sentence is entirely speculative.)

    Apart from that - Huawei in their 5G equipment has allowed for open sourcecode audits - even bevor Germany was calling for them, just during the sales patter.


    Real story goes something like this - "bugs" are always better as backdoors anyhow (deniability) - and no one can prevent bugs. If you have an updateinterface into an ecosystem - building in a hardware flaw is the least of your concerns.. ;)


    From the trade war perspective - the issue is effectively, that Huawei outpaced the US in terms of 5G equipment rollout. So they acttually are the market leader there.

    Thats why the US want to destroy them. Only then follows a potential mass intake of data angle. Which isnt proven - but every "analyst" likes to sell his speculation there as fact. (Where as Snowden presented facts.)
     
    Last edited by notimp, May 23, 2019
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  8. DBlaze

    DBlaze I don't know what i'm doing.

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    China bad, Murrica good.
    Ban on Cisco equipment when?

    Oh wait :unsure:
     
  9. supersonicwaffle

    supersonicwaffle GBAtemp Regular

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    Thanks for making me aware of this, seems like I haven't kept up with the story. For context: Bloomberg hasn't been fed this information by government source but by sources within the intelligence community, which has sorta been feuding with the administration.
    All companies involved and homeland security have been denying this has happened and there's really no way to confirm it. Calling it a hoax however, is like saying every journalistic piece that relies on anonymous sources is a hoax. As far as I can tell Bloomberg has refused to retract it and says multiple sources have corroborated the story.

    This is quite misleading. AFAIK the source code would be neither open nor free. It's a closed source where select entities are allowed to audit. This is a huge difference. Let's not forget that German telecom has an extremely sub-par telephony service that is a decade late to the party. I'm not gonna trust any audit performed by them. Verified independent audits will not really be possible.

    What a load of crap. That's a seriously idiotic assertion. It's like you don't even notice that you're contradicting your previous argument.

    Yup, still doesn't mean you should trust chinese companies so much as to put their equipment into core infrastructure that runs your entire country.
     
    Last edited by supersonicwaffle, May 23, 2019
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  10. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter

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    Heh...I considered creating a thread about this. I honestly couldn't tell how the outcome would be here on gbatemp.


    Here's a somewhat funny thing: near the end of last year, those first rumors started cropping up...just after my company had placed an order of about 50 huawei tablets. And as tablets for end users are always a popular thing, we ordered a new batch of 10...just two days after this announcement.

    Now...I'm not worried about that, really. They'll still get their security updates, and they already have their needed apps. "they won't get a future update of android" sounds scary, but really...how is that different from other companies? Google says that planning and pushing an update is the responsibility of the manufacturers, who are hesitant about it because they rather sell new stuff than maintain the already sold stuff. So in that regard, the only difference is that it's not Huawei's fault for ignorance.

    That said...not having a full android, no play store and no youtube is a big thing in the long run (or even the medium run, seeing how fast the telecom sector changes). But why? I mean...those first articles were a joke. If there really was "an extra chip the size of a rice pellet" on those things, then how come independent investigators can't find those damn things? There was an important huawei director arrested in Canada, but what was she really charged for? And just before huawei got denied all these things, the EU also published a "sorry: we can't find anything" paper. I could snear that google didn't find it, but I think they're just submitting to the pressure from the government.

    ...and that's where I'm weary about. Why is this ban on huawei actually happening? I mean...of course, Trump is an asshole who is willing to risk the US economy in the off-chance to squeeze something more out of it. But plenty of his nutjob ideas were shot down before they became even close to reality (remember that wall Mexico would pay for? Do you? Do you? :tpi:). But I'm not so sure that this is something pursued by Trump alone. In other words: there is a trade war because the people in power want a trade war. And it probably won't stop when Trump is impeached either. :unsure:
     
  11. bandithedoge

    bandithedoge GBAtemp Regular

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    Huawei has a long history of not being a really good company. Stealing secrets, not giving bootloader codes... This is the final nail in their coffin. If you want high quality and cheap phones from China, just buy Xiaomi or OnePlus.
     
  12. supersonicwaffle

    supersonicwaffle GBAtemp Regular

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    I think you're referring to the Bloomberg report I mentioned earlier. First of all it wasn't Huawei that was affected but supermicro which is an American company. The Report stated that the hardware was only manipulated for certain orders. According to the report Apple and Amazon received manipulated servers.
    All companies involved deny the claim and apparently the story closely matches a supply chain attack scenario described by an expert they interviewed for the piece. However, Bloomberg has not retracted the story despite Tim Cook demanding a retraction, Bloomberg is crediting multiple anonymous sources from the intelligence community that corroborated the story independently.
    All in all the story can't really be verified because of the limited scope of the alleged manipulation. If there is anything to it, nothing chinese manufactured could be trusted for critical infrastructure.

    On a political level no one really worries about smart devices, although it is something that may be mentioned because the average joe can relate to it. Huawei also manufactures network and infrastructure equipment, aside from the 5G stuff they also do switches, servers, etc. They have made big efforts to get a bigger market share in the server market in the past couple years.

    No one has had a problem with Lenovo which is Chinese and has bought IBM's PC and more recently IBM's server division. Apparently there's serious question regarding the influence of the Chinese government in Huawei.
    Either way it seems like you have to believe the conspiracy theory that Huawei is a Chinese Government controlled puppet to facilitate cyber intelligence operations or you have to believe the conspiracy theory that everything is made up by Trump to save US companies in the 5G race.

    For everyone else it's pick your poison and I'd rather pick the poison delivered by our NATO allies.
     
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  13. Flame

    Flame Me > You

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    stop trying to make UBports happen. it ain't going to happen.

    :P
     
  14. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter

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    So...just read that Trump implies that Huawei can be "part of the trade deal talks with China". Once again: when are you going to impeach this clown?

    Look...let's take this logically: this whole "huawei is spying up everyone" thing is either true or false. If it's true, then that's a crime. In that case, USA is correct in banning them in as much places as they can. And then I don't see how any of that is excusable or even part of a trade deal. What are you going to say to Chinese representatives? "yeah, we got you spying, but ey...if you meet our trade demands we'll happily let you continue. :) " ? Of course not.

    So the only alternative is that this whole thing isn't true. That would mean that China has either no idea of what huawei did, or that huawei is innocent to begin with. and that it's just Trump creating a trump card in the negotiation talks. He hopes to gain more than China is willing to give by starting to take something away from them. This, however, only works if China WANTS to keep trading with the USA. And while on the short term, they might not have an alternative, it's not the sort of situation that's sustainable in the long run (basically: "if we give in now, how do we know that he won't pull this same bullshit the next time he wants something?").

    Thanks for the clarification. :)

    It's basically as you claim: all there really is, is a bloomberg article by anonymous sources. And rather than assuming simple corporate espionage(1), it is portrayed as "it's the entirety of China versus the entirety of the USA".

    (1): this is assuming it's true to begin with. Unfortunately, the people smart enough to detect and trace this sort of thing are pretty likely to be direct (American) competitors who could use this to leverage external partners out of contracts

    That's a very good summary, yes. In 2003 or 2004, I remember a situation not unlike this one. The government then provided vague pictures as "proof" that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, which would warrant America the right for a "pre-emptive strike" (basically: attack another country without provocation from their side whatsoever). There were expert teams in Iraq searching for those things, but they simply could not find anything. That news wasn't heard (or believed) in America, so the attack began.
    There were no weapons of mass destruction. Much later, it was revealed that the agencies pushing it were pushed themselves into showing proof of things that were only "maybe" or "very potentially" traces of weapon manufacturing.

    How is this different? It's not Iraq but China and it's not weapons but spyware. But it's the same kind of "we cannot REALLY prove it, but you'll have to take our word for it".
    The only real difference is in the government. The USA was still seen as the victim of a terrorist attack at that time (btw: way to squander all your goodwill, USA). Nowadays, the USA's credibility is pretty much nothing. And that's all thanks to you-know-who: he lies and cries about being a victim so much that everyone not in his fan club has a "yeah...sure, buddy. It's all the fault of foreigners. And democrats. And black people. And your incompetent staff. And everyone not yourself"-attitude. So if I was a company (or a country controlling one) wishing to spy up on the USA, I wouldn't pass up the opportunity. I mean...even if I'd get caught: nobody would believe the main spokesman of the place. :tpi:
     
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  15. supersonicwaffle

    supersonicwaffle GBAtemp Regular

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    It’s not that easy, stopping all electronics manufacturing in China would have massive consequences for the US economy.

    By that you’re also suggesting that China limits its cyber operations efforts to their own boundaries or only use means outside of the supply chain. That’s very naive.


    Isn’t that the point of collectivism / communism? It’s not really a hard leap to make. It is an authoritarian regime after all.

    The problem here is the minuscule scale of it. Even if you were smart enough you still need access to the machines. If it was only on select orders they’re likely either destroyed or under seal.
    Data protection scandals bear the risk of a significant economic fallout. Just look at Facebook.

    And a lot of western countries didn’t buy their BS.
    This has a lot higher direct risk for western civilization and more specifically the EU attached to it.
    TBH I would have loved if the EU was competitive in this market but sadly it isn’t. The only somewhat promising company I can think of off the top of my head has been stuck in development hell with porting their stuff over from an ancient Linux kernel. And the we would still be missing 5G and other infrastructure technology.
     
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  16. Joe88

    Joe88 [λ]

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  17. notimp
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    notimp GBAtemp Addict

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    But what happens to my smartphone!? And no interest in that topic anymore.

    gbatemp - living fpr the watercooler moment of every newsitem - we dont care to follow up on any story.

    China has now hit back with "america doesnt need rare earths, doesnt it?" supply chain war announcements. There they are on the longer leaver.

    Ups. What does this mean for your smartphone?

    https://www.businessinsider.com/china-rare-earth-hint-trade-war-2019-5
    and
    http://fortune.com/2019/05/29/china-rare-earth-metals-trade-war/

    Follow up on stories, would you?

    Doesnt kill you to do that, does it?

    But 50% of you would still shout "fake news media" without showing an sign of media literacy. All just mostly interested in the emotional payoff of a story. Let it have babies in them. Then the engagement is high.
     
    Last edited by notimp, May 29, 2019
  18. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat

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    This isn't exactly the same topic, you've veered off to the trade war. Which I absolutely agree is dumb as shit, but there's nothing we can do about it except watch in horror while a man with a goldfish-sized brain sets up all our economic and trade policies to crash and burn. China is winning the trade war, and they still have a lot more cards left to play.
     
  19. tbb043

    tbb043 Member

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    who what? where do people even buy this shit from? random internet sites?
     
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