Hacking How legal is doing a a9lh service?

[Tony_93]

Lewis Galoob Toys, Inc. v. Nintendo of America, Inc.

What does that case have to do with anything I said???

The game genie is a cheating device, Nintendo sued Galoob in grounds that it was violating their copyright, the judge declared it didn't... Thanks to that other save dongles exist such as Powersaves pro for 3DS which is legally sold everywhere because it doesn't have Nintendo's copyrighted material anywhere.

It wasn't a piracy enabling device such as Gateway or Sky3ds which are ilegal because they violate copyright.

 

[Quantumcat]

What does that case have to do with anything I said???

The game genie is a cheating device, Nintendo sued Galoob in grounds that it was violating their copyright, the judge declared it didn't... Thanks to that other save dongles exist such as Powersaves pro for 3DS which is legally sold everywhere because it doesn't have Nintendo's copyrighted material anywhere.

It wasn't a piracy enabling device such as Gateway or Sky3ds which are ilegal because they violate copyright.

They don't have any of Nintendo's material in them either. By your logic SD cards should be illegal, they are used in the course of piracy also.

 

[Tony_93]

They don't have any of Nintendo's material in them either. By your logic SD cards should be illegal, they are used in the course of piracy also.

Oh really? ... Let's see:

Gateway clearly violates the DMCA by removing 3DS's DRM by using kernel exploits...

Sky3ds is an emulated cardtridge intended to fool 3DS's checks and pass as a legit game cardtridge in order play encrypted roms, even if you made your own backups in the USA is not legal, hence making it a pirated copy.

At what point a SD card does actively bypass any Nintendo's DRM check again?

Let me recap it for you again:

It also criminalizes the act of circumventing an access control (DRM),whether or not there is actual infringement of copyright itself

Sky3ds and Gateway both actively circumvent DRM, SD cards do not.

 

[Quantumcat]

Oh really? ... Let's see:

Gateway clearly violates the DMCA by removing 3DS's DRM...

Sky3ds is an emulated cardtridge intended to fool 3DS's checks and pass as a legit game cardtridge in order play encrypted roms = even if you made your own backups in the USA is not "legal", hence making it a pirated copy.

At what point a SD card does actively bypass any Nintendo's DRM check again?

Let me recap it for you again:



Sky3ds and Gateway both circumvent DRM, an SD card does not.

You can use Gateway to play homebrew compiled in .3ds. You can also use it for cheats on cartridge games. It's only use isn't piracy.
You can use SD cards to house roms on flashcarts and install .cia games on. How is it different?

 

[Tony_93]

You can use Gateway to play homebrew compiled in .3ds. You can also use it for cheats on cartridge games. It's only use isn't piracy.
You can use SD cards to house roms on flashcarts and install .cia games on. How is it different?

Oh for the love of GOD...

I'll quote it one last time for you and let's see if you finally see it:

It also criminalizes the act of circumventing an access control (DRM),whether or not there is actual infringement of copyright itself

The fact that these devices actively bypass DRM checks is what makes them ilegal, wether you actually pirate or not it doesn't matter, the DMCA criminalizes the DRM violation itself.

Yes, you can storage a rom or a .cia in an SD card, but the SD card itself won't bypass Nintendo's DRM to play it, your exploit/CFW will be the one violating the DRM, NOT THE SD CARD.

Do you really not see the difference here?

 

[gamesquest1]

Oh for the love of GOD...

I'll quote it one last time for you and let's see if you finally see it:



The fact that these devices actively bypass DRM checks is what makes them ilegal, wether you actually pirate or not it doesn't matter, the DMCA criminalizes the DRM violation itself.

Yes, you can storage a rom or a .cia in an SD card, but the SD card itself won't bypass Nintendo's DRM to play it, your exploit/CFW will be the one violating the DRM, NOT THE SD CARD.

Do you really not see the difference here?

well actually its the GW software that goes on the SD that bypasses the DRM, the GW card on itself does nothing, fairly similar to the arm9loaderhax file that you need on your SD

sky3ds on the other hard does bypass DRM by itself, but i think its all kinda pointless debating it, if nintendo wanted to sue anyone for doing it they could do so in the knowledge they would probably just win by default as the "offender" wouldn't have the money to form any sort of defense

 

[Quantumcat]

Oh for the love of GOD...

I'll quote it one last time for you and let's see if you finally see it:



The fact that these devices actively bypass DRM checks is what makes them ilegal, wether you actually pirate or not it doesn't matter, the DMCA criminalizes the DRM violation itself.

Yes, you can storage a rom or a .cia in an SD card, but the SD card itself won't bypass Nintendo's DRM to play it, your exploit/CFW will be the one violating the DRM, NOT THE SD CARD.

Do you really not see the difference here?

You can violate DRM by installing menuhax and putting luma.3dsx on your SD card. Same thing. The SD card allows you to circumvent DRM.

 

[OrGoN3]

On top of what everybody is saying, if you are providing the slot keys, or AES keys, then you are breaking additional laws (depending on your country), as those keys can be considered Nintendo's IP.

 

[Tony_93]

You can violate DRM by installing menuhax and putting luma.3dsx on your SD card. Same thing. The SD card allows you to circumvent DRM.

The SD card didn't allow you to circumvent the DRM in this example, the exploit you used to install Menuhax is what allowed you to cirmcumbent the DRM, having the necessary files in the SD card doesn't mean the SD card is the one bypassing the DRM, the exploit and files used are the ones doing it...

I will just drop it at this point, we are just going in circles here.

Have a good day

 

[Quantumcat]

files used

same for Gateway, without launcher.dat you're not going anywhere

 

[cearp]

Oh really? ... Let's see:
Gateway clearly violates the DMCA by removing 3DS's DRM by using kernel exploits...

does the hardware card do this or the software...?
i'll let you answer that one

law is very complex, that is why we have lawyers, and it's many times at the judges discretion.

oops @gamesquest1 already brought this up!

 

[Redferne]

does the hardware card do this or the software...?
i'll let you answer that one

law is very complex, that is why we have lawyers, and it's many times at the judges discretion.

oops @gamesquest1 already brought this up!

It doesn't matter they can't work without the other. You can argue that the card is not illegal because without the software it does nothing but, well... it does nothing then

 

[Deleted member 333767]

Nintendos in-house swat team aren't going to bust down your door and trash your house whilst seizing your equipment because you provide an A9LH service.

At most you'll get a love letter (a.k.a cease and desist) which can be dealt with by simply filing it under R (R = rubbush bin) and carry on making money from allowing the rightful owner of an electronic device to use it how they see fit.

 

[Redferne]

Nintendos in-house swat team aren't going to bust down your door and trash your house whilst seizing your equipment because you provide an A9LH service.

At most you'll get a love letter (a.k.a cease and desist) which can be dealth with by simply filing it under R (R = rubbush bin) and carry on making money from allowing the rightful owner of an electronic device to use it how they see fit.

Once again being the rightful owner of something doesn't allow you to make an illegal use of it.
Because it is very unlikely you'll be sued, doesn't make it legal either.

We're discussing the legality of things here not if you'll get sued or not.

 

[3DSDude_]

Guys, no one here will judge you if you violate your 3DS system for using homebrews or just for pirating games. Just, don't think that those actions are legal, because they aren't at all. The choice is all up to you: doing something illegal but having the freedom to do what you want with your device, or staying within the law and just use your device for the intended purposes.

 

[cearp]

It doesn't matter they can't work without the other. You can argue that the card is not illegal because without the software it does nothing but, well... it does nothing then

yeah, maybe that is how the law works. like a gun, you need someone to shoot it.
i don't know how these laws work, it really not simple. it takes years to learn all this stuff to understand it and even so it laws are not perfect that is why the judge is there. - and every judge won't give the same verdict either!
i'm just trying to get others to realize that it's not so simple and you can't just say 'gateway is illegal'.

 

[Redferne]

yeah, maybe that is how the law works. like a gun, you need someone to shoot it.
i don't know how these laws work, it really not simple. it takes years to learn all this stuff to understand it and even so it laws are not perfect that is why the judge is there. - and every judge won't give the same verdict either!
i'm just trying to get others to realize that it's not so simple and you can't just say 'gateway is illegal'.

The funniest part is the law is different depending on the country you live in.
But let's not fooling ourselves. If at some point a device or a software allow piracy it will be at best in the grey area of the law.

 

[cearp]

The funniest part is the law is different depending on the country you live in.
But let's not fooling ourselves. If at some point a device or a software allow piracy it will be at best in the grey area of the law.

sure i know. i'm not sure if it is still the case but wasn't digital piracy stuff like completely legal/non-illegal in canada? lol i thought that was so funny...
i had a conversation with someone, they said well yeah piracy is illegal, and i was like, ok, drive across the border, download it, and drive back.

(and even so, some countries citizens are subject to the laws of their country even when they are not in it. i know australia has something a little like that, something not related to copyright at all, a different law and it's arguably for a good reason)

 

[Redferne]

sure i know. i'm not sure if it is still the case but wasn't digital piracy stuff like completely legal/non-illegal in canada? lol i thought that was so funny...
i had a conversation with someone, they said well yeah piracy is illegal, and i was like, ok, drive across the border, download it, and drive back.

(and even so, some countries citizens are subject to the laws of their country even when they are not in it. i know australia has something a little like that, something not related to copyright at all, a different law and it's arguably for a good reason)

That doesn't work. Let say drugs are legal in Canada, you can buy some there but it still doesn't make it legal in the US when you come back.

 

[Deleted member 333767]

Once again being the rightful owner of something doesn't allow you to make an illegal use of it.
Because it is very unlikely you'll be sued, doesn't make it legal either.

We're discussing the legality of things here not if you'll get sued or not.

Taken from the "modding" wikipedia article. The citation is now offline should anybody want to check the source.

"However it is also worthy of note that some other European countries have not interpreted the legal issues (of console modding) in the same way. In Italy a judge threw out a Sony case saying it was up to owners of a console what they did with it"